Is this fair?? I think not....

[TJQ]

I don't know why this stuff surprises me. Every time there is a change in gov't, some money goes out to small localities to build these eco-centers.. first it was Mattawa and then one popped up in Elk Lake. They are supposed to be a conference and meeting center, but soon they realize that they cant stay afloat doing that and then start to market their accommodations.... much to the detriment of local outfitters.

 

The Elk Lake Eco Center is doing exactly that, here is a quote from a letter I received.

 

The Elk Lake Eco Resource Centre was built with government funding to operate as a conference and learning centre. The funding was granted with the agreement to not compete with local business offering the same services. None of this funding was provided with the intent for the Centre to compete with other tourist operators. Unfortunately, the Eco Centre has chosen to disregard the non-compete, and has noticeably increased theirmarketing efforts toward ATVs, snowmobilers , and other traditional tourist products. There is nothing education-related in these endeavours. Included is a new website promoting overnight accommodations, ATV and snowmobile packages, radio advertising targeting snowmobilers, signs on the OFSC trails, and listings on tourist websites such as Ontario s Wilderness Region (among others).

 

As far as I know the centers original contract said that it was not supposed to in any way harm or hinder local businesses. It was supposed to be a meeting and conference center. Now its DIRECTLY competing with Lodges and Outfitters, taking much needed business in these tough times away.

 

It has to stop. How would you feel if the government opened a business next to yours, brand new state of the art buildings and equipment, with your tax dollars, and then competed with you.

 

Really doesn't seem fair to me. The outfitters have raised their concerns.. maybe its time for the public (yes thats you..) to as well. have a look at the site and make your own decision and maybe email them with a question or two??

 

http://www.elklakeeco.com - [email protected]

[bigugli]

Should know by now that most government agreements aren't worth the paper written on. Abiding by any agreement is a matter of convenience and expedience. Obviously it is no longer financially expedient to continue to follow the no competition guideline.

 

I've sent my e- mail.

Edited March 22, 2010 by bigugli

[bigfish1965]

I believe that may be an anti-trust violation.

At the casino I work at, we have to keep our alcohol prices higher than all the city bars. We are not allowed to try and compete with the bars. Using public funds to compete with private enterprise is patently unfair unless they run the operations strictly from profits and is in no way subsidized or unfairly low priced.

[JohnF]

An interesting situation. The first thing I'd check is whether there exists a registered restrictive covenant against the property. That may be stretching a bit but it seems under the circumstances to be something the govt funding body should have considered. The other possibility is as Rick suggests, treating it as a breach of trust if not an outright violation of the terms of the grant or whatever form the money contribution from the govt took.

 

In any event there should be protection & recourse for the business operators affected by the change in use. Talk to a local lawyer about it.

 

JF

[Dara]

I believe that may be an anti-trust violation.

At the casino I work at, we have to keep our alcohol prices higher than all the city bars. We are not allowed to try and compete with the bars. Using public funds to compete with private enterprise is patently unfair unless they run the operations strictly from profits and is in no way subsidized or unfairly low priced.

 

 

If the Casino was truly not competing with bars, then they wouldn't sell alcohol.

Same as the conference centre. If they weren't competing, they wouldn't exist in the first place.

 

A while ago there was talk of advertising on school busses. I don't think there should be advertising on any busses. Its competing with the advertisers for space.

But when the government builds a hockey arena nobody complains.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Dara

[tightline]

Well I thought I would do a little undercover investigation before I too start to rant about the MAN again and heres what I found...I called the 1-877 number provided on the website and asked about the packages they offer...Not one time did fishing, hunting, snowmobiling or any such outdoor activities...aside from a corporate canoe/golf package ever come up...I told her I would like to find a place in the area to stay where I could do some fishing with accommodations and she immediately referred me to 5 local businesses in the area...and when asked if they were affiliated in any way with the Eco Lodge she assured me they were not.

