Rice Lake panfishTourist Ass. at it again!

[Terry]

this is an argument that will never be settled here

people with clear financial interest will never view things the same way as ontario sport fishermen

 

but the license we buy is a sports fishing license if you are taking home over 300 fish..that's not a sport IMHO

 

 

on lake simcoe the no limits on perch were not hurting the population but once the 45gallon drums of fresh perch cross the border, they had every right to sell them and sell them they did

putting a 50 limit put a stop to that and keeps the sport in sport fishing

[bigbuck]

Man oh Man!! There is no end to this!! I grew up panfishing Rice Lake. Setting a limit of 300 fish is nuts and a waste of time. The Rice lake Tourist Association needs a reality check. How many Americans actually come up to take home 300 sunfish?? The real problem is the high Canadian loonie coupled with a persistent recession in the U.S. Americans can't afford to come up here like they did a few years ago when the loonie was at 65 cents to the greenback. Unfortunately for the Canadian tourist trade, we hosers would rather go spend 800 loonies to go down to Cuba for a week in the winter then spend the same amount to rent a cottage for a week in the summer. It is too bad.

Trying to change the government's mind on something WITH Scientific Facts backing you up is difficult enough, not having facts backing you up...........you are wasting your time and energy. Focus on saving your business, if it is not worth saving then just close the door and cut your losses. Times have changed, change with them or get left behind.

[Michael_Brown]

Well four of us anglers attended the meeting along with 7-8 RLTA members and it was interesting to say the least. I presented exactly what we have talked about here. 300 sunfish is more than enough, it is good for the lakes, stops abusive harvest and offers a sustainable harvest for now and in the future. We brought in 50 perch in a pail and 7 other pails to show how many fish 1 person could harvest in 1 day under the new regulations. I used the line, it is a lake not a grocery store. I was fair to the RLTA, as I understand their concerns, and even polite in my address of them.

Then as Ron has already pointed out, one of their members (aka Guardians of the Lake) stood up and stated that we were anti-american racists who should be wearing white sheets and pointy hats...

I guess having an opinion that supports ethical harvest and a sustainable healthy population of panfish is the RLTA equivalent of the KKK. Never saw that angle coming to be honest but playing the race card worked for OJ so why not?

 

They are also for ice fishing but some of them are against ice fishing....I'm confused.

 

After the meeting Ron and I met with some of them and offered to help show them some new oppourtunities that they could work towards to improve their business. Wait and see. They can either adapt to the new regulations and drop in tourism from many factors or whine themselves bankrupt.

 

We did an interview with the Northumberland newspaper before the meeting and I know Pete G wrote a letter on this topic.

To be honest the council spoke of getting phone calls and receiving mailed letters on this topic but no mention of reading e-mails or message boards. I think to be more effective we should start mailing letters and making phone calls. 35 members of the RLTA and they all send letters and make phone calls. 1 million or so anglers and ....cricket....cricket...

We need to get better or our resource will continue to be run by small interest groups who are focused.

 

Our point was made and the council is going to review the information. The MNR staff gave a good presentation with lots of pictures.

 

 

Thanks for the support and if I dig up some council phone numbers maybe we could give up a few minutes each and call about our concerns.

 

 

A big thank you to Tomfoolery who took the time to show up and help the cause.

Tom doesn't look like a anti-american racist but you never can tell. For the record Tom, I'm from Ontario.... just in case.

 

 

I need a nap.

 

 

 

Mike B

[northshore]

Keeping 300 fish is just plain ridiculus, i've only panfished on Simcoe and start losing count after 2 dozen, how does anyone actually keep track of 300 fish?? They want 500 fish! just plain greedy - no one needs that many fish - with the price of gas, lodging, boats, tackle, etc etc.. it's cheaper to go to loblaws and buy a few bags of smelt. I'm digusted that ppl are complaining about this very liberal limit of 300 - already a gross over-harvest of fish. Panfish are not an unlimited resource - ya ya Rice Lake is huge - there are millions of fish - doesn't give anyone the right to fish farm it - i can't believe this caveman attitude still exists today. Lodge and Resort operators who think they own the lake and all the fish in it - well NEWS FLASH, you don't - the lake and all the fish in it belong to all of us - and i support any measures taken to preserve the fishery. The only part of Rice Lake you own is the 100 or so feet of frontage and maybe the 1 foot variable water line along the shore. What a joke.

