Towing Concerns

[Jigger]

I drive to and from the cottage with a 14ft behind on a regular basis. My "tow vehicle" is a Chevy Cavalier. The only thing I recommend is give yourself more room than you think you need between you and the guy in front of you. Stick to the lower gears and drive the speed limit. You'll get people passing you with choice words on busy days, but better to be safe than sorry.

[vance]

The recomended towing weights are based on the cars brakes not the engine and tranny.You have to be able to stop within specific distances to be legal.The simple addition of some sort of braking system on the trailer greatly increases the towing capacity of any vehical and from experience I know decreases the WHITE KNUCKLE factor.

 

 

vance

[Tybo]

You can tow with ever you want.

If you don't give a crap about peoples safety.

14HP lawn tractor will tow a 40' boat.

 

If I had to tow with a car, I defiantly would up grade the car and trailer.

I would install trailer brakes,Tranny and oil coolers.Heavier coils and coil over

shocks in the back. Also likely up grade to ceramic brakes.

 

In my opinion if you want to tow any thing. It should done in a Truck.

[aplumma]

To me the best tow vehicle is the one were you don't relize that you are towing anything. I once towed a 20 foot fiberglass boat with a 90 hp on it with a CJ5 with a big V8. I also once almost killed myself when I had to slam on the brakes and the jeep was pushed sideways by the boat thank goodness for road shoulders or I would be dead. The good news is my lesson was learned without any penalty. I now tow a 2,500 boat with a 9,900 rated truck and it feels good not to worry if I can get out of a dangerous situation.

 

 

Art

[cisco]

Sorry, I had been slunked away hiding at work. All good information to know. Lots of speculation still, even though I as well as the rest of you have opinion as to who is right re the weight inclusion question. Perhaps best to talk to the MOT and if viable have the brakes upgraded along Tybo and Vance's line and perhaps do the trailer brake thing to safely comply with the laws and vehicle towing capacity.

 

On a lighter note you could shed weight off things by temporarily removing unused seats, doors and quarter panels.

Now yer talking the Clampet mobile! Years ago we'd use roof racks to get the 12-14 ft tinny to the lake and toss the outboard in the trunk. Always drove extra cautiously and along with a cazillion other folks got there and back safely.

 

Not everyone is able to justify getting a womping big truck to tow with. Nice to here ways for a car owner to get by to go fishing. Appreciate that.

[Fisherman]

Sorry, I had been slunked away hiding at work. All good information to know. Lots of speculation still, even though I as well as the rest of you have opinion as to who is right re the weight inclusion question.

 

Sorry Cisco, but your opinion or speculation as you call it doesn't count when it comes to facts. Ask a few of those that suffered because they listened to someone who didn't know. Check with the vehicle MFGR when it comes to towing. I've said enough on this one.

[pikehunter]

the vehicle MFGR when it comes to towing

 

That really is a good place to start. But do not forget to take all passengers, all baggage including gear, all fuel. food, boat motor, trailer, and all passengers into account. Then add it all up and compare it to the recommended max capacity! I said it before as others have. It will add up to a larger sum than you think.

 

Safety, safety,safety!!! It is just not you alone out there on the 400 heading to your favourite fishing hole. I knew a guy back in the 60's that cartopped a 12'er on the roof of a '64 VW beetle. Just because he did it and went to Temagami frequently doesn't mean it was right or it was safe.

 

Your tow vehicle has to be able to accommodate all these factors. If you ignore any of them it will one day bight you right in the ass!

[cisco]

Maybe this'll help you Fisherman. MOT stands for Ministry of Ontario Transport. They have the allowances for Ontario. They can give facts, not speculation as comes from all of us including you. Reread the post to be clear on wat I said and quit being insulting. Have a nice day too.

