lookinforwalleye Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Oh, my!....What have I done? Amazing how arguments came ascend from a mere thread about fishing lures? Let's see, hmmmm.......How about: Bombardier rocks, and Arctic cat sucks? LOL don`t sweat it happens here all the time, another good one is telling all the E-Tec owners that Opti-Max is better!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTHM Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 LOL don`t sweat it happens here all the time, another good one is telling all the E-Tec owners that Opti-Max is better!!! Well, that is because it is a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregoire Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 People get paid to promote a product. That's business (and I'm fine with that). People are overly sensitive when this is pointed out. That's incongruous. I'm confuse by your use of such a complicated word. By incongruous I think you mean that our reaction is inappropriate, in that case who are you to judge? Or as you saying that I am acting against my principle? In that case I hope you can help me find them. In all seriousness I think that Grimace has a point, but his comments came off in a way that he did not intend them. As fishing junkies we all realize that pros get paid to endorse product, at least Dave had the class to back up his praise. On a popular forum like this, at this time of year people can be overly sensitive, as Mercman pointed out. I need to go fishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solopaddler Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I'm confuse by your use of such a complicated word. By incongruous I think you mean that our reaction is inappropriate, in that case who are you to judge? Or as you saying that I am acting against my principle? In that case I hope you can help me find them. In all seriousness I think that Grimace has a point, but his comments came off in a way that he did not intend them. As fishing junkies we all realize that pros get paid to endorse product, at least Dave had the class to back up his praise. On a popular forum like this, at this time of year people can be overly sensitive, as Mercman pointed out. I need to go fishing. No, by incongruous I think he means the two trains of thought don't jive. You can't on one hand promote a product then get your hackles up when criticised. I have no problem with anybody btw. I've never watched Daves show, but he comes across as being pretty genuine and I'm sure he's a great guy. You can't fake that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickingfrog Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) Others have passed judgement. As to the meaning of words, they can be searched so easily as to render them accessible to even the most obtuse. Edited March 2, 2011 by kickingfrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercman Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Others have passed judgement. As to the meaning of words, they can be searched so easily as to render them accessible to even the most obtuse. shakespeer i bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickingfrog Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Not even an ugly stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solopaddler Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 shakespeer i bet or britneyspeers take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickingfrog Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) The ugly stick line still applies... and rhymes. Edited March 2, 2011 by kickingfrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehg Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Dave's not here man! Nor will he read the last few pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Familyfisherman Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 As granny used to say...fishing lures mostly catch fisherman...I've used a few of the live target lures and enjoyed very good success. I especially like the crawfish wakebait -- smallies love it...unfortunately so do muskies, so I have trouble keeping them for long, and at $14 each it can get expensive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singingdog Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Grimace, You did nothing wrong. You stated your opinion in a respectful, nonpersonal way (one of the functions of a public discussion board). Bit of a hair trigger on Mr. Mercer. Happens all the time on this board when folks confuse the difference between a public discussion forum and a private website. IMHO ,if you make your living promoting stuff, you should be a bit more gracious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiel Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Happens all the time on this board when folks confuse the difference between a public discussion forum and a private website. This is a private website owned by the Administrators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhunter Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I can tell you I have over 20 of them on my charter boat. The guys that have been out with me on the bay for walleye know they work well. Like any lure some days they work some days they just get washed. But its a tool I would not be with out. ps I dont get paid to say they are good but maybe I should lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADB Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 This is a private website owned by the Administrators. There is a difference between a private site where one can post their opinions knowing full well that there won't be any direct discourse, and a website that