 

 

FYI i would like to add - i have every right to flip my jigs under your docks, my boat and more importantly my jigs are on public property, and my jig has never landed on your wheel barrel imported sandy "beaches".

Edited March 5, 2010 by northshore

[Twocoda]

im just compelled to say this..( i truly wish i wasnt)....Ive only fished Rice a handful of times and rented cottages each time with a party of 10..usually on long weekends and pay premium dollars ....enjoyed ourselves to the utmost extremes that quite frankly we could have done anywhere .....those representing the RLTA and affiliated interests have now defeated their purpose of existence. To be blunt .... YOUR DOING MORE HARM THEN GOOD FOR THE RIGHT TO EARN MY TOURIST DOLLARS . You probably should have left this discussion in the meetings rather then on a open forum for your true colours to be exposed to the thousands of members of this community...ouch!!!!!! that could have adverse effects for awhile....( might be a good thing though ....cuz the fish population will grow if no one goes and you may get your 500 limit)....from where im sitting ....i hope 'big brother" takes their sweet ole time doing the research to release an already outrageous catch limit to an even more outrageous catch limit...

 

Fishnnana- As you posted in a smarmy manner the words " God Bless " ill leave you with the 7 sins

 

GREED/ GLUTTONY/PRIDE/ENVY/WRATH/LUST/SLOTH

 

My agnostic dollars WILL be spent on other lakes

 

Cheers

Edited March 6, 2010 by Twocoda

[fishermccann]

im just compelled to say this..( i truly wish i wasnt)....Ive only fished Rice a handful of times and rented cottages each time with a party of 10..usually on long weekends and pay premium dollars ....enjoyed ourselves to the utmost extremes that quite frankly we could have done anywhere .....those representing the RLTA and affiliated interests have now defeated their purpose of existence. To be blunt .... YOUR DOING MORE HARM THEN GOOD FOR THE RIGHT TO EARN MY TOURIST DOLLARS . You probably should have left this discussion in the meetings rather then on a open forum for your true colours to be exposed to the thousands of members of this community...ouch!!!!!! that could have adverse effects for awhile....( might be a good thing though ....cuz the fish population will grow if no one goes and you may get your 500 limit)....from where im sitting ....i hope 'big brother" takes their sweet ole time doing the research to release an already outrageous catch limit to an even more outrageous catch limit...

 

Fishnnana- As you posted in a smarmy manner the words " God Bless You" ill leave you with the 7 sins

 

GREED/ GLUTTONY/PRIDE/ENVY/WRATH/LUST/SLOTH

 

My agnostic dollars WILL be spent on other lakes

 

Cheers

That is a great answer, fight fire with fire( brimstone with brimstone).

[always_release]

Instead of increase the limit from 300 to 500, we should urge MNR to drop it to 50!!!

[Ron]

Well at least the local news paper is seeing our views as well.

 

It's not a Grocery Store!

[Michael_Brown]

One thing I want to mention. Is that the RLTA members have already attended numerous municipal council meetings about these issues. We need to get going to catch up. I would recommend, if you are a member of a angling club or group (OFAH, Bassmaster, cottage assoc. etc) that you bring this topic up or call someone.

They are trying to have Rice granted special status to make is seperate from other lakes in the zone. Personally I would grant this status and because Rice is showing the most signs of overharvest of the Bluegills, use this status to lower the limit to 50 or 30. Otherwise if it is granted the other cottage associations and resorts on our other great waterbodies would be left at a disadvantage. This would cause more harm than good for tourism but again they are only concerned with their pockets being full.

