WHO OWNS THE WATER??

[snag]

I decided to try some ice fishing at the Humber Marina just for a laugh.

 

I drilled two holes and heard a voice behind me on the dock.

 

Two men, worker and boat owner(?) informed me that there was no fishing.

 

I asked if the marina had rights to the water. They said yes, "it's in their lease", I was told.

 

 

I know we've discussed this before.

 

I thought that basically, the water is for everyone. Once I set foot on the dock then I would be trespassing.

 

What's the law here?

 

Thanks!

[Gerritt]

As far as I know NOONE can own a body of water unless it is land locked and contained within their property lines (ie. a Pond) I dont think they were within their rights telling you to leave... I mean what harm were you really doing? if it is a publicly navigable water way it is for public use.

 

 

Gerritt

[snag]

I agree Gerritt,

 

I am very courtious when i'm fishing around public and private property.

 

I left politely but I did not see any signs at the entrance of the marina (lake O) prohibiting public access.

 

I do want to go back and try again.

Edited February 9, 2007 by snag

[ccmtcanada]

Snag...I would think that if you are able to cast a line in there in open water, there should be no problem drilling a few holes in the ice. Go figure...I'd try again...maybe even call the marina to check.

[kennyman]

Bring a cop over there and straighten them up. Either that or go over with half a dozen big bad donkey looking guys (Lew and Rattletrap2 come to mind) and ask permission that way. Personally I'd post this all over the place. Doesn't look good on that marina does it?

[BFSC Kevin]

total Bull, how were you on their property? since when did they own Lake O? hell, next time, i'll come with you and have the whole hut thing going on too.

Edited February 9, 2007 by kevin

[Terry]

I would love to hear the true facts as to who owns/controls places like marinas

I have been kicked out and the police were called and they told me the owner does have the right to keep me out and stop me from fishing....

 

I could see if someone took a piece of property and dug canals and blocked access to it from the lake they may own it but who knows

[Clampet]

Go Back and if possible bring a friend as a witness.

Bring a camera.

Photograph the incumbents.

Refuse to leave.

Make them make the next move.

Dial 911.

[lookinforwalleye]

LOL I think he was power tripping as long as you don`t trespass on his property he can not stop you from fishing on the river the river is owned by the province and that means you, me and every other Ontarian.

 

I recall once many years ago I was fishing a small lake in Muskoka and came apon a nice bit of shoreline so I started casting and a couple of minutes later the property owner comes running down to the shore telling me that I was not allowed to fish there because it is private property claiming he owned the first 15 feet of the lake I politely told that I owned shares in the whole lake but he was more than welcomed to use my lake any time he wanted.

[ch312]

as long as you do not go on their property to get on the ice or to get off then you can fish 1" from the shoreline if you wish.

[snag]

Hmmmmmmm,

 

I did enter the property from public land and walked across the ice to the spot.

 

Even if the bite is poor, I want to return on principle to give it a try.

 

I've tried googling the property lines and water access but no info yet.

 

I'll keep trying.........

[The Urban Fisherman]

haha that's funny dude....take pictures and hook us up with a report next time you go!

 

uf

[Roy]

Careful now guys.....it seems to me there are still a few places in Ontario where marinas and such have exclusive water rights. Should check first.

[snag]

Careful now guys.....it seems to me there are still a few places in Ontario where marinas and such have exclusive water rights. Should check first.

 

I'm afraid Roy may be correct.

 

I did find some info that indicated that the "land and water" are leased from the federal government.

 

However, no boundaries are described.

[TennesseeGuy]

Get more respect by going on a combination fishing and hunting trip. Take fishing equipment and a rifle.

[lew]

snag, why not just call Toronto Police, Marine Unit, and ask them.

 

Their job is patrolling those waters and they should have an answer, or at least tell you who to call.

[Tdel]

I have to agree with Roy about this one. In Midland when the Grain Elevators and CNR property at the end of Yonge Street was put on the market, some of the lots available showed water rights going with them. I was kind of surprised to see that happen.

 

Tread softly.

 

Tom

[aniceguy]

Careful now guys.....it seems to me there are still a few places in Ontario where marinas and such have exclusive water rights. Should check first.