[Mike the Pike]

Ok I think that this thread is getting too many concerns for nothing.I pull an 18 foot Lund SSV all Aluminium boat with a heavy 50hp four stoke.Total weight 887lbs Boat motor and trailer.Although I pull it with a V6 Honda odessey I don't even notice the big tinny is there until I turn a corner.I tell you a little Honda civic can pull my boat with ease.I move up it up and down my driveway by hand no problemo.Remember this boat is pointed at the front so it will have less wind drag than a house trailer.650lbs for a Saturn vue is not going to kill it.All 4 cylinder vehicules have to work harder to climb hills because they lack the tork of a larger engine.I had a 16 foot fiberglass boat weighing almost 2000lbs and I pulled up very steep hills all the way to Mont-Laurier Quebec .All I had was a ford Taurus wagon with 145hp.I got up the hills.I just never pushed the car to hard.Most of you guys are recommending this guy buy a mack truck to pull 14 foot bathtub with a motor.As for breaking distance that is common sence to keep your distance with a trailer.As for installing trailer brakes for 650lbs notttttttttttttt!.I pulled a 1200 pound tent trailer no trailer brakes with the Taurus and the odessey no brakes required again I say just keep your distance far.Last year I upgrated the tent trailer to a larger model that weighs 2614lbs empty now I have the brakes.Huey Just put the hitch on the Saturn.If its a real stuggle sell it and buy a V6.If your friends weigh too much take 2 cars on the fishing trip.Remember this is a 14 foot tinny with a few bells and whisles Not a Carnival cruise Liner.Of course bigger stronger is better. Huey just wants to know if the Saturn will do the job . Enough said don't buy a freightliner with air brakes.MTP

Edited March 12, 2007 by Mike the Pike

[huey graphite]

First of all I want to thak everyone for your input, whether you suggested it was OK or whether you did not recommend using either of the vehicles I currently have.

 

Your suggestions will all be taken into consideration. For those of you in disgreement with one another, I hope you respect the information being provided by the others even though it may contradict your opinion.

 

Safety will be priority. I am not willing to jeopardize my safety, the safety of my family or others on the road.

 

The previous owner of my boat and trailer towed it with a 4 cylinder Acura Integra with no incidents. Does not mean it is absolutely safe. He did know not to speed and leave plenty of room for braking.

 

Most of my trips will be under 1 city block as I live about 100 meters from the lauch at Fifty Point. 3 or 4 times a year may launch out of Crystal Beach or Port Colborne.

 

Ironically, my wife now tells me she wants to get rid of the Saturn Ion she's owned for 3 weeks. Almost resulted in a Domestic.

 

HG

[charlesn]

Huey, one thing to think about it, if you have a front wheel drive vehicle, that will be better than a rear wheel drive when pulling the boat out of the water. In the summer, the algae on the ramps can cause for a slippery situation. I've always towed with a 4x4 and there have been times where I would have been in big trouble without it, but a front wheel drive would've probably been the same. I have seen big trucks with V8's, 300 HP and 400 ft-lbs of torque stuck on a ramp and needing a bunch of us bouncing up and down on the tail-gate to get traction.

 

Sugar loaf and Crystal are usually fine. I can't comment on Fifty Point.

 

As far as tow capacities and what not, there is a lot of good advice above.

 

Best of luck,

 

Charles

[Mike the Pike]

Huey, one thing to think about it, if you have a front wheel drive vehicle, that will be better than a rear wheel drive when pulling the boat out of the water. In the summer, the algae on the ramps can cause for a slippery situation. I've always towed with a 4x4 and there have been times where I would have been in big trouble without it, but a front wheel drive would've probably been the same. I have seen big trucks with V8's, 300 HP and 400 ft-lbs of torque stuck on a ramp and needing a bunch of us bouncing up and down on the tail-gate to get traction.

 

Sugar loaf and Crystal are usually fine. I can't comment on Fifty Point.

 

As far as tow capacities and what not, there is a lot of good advice above.