 

I am hoping to draft a letter that we could post so people could print it, sign it and mail it to local council members to show our opposition to these actions.

 

Any other ideas?

 

http://www.northumberlandtoday.com/Article....aspx?e=2478283

Edited March 5, 2010 by Michael Brown

[Tom McCutcheon]

Mike and Ron.

The next time we have a meeting like that I won't forget my white sheet..... only it would be a moose with a mask over it's face to hide it's identity or something Canadian.....What an impression he must have made to council.

Like I said yesterday I don't believe a lobby group like this should be allowed to dictate change to the newley established regulations, and try to get "THEIR LAKE" designated a SPECIAL FISHERY. They had their opportunity to have their say at the FMZ17 council meetings. If it happens here it could spread to other greedy lobbyists in other Kawartha lakes associations. It has only been 4 months since the regulation changes came into effect. If it had of been me owning a resort on the lake, or any lake on the Kawarthas for that matter, I would have been ready for the hard water season and embracing the changes as a new business venture.

 

Keep us advised boys and you can always count on my support.

 

Tom.

[TJQ]

Does that 300 fish include perch or is it just sunfish/crappie??

[solopaddler]

Well four of us anglers attended the meeting along with 7-8 RLTA members and it was interesting to say the least. I presented exactly what we have talked about here. 300 sunfish is more than enough, it is good for the lakes, stops abusive harvest and offers a sustainable harvest for now and in the future. We brought in 50 perch in a pail and 7 other pails to show how many fish 1 person could harvest in 1 day under the new regulations. I used the line, it is a lake not a grocery store. I was fair to the RLTA, as I understand their concerns, and even polite in my address of them.

Then as Ron has already pointed out, one of their members (aka Guardians of the Lake) stood up and stated that we were anti-american racists who should be wearing white sheets and pointy hats...

I guess having an opinion that supports ethical harvest and a sustainable healthy population of panfish is the RLTA equivalent of the KKK. Never saw that angle coming to be honest but playing the race card worked for OJ so why not?

 

They are also for ice fishing but some of them are against ice fishing....I'm confused.

 

After the meeting Ron and I met with some of them and offered to help show them some new oppourtunities that they could work towards to improve their business. Wait and see. They can either adapt to the new regulations and drop in tourism from many factors or whine themselves bankrupt.

 

We did an interview with the Northumberland newspaper before the meeting and I know Pete G wrote a letter on this topic.

To be honest the council spoke of getting phone calls and receiving mailed letters on this topic but no mention of reading e-mails or message boards. I think to be more effective we should start mailing letters and making phone calls. 35 members of the RLTA and they all send letters and make phone calls. 1 million or so anglers and ....cricket....cricket...

We need to get better or our resource will continue to be run by small interest groups who are focused.

 

Our point was made and the council is going to review the information. The MNR staff gave a good presentation with lots of pictures.

 

 

Thanks for the support and if I dig up some council phone numbers maybe we could give up a few minutes each and call about our concerns.

 

 

A big thank you to Tomfoolery who took the time to show up and help the cause.

Tom doesn't look like a anti-american racist but you never can tell. For the record Tom, I'm from Ontario.... just in case.

 

 

I need a nap.

 

 

 

Mike B

 

Thanks to you, Ron and others for standing up and representing the rest of us. I for one appreciate it!

Absolutely amazing that they pulled the race card.

 

 

Well at least the local news paper is seeing our views as well.

 

It's not a Grocery Store!

 

Great to see.

[Beans]

Does that 300 fish include perch or is it just sunfish/crappie??

 

The 300 limit is for sunfish/bluegills Boss (only 30 can be over 7 inches)

Perch (50) and crappie (30) have their own limits...(any size)

[RandyC]

Hey Mike .. met you the other day at the Council meeting. First of all, I'd like to say I am a resort owner on Rice Lake and a VERY AVID ANGLER. I respect your passion, you are fighting for what you believe in .. maybe not for all the right reasons, in my opinion, but YOU believe them .. and I respect that.