 

So after carefully reading TJ's post again I gave another call and inquired specifically about the Atv/Snowmobile package they have advertised here.. http://www.elklakeeco.com/seasonalpackages.html to which I was told that the package is outsourced to an Elk Lake Tourist Program...I was told she could not find that page on there website so I emailed her the link and was told that she had trainees walk in all of the sudden and she would be returning my call shortly after reviewing the page...I was also told she will email me with all the services they directly deal with at the lodge...which I will be making a follow up post to

 

For the record, TJ may I post her responding emails to this link here on the forum?? I only ask because if what they are doing is in any way shape or form a breach of there contract with there community, I would not have the first clue as to what to do with it, where some folks on here may have the answers or connections to put a stop to it

[TJQ]

For the record, TJ may I post her responding emails to this link here on the forum?? I only ask because if what they are doing is in any way shape or form a breach of there contract with there community, I would not have the first clue as to what to do with it, where some folks on here may have the answers or connections to put a stop to it

 

As long as its verbatim and theres no privacy clause associated with the email, I can't see why not.

 

 

 

[Roy]

I'd be really interested in knowing how this one plays out as well. So for now I'm watching it.

[Billy Bob]

 

 

A while ago there was talk of advertising on school busses. I don't think there should be advertising on any busses. Its competing with the advertisers for space.

But when the government builds a hockey arena nobody complains.

 

I think municipalities should sell advertisement to lower cost...just think about it....a Police Car with a advertisement sign on the back bumper area saying "Follow me to Tim Horton's".....

[IndySKS]

Leave The Elk Lake Eco Center alone you bunch of bullies...why don't ya go fishing or something.

[vinnimon]

I think municipalities should sell advertisement to lower cost...just think about it....a Police Car with a advertisement sign on the back bumper area saying "Follow me to Tim Horton's".....

Follow me to tim hortons signs on cruisers:lol: That would take some punks off the streets at 3 am, who suffer from the munchies,or dry mouth, if you know what I mean And maybe free donuts to go with the free ride back

[TJQ]

Oh.. ill be fishing soon...

[oxcowboy]

sounds like a good way to screw the small guys out of some hard earned income, while exploiting the resources.

 

jason

[capt_hooked]

interesting...!

[Golden Eagle Camp]

So after carefully reading TJ's post again I gave another call and inquired specifically about the Atv/Snowmobile package they have advertised here.. http://www.elklakeec...alpackages.html to which I was told that the package is outsourced to an Elk Lake Tourist Program...I was told she could not find that page on there website so I emailed her the link and was told that she had trainees walk in all of the sudden and she would be returning my call shortly after reviewing the page...I was also told she will email me with all the services they directly deal with at the lodge...which I will be making a follow up post to

 

 

 

Interesting phone response from the Eco Centre... sounds like they may be feeling the pressure and tailoring their responses. I'm a tourist operator in Elk Lake and have never heard of an "Elk Lake Tourist Program". Would be very interested to hear any follow-up communication.

 

The outfitters in this area have fought this battle before, but the Centre keeps playing games. This winter they built some ice huts (we could too, but our mortgage isn't paid by the government). The Centre's director claims that this isn't competing with anyone since they put massage therapy chairs in the huts, and cater to relaxation therapy clientele. Oh please!

[Gerritt]

wow! sounds like the small business owners are indeed getting the short end of the stick.. especially if it was their taxes dollars that helped build the Eco Centre...

 

bum deal.

 

G.

[bigbuck]

Talk to your local MP and raise hell with him/her!!! They will have to look into it and report back to you, especially if a group of local businesses (potential campaign contributors-yes, that's right, spend a little to make a lot) gangs up on him/her. If there are unfair business practices going on with taxpayer dollars then start going up the ladder, if enough stink is made, the government WILL have to act. You never know, if graft is involved, we'll read about this in the papers.

[Tybo]

Do thees package deals include booze.

[johnl]

interesting thread...and it's an atlantic

[Billy Bob]

Do thees package deals include booze.

 

If so I'm in...

[IndySKS]

I might be a bit out of the loop but rather than fighting over tourists that come to Elk Lake why not have some "Elk Lake tourist program" and have all the outfitters in the area work cooperatively and use the "government sponsored center" to promote the entire area. The Elk Lake area is one off the best hidden jems i have seen across this province, personally I would like to keep it hidden but hey you all need to make a living too The Eco Center is not going away and I hope neither are any of the outfitters so why not promote the area and have an income for everyone. Use the skills and resources the Eco Center can provide....if given a chance.