 

Best of luck,

 

Charles

 

Well charles I would have to disagree with the front wheel drive for a boat launch.I have a front wheel drive Odessey if the launch is dry pavement I do not have a problem.if the launch is gravel.the front wheel starts digging a hole.If its wet its useless.A good set of traction aids slipped uner the wheels can help.

 

when you have tongue weight at the back of your front wheel drive it will hinder the traction to the front wheels.

 

With weight on a rear wheel drive (the tongue weight)this will help the rear wheels gain traction.I can not wait for the day I no longer launch with a front wheel drive.When the boat ramp sucks so does the front wheel drive.believe me its useless.

[pikehunter]

Most of my trips will be under 1 city block as I live about 100 meters from the lauch at Fifty Point. 3 or 4 times a year may launch out of Crystal Beach or Port Colborne.

 

So then you are probably more concerned with the cars ability to drag the boat up the ramp then it's actual ability to tow distances? You owned a Windstar, right? Was that your tow vehicle before? If so and it could pull the boat up the ramp then why would the Saturn not be able to do it? Both are front wheel drive, and the Windstar is nothing but a front wheel drive station wagon and not a truck anyway.

 

So then if you are only a block from the ramp and you are not going to drag your boat any distance then do it. After the first couple of attempts you will have your question answered.

[Nanook]

The recomended towing weights are based on the cars brakes not the engine and tranny.You have to be able to stop within specific distances to be legal.The simple addition of some sort of braking system on the trailer greatly increases the towing capacity of any vehical and from experience I know decreases the WHITE KNUCKLE factor.

vance

 

When you purchase a vehicle with a "Tow package", They dont put bigger brakes on for you. While brakes on a trailer are a definate +, I dont understand your statement re;' the towing abilities are based on the size of ths vehicle brakes'Wanna run this by me again?

[Tybo]

I get it now.

My truck weighs 7200lbs, The GVWR is 9200lbs.

the truck is capable of hauling 2700lbs.

the max tow weight is 16700lbs.

The max braking distance at 60mph is 190'.

 

Now I have 2100lbs of top soil in the back(using top soil as a reference because it wont move)

also towing a 5000lbs trailer with a 11000lb back hoe on it.

 

So now what you are telling me. That with out trailer brakes, a exhaust brake and Jake brake.

That the guy in the civic that just powered brake in front of at 60mph and 200' away

will be safe and cozie. Because I'll get my truck stop.

 

I don't think so.

[charlesn]

Never realized it would be a problem with FWD. Maybe 4x4 is the only way to be really sure that you'll be able to get up the ramp.

 

The only vehicles I have ever seen stuck at a ramp were rear-wheel drive though. Good to know that about front wheel drives.

 

I guess I will stick to 4x4s and bending over at the gas pumps to enjoy my hobby.

 

Charles

[cisco]

If the tires slip at the ramp some folks recommend keeping a small pail of cat litter, road salt, sand/gravel mix in the trunk. I'm not sure that cat litter is best for the environment, but a small pail of sand with a bit of gravel in it should get you out re algae or wet ramp or even a bit of ice.

[Greencoachdog]

If the tires slip at the ramp some folks recommend keeping a small pail of cat litter, road salt, sand/gravel mix in the trunk. I'm not sure that cat litter is best for the environment, but a small pail of sand with a bit of gravel in it should get you out re algae or wet ramp or even a bit of ice.

 

 

 

 

Cat litter is dried clay.

 

Why worry with and go thru all the hassel of trying to tow with an unsuitable vehicle?

 

Towing concerns should be a priority when a vehicle is purchased, if you're a trailered boat owner.

 

Towing with an improper vehicle puts excess strain and wear on an unsuitable vehicle, resulting in costly repair bills and an accelerated maintainence schedule... not to mention the hazardous safety aspects!

 

... anybody that tries to argue these points doesn't really know what they're talking about.

[Chris]

Why worry with and go thru all the hassel of trying to tow with an unsuitable vehicle?

 

Towing concerns should be a priority when a vehicle is purchased, if you're a trailered boat owner.