 

I would like to say there was a comment made at that meeting that was uncalled for by someone, that does NOT express the views of all resort owners, although I am here to speak for myself, period.

 

I read the article in the Northumberland Today and I would like to clarify a few things. First of all, the limits you are talking about, a daily catch .. is also your FULL POSSESSION LIMIT .. therefore .. once your limit is caught, that's it. I find what you are saying very misleading.

 

Second of all .. we are not after NO LIMITS .. nothing could be further from the truth. The new regs, 30 crappie, I support 100% .... 50 perch, I support 100% ... new regs on muskie, I support 100% ... new slot size on walleye, I support 100% ... extended season to Dec 15 for bass, I support 100% ... sunfish, I can support a limit when there never was one but do firmly believe that the recommendations of the council should be adhered to on this one ... extended 12 month fishing season (FOR ANY SPECIES) I strongly oppose. It encourages walleye poaching .. sorry to say but thats a fact! There were stories at that meeting yesterday that there was a 33" walleye and a 9 lb walleye caught through the ice .. these fish were released but obviously kept out long enough to weigh and measure. The chance that harm was caused to them is extremely high, they should have been released immediately.

 

Although I do support the extended bass season, it also allows for walleye fishermen to poach, yet again. And we can say that poaching doesnt happen but we know that it does. The extended season also opens the door to further walleye and even bass poaching in the spring ... now no one can question why the bass boat is out there in May, can they?

 

You also make it sound like you approached us after the meeting in an effort to give us new ideas on how to run our business. Let's set that record straight .. WE approached YOU in an effort to be friendly and show some simple manners. You offered an idea to me ... I should consider allowing people to fish off my docks for $5 per head. Now .. let me see .. we have 12 cottages and enough car parking for those 12 cottages plus trailers from their boats and enough dock space for those registered guests to use. There is no extra space , either in the parking lot or on the docks nor is there a central toilet facility for these "daily" visitors. My guests feel completely comfortable leaving their fishing gear in their boats or beside their cottages at all times. At $5 per head, I cannot justify policing things never mind the investment of thousands of dollars for a simple toilet facility.

 

It is my opinion that the extended season MUST be stopped .. it WILL ruin the lake and believe it or not, my MAIN concern IS THE LAKE!!!!!!! Which we do not own nor have we ever stated that we own .. another misconception that YOU keep putting forth.

 

In our conversation in the parking lot yesterday, it was apparent to me that one of your main goals is for winter walleye fishing on this lake. This was made evident by the comment of one of the gentlemen in your group when he said that the walleye population in Rice Lake could support a winter fishery. Looks like we have another Lake Scugog on our hands!

 

I wonder if your followers understand that you are basically trying to shut down a business that brings almost $400 million dollars (as per the most recent posted stats, 2006 Ministry of Toursim data for County of Peterborough and County of Northumberland, total tourist spending) into the economy of this rather small region. This is the equivalent to shutting down GM in Oshawa ... many jobs as well as tax dollars are at risk. Tourist spending supports not only the few resorts on the lake but gas stations, restaurants, liquor stores, beer stores, movie theatres, grocery stores, drug stores, walmart .. to mention a few. I wonder how many of you have wives and children that work at these establishments and how many of them will be impacted as the ripple effect begins to take hold.

 

You seem to be under the impression that winter fishing will compensate for the loss of summer business. Nothing could be further from the truth. The only income to the area will be day trippers who bring a bag lunch and a thermos .. and gas up before they leave home. And I would like you to know how deeply our pocket is lined with gold ... so much so that I have had to drive a school bus for extra income while my wife worked for minimum wage .. sounds pretty darn golden to me! You tell us to get off our lazy butts and advertise .. we have spent on average $10 - $15 thousand per year on advertising .. if that is not enough, then what???

 

You seem to have all the answers, Mike .. well come on over and make me an offer. You know who I am. Let's see if YOU can do better. Shall I get the "sold" sign ready?

 

In closing, watch the economy of the surrounding areas collapse when we all shut our doors and walk away ... because Mike, as much as I respect your passion, its mis-guided.