 

If we work cooperatively we can accomplish great feats...

 

 

Interesting phone response from the Eco Centre... sounds like they may be feeling the pressure and tailoring their responses. I'm a tourist operator in Elk Lake and have never heard of an "Elk Lake Tourist Program". Would be very interested to hear any follow-up communication.

 

The outfitters in this area have fought this battle before, but the Centre keeps playing games. This winter they built some ice huts (we could too, but our mortgage isn't paid by the government). The Centre's director claims that this isn't competing with anyone since they put massage therapy chairs in the huts, and cater to relaxation therapy clientele. Oh please!

[Golden Eagle Camp]

have all the outfitters in the area work cooperatively and use the "government sponsored center" to promote the entire area

 

 

 

Absolutely agree with you! What you describe is exactly the way this was intended to play out. The Eco Centre received the government funding to promote the entire area and serve as a learning facility. Unfortunately, they have not abided by the funding agreements, which includes a non-compete clause as well as a requirement to maintain a representative from tourism on their Board of Directors (which hasn't happened). Rather than promoting the area, they take it too far with promoting themselves as a tourist facility. The outfitters in this area are a great group of people who work well together... we just ask for the Eco Centre to return to its original purpose.

Also in agreement about this area being a "hidden gem"!! Thanks...

[Norm]

I just called the Elk Lake Eco-Center on March24/10 @1:20 pm. I talked to a lady by the name of Pam. I asked her if she would have rooms for 5 people. I asked her where we could get meals in the area. I was told the only towns in the area with services were New Liskard & Timmins. I was also told these was a small chip stand in town but not very good. I was told by this Pam she could set up our rooms with full meal packages. This place has a NON-COMPETE CLAUSE so the small businesses don't get burned by big government money. I think it's due time for the government to do a full audit on the members & board of the Eco-Center. There is something very FISHY about the whole operation. I saw a sign on my travels on the snow machine trails this winter advertizing the Eco-Center which must have cost the tax payers at least 4-5 thounsand dollars. How is it possible to advertize against the small chip stands,outfitters & little motels in Elk Lake & the surrounding areas like Matachewan & Kirkland Lake. If the government gave all these little businesses 1.6 million dollars like the Eco-Center has recieved they would gladly shut up & leave. The little businesses don't have free advertizing like Pam who runs the place. TIME TO GET YOUR BUTT OFF THE COUCH ( CHARLIE ANGUS & DO YOUR JOB OR STEP DOWN) You are allowing corruption to run amuck & are letting the little man starve due to no one monitoring the government money. DO AN AUDIT.

 

I don't know why this stuff surprises me. Every time there is a change in gov't, some money goes out to small localities to build these eco-centers.. first it was Mattawa and then one popped up in Elk Lake. They are supposed to be a conference and meeting center, but soon they realize that they cant stay afloat doing that and then start to market their accommodations.... much to the detriment of local outfitters.

 

The Elk Lake Eco Center is doing exactly that, here is a quote from a letter I received.

 

 

 

As far as I know the centers original contract said that it was not supposed to in any way harm or hinder local businesses. It was supposed to be a meeting and conference center. Now its DIRECTLY competing with Lodges and Outfitters, taking much needed business in these tough times away.

 

It has to stop. How would you feel if the government opened a business next to yours, brand new state of the art buildings and equipment, with your tax dollars, and then competed with you.

 

Really doesn't seem fair to me. The outfitters have raised their concerns.. maybe its time for the public (yes thats you..) to as well. have a look at the site and make your own decision and maybe email them with a question or two??

 

http://www.elklakeeco.com - [email protected]

[Headhunter]

I would agree that competing with a government sponsored program is a no win situation for the small businesses in the area... however I do take exception to the comment about the Chip Wagon in Elk Lake... I thought they were great!

This situation seems to my anyway as being very simliar to the CBC competing with private broadcasters for the Olympics etc... no really their mandate now is it!?

HH

[tightline]

To date no response from them at all...I work long day shift hours but will definitely follow up on the weekend