 

Towing with an improper vehicle puts excess strain and wear on an unsuitable vehicle, resulting in costly repair bills and an accelerated maintainence schedule... not to mention the hazardous safety aspects!

 

... anybody that tries to argue these points doesn't really know what they're talking about.

 

I don't really see anyone suggesting to tow with an unsuitable vehicle.....if the weight of your trailer and equipment is less than the towing capacity of the vehicle why would anyone spend money to upgrade. Why would automakers list a towing capacity on a car if cars were not suitable for towing as someone else has suggested. C'mon, this guy is talking about towing a 14' aluminum boat w/15hp motor and some are suggesting beefed up suspension, brakes, oil and tranny coolers, etc., etc. Some of you guys must be mechanics they way you are selling expensive auto upgrades. I can see adding a tranny cooler for automatic transmissions (approx. $100 to $150 installed) that's about it. As far as safety, whether your under your towing capacity or not, extra distance is required to stop....anyone towing/driving like a maniac because they feel safe with upgrades is just as much a danger on the road as someone pulling under their limit without upgrades. Adding upgrades may give some a false sense of security......kinda like the SUV owners that drive like idiots on icy roads because they have 4WD.

[Steve]

charles, you were 100% correct when referring to the characteristics of a front wheel drive car.

 

I launched my boat with my lumina front wheel car while i watched pickup trucks with no weight in the back slide all over the place....just like you mentioned. I'm sure ANYONE on here who has launched on the NIagara River in the winter has witnessed the same....

 

I felt really silly after waiting half an hour for a 1500 sized pickup to get their boat outta the water, only after putting 10 guys in the back of the truck....then i would pull up in my car, get the word "ya better be careful, you just saw what happened to me and my truck", then pull up, drive the boat onto the trailer, and because my front wheels were on the top of the launch, above the grade, i would just drive right up....

 

Had i had rear wheel drive, i would have been like all the 2 wheel drive trucks, and spin my rear wheels, that were right at the water's edge....

 

So yes, charles, what you observed is 100% dead on.

[Tybo]

Yes I am a mechanic.

In fact I'm a master mechanic. which is the highest license

that you can get in the trade.

Also have countless SAFETY certificates.

I always teach SAFETY is job one. But with out communication there is no SAFETY.

So if you DON'T want to listen to me thats your fault,an hopefully the people around you won't

have to suffer for it..

It's nice that you did this and that and got away with it. Still doesn't make it SAFE or RIGHT.

 

I agree with GCD 100%.

 

THe fact is that most people don't use commen sence.

[Chris]

Sorry about that Tybo, I had no idea you were a mechanic when I posted.

 

As I mentioned I had a car with a 1000 lb. towing capacity and the rig with equipment included weighed approx. 750 lbs. You're telling me I'm unsafe?!?!?! I guess the manufacturers rating is wrong/unsafe then too??? Can you explain how I was putting others in danger???

 

I don't believe I ever said it was OK to tow more than the vehicles capacity. Extra shocks and coilovers??? On a 1,000lb. rig the toungue weight should only be 100lbs. anyway you need beefed up suspension for that???

 

I agree 100% that most people don't use common sense. I got passed by a guy in a F-150 towing a 14' tinny. Not only was he way over the speed limit but the back of the trailer was swaying violently from side to side all the way down the road. More than enough towing capicty, but not enough common sense to properly adjust the tongue weight and/or tire pressure and to slow down. That braking Honda you mentioned wouldn't had a chance with this clown either.

[Joey]

..oops.. wrong log in.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Joey

[Tybo]

The GVWR is a government rating on the vehicle not the manufactures.

 

For every pound you put in or on the tow vehicle you lose in tow capacity.

 

100lb tongue weight. the wife 120lbs. the two kids 140lbs and what ever else

you stuff in there.

 

looks to me that your over.

 

HAVE A NICE DAY.

[PERCHER]

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