 

Randy Cogar, Resort Owner .. NOT hiding behind a false name

[Roy]

Thanks for posting your opinion Randy.

 

Randy Cogar, Resort Owner .. NOT hiding behind a false name

 

You might not be hiding but you appear to be using FishinNanna's computer.

[solopaddler]

Thanks for posting your opinion Randy.

 

 

 

You might not be hiding but you appear to be using FishinNanna's computer.

 

Now that's funny!

 

I have to say though I'm 100% opposed to an ice fishing season for walleye, for all the reasons that Randy/Nana expressed.

[RandyC]

Just want you to know that I am not Nana and alot of people other than myself and my wife use this computer.

 

I have never and will never HIDE ..

[Terry]

I too am opposed to walleye icefishing on the shallow Kawartha lakes....

 

how is he trying to shut down your business, things do change as in every business and life it'self . you adapt or die......

P.S. RLTA do not owner the lake the people of Canada do.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Terry

[crappieperchhunter]

You seem to be under the impression that winter fishing will compensate for the loss of summer business. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

Not quite sure how you can make this statement. Did you try to have an open business for this winter? Even if you did... how could you possibly blame a regulation change that has only been in effect for 64 days

 

And with the GLOBAL economy being in the dumper for the last 2 years, I'm sure your business was hurting during that time period which had nothing to do with this new regulation.

 

A core group of us used to do a trip every spring and fall to various places for mostly walleye,fly in lakes and drive too lakes. Out of all those trips we only ever brought home fish once. And there is lots out there like us. I truly hope you can find yourself some repeat clientele who are not meat hunters. You maybe able to use today's crappy economy to get the MNR to grant you special regulations for Rice, but believe me those meat hunter days are numbered. I hope they are gone for good myself.

 

Believe me when I say I envy anyone who makes a living doing what you do. Find a niche market that doesn't cater to meat hunters and treat them right and you will be fine. Rice is a great lake very close to the GTA and surrounding areas. Your location is PRIME. Good luck at coming through this.

[RandyC]

Thank you Terry and crappieperchhunter .. I'm glad you agree about the extended season being very harmful to the overall health of the lake.

 

Again .. so everyone understands ... I am only speaking for myself and for MY business. We personally have never had (since we've owned the resort) meat hunters. I personally do not think that there is a problem with the 300 limit. I do, however, think that extending the season while imposing limits is contradictory and not in the best interests of conservation. I also feel that since this "council" worked so long and hard on this subject that they should know what they are talking about and should be listened to, that's my only logic for wanting 500. Remember .. MY LOGIC ... not anybody elses.

 

Regarding opening this season (now past) ... our insurers insisted that we incorporate another company in order to do anything involved with winter fishery or they wouldnt even consider insuring us. We were notified mid to end of November of the new regs which left very little time to pull it together, if we chose to. By the time you do the math of incorporating a new company, insurance, washroom and water facilities (which we do not have in cold weather ... our water comes from lines in the lake that goes through a filtration system, non of which is heated so as not to freeze) .. the cost of a few sheets of plywood was the least of it. It's just not as simple as some people seem to think it is .. not if you want to do it by the law and by the book. Sometimes you really need to walk a mile in someone elses shoes in order to know what you are talking about.

 

I also find, for MYSELF, I could not morally do the ice fishing thing when I am so set against it. Not everything is about the almight dollar. We are very lucky to have numerous guests that come year after year, many of whom catch and release.

 

Bottom line, guys .. the panfish issue is all smoke and mirrors .. it's to open the door and take our minds off the walleye and so that they can slip it through. Unless we do something about it now, winter walleye fishing will be in place by next year, I absolutely believe this ... and it was proven to me verbally by one of the angler guys at the meeting the other day with his comment.

 

Randy

[crappieperchhunter]

Thank you Terry and crappieperchhunter .. I'm glad you agree about the extended season being very harmful to the overall health of the lake.