 

 

While Roy is right in this case the Humber Marina you speak doesnt own any water inclusive of the ones thier docks are on am I certain yup

[bassjnkie]

I don't know if this helps? I was planning to buy a local marina, he had a dock for launching boats, and another for fishing. He showed me his deed and it stated that he owns 30 feet of water from the fishing dock, and 40 feet of water from the boat lauch. The local all told me it was owned by the township. Well they were wrong.

 

Hope this helps.

[Pigeontroller]

Lets have an Ice fishing G2G there soon, that'll teach'em!

[Snowball]

Here (apparently) is what happens in Thunder Bay:

 

Thunder Bay Harbour - Winter

The Thunder Bay Harbour commission will allow the harbour ice to be used for limited number of events each winter, subject to the condition of the ice. Permission to use the harbour ice will only be given to events that either provide an economic benefit to the City of Thunder Bay through tourism revenue, or appeal to a broad segment of the population.

 

Any individual or organization wishing to hold an event on the harbour ice is required to:

 

*

 

Make a request in writing to the Manager, Tourism Division.

*

 

Applications must be submitted by September 30th of each year for review.

*

 

The use of city property to access the ice surface is subject to the terms and conditions outlined in the Rules and Regulations Governing Access to the Harbour Ice.

*

 

Contact the Tourism Division at 625-3231 for more information.

 

Regards,

Snowball

[lookinforwalleye]

I have to agree with Roy about this one. In Midland when the Grain Elevators and CNR property at the end of Yonge Street was put on the market, some of the lots available showed water rights going with them. I was kind of surprised to see that happen.

 

Tread softly.

 

Tom

 

I believe having "water rights" attached to a property simply means you have the right to use the water i.e. in a manufacturing environment etc. and does not mean you own the lake or river or a part of it, having said all that it would be nice to know the actual legalities of the topic instead of our speculation.

I am sure one of members will find a link to the correct answer.

 

Good Topic!

[GbayGiant]

My sister is a real estate broker and lives on water front property, sells cottages all the time and gets asked this question allot. Shes says nobody owns the water, you can own the bottom of the water (land under the water) and have the right to put docks or whatever you want in that area, but if someone wanted to fish 1" beside or in between your docks without touching it that is perfectly O.K.

 

Ex. Since the water level has gone down quit a bit the last 10 years on GB, there was a new 15-20 feet of beach in my sisters front lawn where 1-3 feet of water use to be, so she owns that because that land was purchased with the house.

 

It's usually just grumpy old rich folk that care, the greed will get them sooner or later, let them stress about it and just keep fishing, if the cops do come for some reason they will give you a warning first anyway if you did do something wrong.(witch I highly doubt)

 

Like mentioned, you can't access the water from private property, but you could float down a river or lake as long as you start from a public area. been there done that.

 

Some areas could be different, but 99% of the time all water is game. I think you could even land a helicopter in someones private (pond) property if it was a natural pond, as long as you don't touch their land.

 

There are some grey areas, so just make sure, but even the police don't seem to know much on this issue when they get called in.

Edited February 10, 2007 by GbayGiant

[bob baker]

Considering you were enjoying fishing for the day, and the other two guys were about making you stop enjoying fishing, you might next trip tell them you believe you are fishing public waters and unless they have some document stating you can't fish there, to tell them you're staying and they are welcome to call the OPP for any necessary clarification.

 

Too bad they would even care if you're out there fishing.

[caper]

Snag,

 

Are you talking about the Toronto Humber Yacht club up the Humber river or the ones in Humber Bay? Mimico or the Etobicoke Yacht Club? I know a little bit about the Toronto waterfront and at first glance my reply would be you would definately be allowed to fish where there are navigatble waters, however like some have said there are certain exceptions but I have never heard of any for the waterfront except in the Toronto Harbour boundries which are controlled by the Toronto Port Authority which would be similar to what snowball is referring to in Thunder Bay because it is a commercial Port run by a federal Agency and they have exclusive rights over the waterways in the port.

 

I can try and find out more but if it was me I would just politely say call the Police, They will come and sort it out for you. If your in the wrong which I doubt you are you will most likely be just asked to leave. Some Marina types think they own everything around them including the water but they are in most cases wrong. If they have any rights at all to the area they will have to produce proof to the officers.

 

Also a quick call to the MNR for the Toronto area should clear that up for you. If your lawfully fishing they cannot harass you remember.

 

Craig

Edited February 10, 2007 by caper