features a discussion forum where opinions will obviously be...well, discussed. Whether or not the forum is technically private isn't really the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outllaw Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 all baits are tools. koppers has an excellent finish. as some know i build lures and custom paint. its nice to see a canadian product appear. every one has a go to confidence lure in their tackle box. they do look to be an excellent walleye and bass lure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) Whatever bait gives YOU confidence is the key. I have used these baits, are they my cup of tea, No. But to be fair, I haven't given them a fair shake, I rely on ole faithful. I am a fan of Lucky Crafts, why, becasue I have confidence in them. I know if I find fish, they will put them in the boat. If I was offred a potential sponsored deal with Koppers, then hey, I'd have to get confidence in them and probably would if I spent the time trying. Besides, as many many avid fisherfolks agree, it is getting on the fish that is the important part. A lure is simply your tool to get them in the boat. Fish see shilouettes, remember that. Unless you are simply on a cast and catch lake. Then a five of diamonds is killer!!!! lol... Edited March 2, 2011 by Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesn Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Grimace, you went and stereotyped all "pros" with the same brush. You basically said their loyalty and opinion is bought and paid for and thus not worth anything. You equated their honesty to that of a 3-dollar bill. You did that directly after the biggest fishing celebrity in Canada took the time out of a ridiculously busy schedule to post his expert opinion on a bait he probably has more hours with than any of us tenfold. Maybe, just maybe, somebody that fishes for a living can provide some insight on a bait without it being all about the almighty dollar. Maybe in the way he has supported this forum and contributed to it he has earned the privilege of being allowed to put in his opinion without basically being called a shill, a spammer or a flat out liar until proven so. And if your stereotyping was true - why would ANY pro or anyone with a stake in the fishing industry ever come on here and give their expert opinion? I mean if all pros were flat out shills, their input would be rejected en masse. After all, we're not stupid. Fool me once shame on you - fool me twice I'd rather have to fish a whole season with nothing but the Badonkadonk. There are pros that I would believe when they say what they used and how they won an event. Because I've been there and seen what they were using and saw that they said exactly what it was. Then there are others - George Cochran comes to mind - that have proven they are flat out liars. He got caught trying to claim he caught fish on a sponsor lure when in fact he was using a competitor's product. Stuff like that doesn't get forgotten - at least not by me. But then you also have times like Aaron Martens (a Megabass Pro) admitting he was using the Strike King KVD square bill - in the same colour as KVD at the recent classic. I think until a man has proven that he isn't worthy of the trust - why not give it to him? Especially when he is one of our own and doesn't have a history of shilling. Now perhaps you didn't mean it personally - but then what was the point of your post? Basically that you don't want anyone that is a "pro" to respond to any threads involving a bait? I mean what if it was a bait they designed? Should Kulik not respond to any slammer or swammer questions? I'm at a loss as to what productive value a post like yours has assuming it was not meant as a direct slap against the pros that had already posted. Frankly I don't have a stake in OFC - I'm a regular lurker but not one of the "regulars" if you know what I mean - but the above is my honest view on it. Mercer or any other pro posting here or not is not going to affect me coming here. I guess I gotta admit I don't see much positive on them posting on these types of open forums as they do have something to lose so what they can gain is often offset by the time sink of dealing with haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PainInTheBass Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Grimace, you went and stereotyped all "pros" with the same brush. You basically said their loyalty and opinion is bought and paid for and thus not worth anything. You equated their honesty to that of a 3-dollar bill. You did that directly after the biggest fishing celebrity in Canada took the time out of a ridiculously busy schedule to post his expert opinion on a bait he probably has more hours with than any of us tenfold. Maybe, just maybe, somebody that fishes for a living can provide some insight on a bait without it being all about the almighty dollar. Maybe in the way he has supported this forum and contributed to it he has earned the privilege of being allowed to put in his opinion without basically being called a shill, a spammer or a flat out liar until proven so. And if your stereotyping was true - why would ANY pro or anyone with a stake in the fishing industry ever come on here and give their expert opinion? I mean if all pros were flat out shills, their input would be rejected en masse. After all, we're not stupid. Fool me once shame on you - fool me twice I'd rather have to fish a whole season with nothing but the Badonkadonk. There are pros that I would believe when they say what they used and how they won an event. Because I've been there and seen what they were using and saw that they said exactly what it was. Then there are