 

 

You must have misunderstood me. I absolutely do NOT think the extended season will be harmful at all. I want to be absolutely clear on that.

 

No one said owning your own business was going to be a bed of roses. But the rewards are many. Good luck with trying to convert things over to accommodate winter guests. I understand what you have ahead of you in that department. However,it will pay off in the long run.

[cheaptackle]

Wow - the RLTA wants the MNR to overide the DFO to change an individual lakes FMZ (acronym brain freeze now!) regs - have I got that right? Does the RLTA understand that all this involves multiple tiers of government that never moves quickly? Is that why they have started posting here, on an anglers forum, looking for support? After the fact of all the meetings & discussions, presentations and opportunity for input? Somehow methinks approaching this from the municipal level ain't gonna cut it, and certainly not going to find sympathy here from the sounds of it. Singling out scientifically based in fact efforts at resource conservation as potential threats to a business sector in a repressed economy can only be doing one thing - costing the complainers MORE of their proclaimed scarce dollars!

 

How come only the RLTA is sqwaking? Haven't hear any other lake association crying about the new regs.

Fellas (& gals!), I say this only once, feel free to chip in, Rice Lake was once one I enjoyed, albeit too infrequently. I've never been one to enter a conflict zone as long as my eyes were open, as they are now. Good thing for me there's many other lakes to fish in. I hope the RLTA realizes the damage they are doing to their entire community BEFORE many more begin to think like I do, in that I really don't want to spend my recreation time and DOLLARS somewhere that is in conflict with the rules I have to obey (and agree with) - kinda makes me feel like I don't belong!

 

Michael

[irishfield]

I'm sorry Randy.. find another insurer. They won't insure for what reason.. fear of someone going thru the ice? You run a resort... been there.. done that with with my f-in-law... a 175 site campground.. and yes he drove a school bus in winter to make ends meet as well!! Insurance is a yearly thing.. value of the asset you want covered + liability coverage. Why would you even ask them about "what if we offered ice fishing". Just do it.. you've already paid to be covered for a year of liability from the greedy pricks.

 

If not... so what, do what they want.. $1100 for another Ontario Number (available through your Lawyer at said cost within 2 weeks.. mine use to keep "numbers" on the shelf so clients could have one the next day.. since been outlawed). If the resort is in your name... rent it to your spouse for the winter season... to cover your living costs pre tax and get a chequing account for the new business number.. $65 for a few hundred cheques that will last you a decade.

 

Water is of course an issue. Do you live there at all in the winter.. or elsewhere? Is this the main reason you don't want to make a go at the winter season.... you aren't there in the "off season" and enjoying the deep south like many resort owners do. If you are there.. you must have a water source that doesn't freeze.. tap into it. A full day with a small hoe and some 1"poly pipes.. or are the cabins uninsulated as well. I know.. it never ends.... but Adapt.. embrace... or as you've already alluded to. .. SELL.

[Mayor of Rice lake]

ReplyI also heard the comment made at yesterdays meeting and I believe it was right on the money The avid fisherman are in my eyes some of the most crooked people in the mix here your group yesterday consisted of at least one poacher one crook your perch was caught in lake simcoe very legal no problem till one of yous tried to enter one of the fish in a small Rice lake derby. This person was under suspicion right from the start he lost any way by a rice lake fish we won't question the integrity of that. also have witnessed one of your group filling five gallon buckets of crappie. ask your group which one of them were holding the spear or the light many evenings around Idelwyld and goose creek. Every one of you know one in one thousand Canadians fish blue gills What was said about you and your group hating Americans was exactly the truth if you and your group had of entered the room in your hat and sheet. instead of your pails for that ridicoulous presentatiom.One of the councilours even rolled there eyes at that so that is the weight you carried with that council. I would have respected you fellas alot if you had of just represented yourselves honestly Have a nice day Mike and I will be at every meeting to expose your little group Mayor of Rice lake

[Terry]

as I always say

if you can win a fight with facts

then just attack the integrity of the opposing party ..much like our government does every election