others - George Cochran comes to mind - that have proven they are flat out liars. He got caught trying to claim he caught fish on a sponsor lure when in fact he was using a competitor's product. Stuff like that doesn't get forgotten - at least not by me. But then you also have times like Aaron Martens (a Megabass Pro) admitting he was using the Strike King KVD square bill - in the same colour as KVD at the recent classic. I think until a man has proven that he isn't worthy of the trust - why not give it to him? Especially when he is one of our own and doesn't have a history of shilling. Now perhaps you didn't mean it personally - but then what was the point of your post? Basically that you don't want anyone that is a "pro" to respond to any threads involving a bait? I mean what if it was a bait they designed? Should Kulik not respond to any slammer or swammer questions? I'm at a loss as to what productive value a post like yours has assuming it was not meant as a direct slap against the pros that had already posted. Frankly I don't have a stake in OFC - I'm a regular lurker but not one of the "regulars" if you know what I mean - but the above is my honest view on it. Mercer or any other pro posting here or not is not going to affect me coming here. I guess I gotta admit I don't see much positive on them posting on these types of open forums as they do have something to lose so what they can gain is often offset by the time sink of dealing with haters. Great post, and very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercman Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I have always said that in an all text communication, the real meaning of a conversation may be lost. tone of voice and facial expressions bring alot into a conversation.I re read G's post at least 6 times, and got 6 different feelings about what he typed.After thinking about it, i cant see anything fundamentally wrong with a word he typed.He TYPED his response, he did not SAY a thing. I am sure that what he said as he was typing, is not at all how we have interpreted it. IMHO Moral.....READ what is typed, Dont read what is SAID. And THINK before jumping to conclusions.This is what i have learned to do from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I don't know Dave Mercer from Adam but he seems to be a nice guy to spend a few moments sharing some fishing info with the rest of us.....he wasn't paid to do that I would assume. But with all that said I know for a fact one MAJOR fishing celebrity that LIED through his teeth promoting his new "Shadling" lure while salmon fishing in Devils Hole in the lower Niagara River. It was a slow day and only one salmon was caught on a Kwickfish but when the show aired he swore that his "Shadling" out fished all other lures 4 - 1....some guys just don't have any principles when it comes to money.... My old fishing buddy's father had a saying "all fishermen are liars except you and me, and I have my doubts about you"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 at this point I see both sides of it at first I agreed 100% with Grimace and his right to state his opinion but Dave did not have to come here and give his opinion of them his sponsor certainly had no expectations of him hitting fish forums to highlight ttheir products.. I see it as Dave has been a good friend to this website and posted his opinion of a product... this was not a tv commercial or during a talk at a seminar .. so I will take him at his word but I still have no problem with people/Grimace stating his opinion, which as a discussion board we have discussed and people have get to make up their minds on what they believe the truth is as I have done from this interesting thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiel Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I don't know Dave Mercer from Adam but he seems to be a nice guy to spend a few moments sharing some fishing info with the rest of us.....he wasn't paid to do that I would assume. He's all that and more and that's not a contrived opinion, I have spent some time in his company over ........ uh .......drinks. at this point I see both sides of it As do I Terry and as long as long as opinions are stated without personal insult or malice they'll stay. We all have them (opinions) as y'all know! Where's my Advil.... (is that spam....LOL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Just my .02, I have no issues with Dave offering an opinion on these baits, or any others. But I do see why some would be skeptical. Pro fishermen do this all the time though, and it's a part of their livelyhood, and thats respectable. Until an angler has obviously lied about something, we should take them at their word IMO. Even us anglers do the same thing all the time, right? Anyhow, about the baits. I think there crafted very well, and the price reflects the product. I have no issues paying a few extra dollars for a bait that cost money to produce in quality. I've used some of these baits in the past 8 months, and I like them. They definitely have their place in the tackle box. But, for a man that mainly fishes a stained river, they don't produce as good as other cranks etc for me. The realistic patterns are great, for clear water. When I tried them on clear bodies of water, they worked great, but so did about 20 other baits. One thing I did that worked very well was shallow trolling the perch bait for walleyes, and that was alot of fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I am sure Mr. Koppers is lovin the free pub!!! Before this thread I never thought twice about live target!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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