NF - Ever Build a House?

[The Urban Fisherman]

I'm just toying with the idea at the moment...there's many more factors that need to be looked into before I could even consider such a commitment. Quick and simple, I've got a buyer interested in my house (my own fater-in-law lol). My profit margin would be upwards of 35k. That's enough to pay off my wife's OSAP, which at the moment costs us a whopping $550.00 a month ($250 of which is interest). Selling the house would make us debt free, (that's $70,000 in combined OSAP paid off in 3 years) but we'll need to buy another house. We'd like to move to "town", Port Rowan, where we'll have high speed internet, town water and sewage, better schools, and my wife's entire family lives near by. The problem is there's ZERO houses for sale that even come close to meeting our requirements.

 

So we're looking into the possibility of building a house that will suit our needs. There's 2 new subdiv's in Rowan right now.

 

Subdiv 1) $20,000 down and you pay the rest when your house is done. You basically pick your house from a few different models, customize it a little, then walk away until it's finished.

 

Subdiv 2) You buy the lot, find your own contractor, and house plans etc.

 

We hadn't planned to move for some time, but it's hard to pass up a $35,000 profit on your house in today's market.

 

So if any of you guys have any input on building a house based on these two scenario's that'd be greatly appreciated, and if anybody out there happens to be a contractor, I'd love any input, help etc. you can give.

 

By the way, if anything like this went down, it'd be a smaller 3 bedroom bungalow. 1300 sq. feetish...

 

Thanks in advance as usual.

 

Cheers,

Ryan

[pirlo06]

i actually frame for a living, ive been framing for about 9 years nows. personally i would go with your second option on building it yourself, you and your wife get to design it and the best part of that is you get to watch it being built,you can kind of be a supervisormind you have to bring coffe's. if you have your house built in a subdivision you dont know what type of framer your dealing with cause there are alot of guys that just dont care, these house get thrown up in a week and a half and if theres not a good crew were on it youll have squeeky everything. good luck to you and your wife.

[oxcowboy]

my wife and i just got finished with our house, started on september 1 and moved in christmas eve, we had a contractor do it, i will second the notion of it being very interesting to watch it come up. ours was about 3500 sq feet with full basement, the builder took care of all of the subcontracting which was nice, took alot of the worry out of it. the basement is unfinished, but that gives me a good excuse to have the fellas over for some beers and free labor. as far as the subdivision deal i dont know, ours is out in the middle of nowhere on our farm. if you can turn some serious coin i say go for it, but might look into cheaper land on the outskirts of town, which will probably increase in value as the urban sprawl goes, who knows when you are old and grey it might make a good supplement to your retirement and turn some more coin.

good luck, hope it all turns out well.

 

jason

Edited April 8, 2009 by oxcowboy

[The Urban Fisherman]

Thanks a lot steelheader! I should mention that there's an option to custom build in subdivision 1 and the builder doesn't put the house up in a week out here, its a much smaller local company. They say 3 to 4 months. Of course that doesn't mean the work will be any better! Lol There's also the option to knock on the neighbourgood doors to see how the experience was for them and if they're happy with the final product. I just don't know if I can handle the stress that comes with hiring my own contractor.

 

Thanks again guys!

[irishfield]

I built everything in mine Ryan other than the basement blocks, 12/12 stick roof, it's steel and I skipped doing the drywall on this one. Did everything else.... dug the footings while Leah shot the transit and son held the stick.. laid out and poured the footings.. had guys do the blocks and then I framed it from there..all 5810 sq ft... I plumbed, wired and insulated it as well by myself.

 

HIRE A CONTRACTOR is all I can advise! LOL

 

Visit a couple times a week and make sure walls are where you want them. Nothing gets closed 'till you look at it first... etc.

[The Urban Fisherman]

You're a better man than me Irish! No way I'd have the time lettle own the patience! I did the drywall plumbing bathroom and kitchen in my curent house and ill never do it again. If I'm able to turn a 35k profit on it it'll be worth it but like I said I'm done with doing myself!

 

Cheers,

Ryan

[bigugli]

Was a site supervisor for a couple of builders. There are pros and cons to all scenarios'.

 

Buying a builder's home. Pick a model and particular upgrades and let them schedule and build. Pay your down and then pony up the mortgage on closing day.

You have no control over the contractors or materials being used. You do not have to worry about scheduling, inspects, payment schedules, being on hand every day, cleanup, etc...

 

You as the builder have total control, and total responsibility, for the project. There is a lot more work to it than many realize in selecting contractors, trades, materials, suppliers. You have to get the permits and approvals and schedule the inspections. You then have to set the appropriate construction timetable. Essentially, you have to be onsite every day you have people working, have deliveries, and to properly clean up behind each trade ( They aren't that meticulous. You have to make sure each house is completely swept out after each major work cycle, or the dirt and dust remains trapped in the house.) You micromanage.

 

The compromise is to hire a general contractor to oversee the details and the trades while you oversee him and the work. You can't oversee the project on a daily basis and still hold down a job. The GC will also have a better handle on how to get the best out of the tradesmen. He does the micromanaging It still requires trust, and relinquishing a lot of control.

[The Urban Fisherman]

Thanks Bigugli,

 

Yeah the only way it could fly without buying a builders home is to hire a GC. I can't devote any time to this project as I'm plenty busy with work and family as it is. At most I could pop in once a week on the weekend to check things out.

 

Oxcowboy,

 

The subdivs are the only available lots in or near town. And I've been living 20 minutes outside of town for the past year or so and am not happy with being so far away from everything. It's a 40 minute round trip for anything. No high speed (a pain for work) etc. etc.

[ch312]

i actually frame for a living, ive been framing for about 9 years nows. personally i would go with your second option on building it yourself, you and your wife get to design it and the best part of that is you get to watch it being built,you can kind of be a supervisormind you have to bring coffe's. if you have your house built in a subdivision you dont know what type of framer your dealing with cause there are alot of guys that just dont care, these house get thrown up in a week and a half and if theres not a good crew were on it youll have squeeky everything. good luck to you and your wife.

 

listen to this guy! i did concrete work for 5 years in subdivisions and some of the things i saw were just pathetic. its all about building as many houses as possible for the smallest amount of $$$. there are a few smaller builders who do less than 20 homes a year and they are the ones you can trust most of the time. a couple unhappy homeowners can ruin their reputation quickly so they usually have much better quality. look for a builder who actually does work on the home. its not hard to tell when someone actually takes pride in their work.

 

home hardware is a very good place to start if you are interested in building your own home. they have a catalog that lists how much each home will cost in materials and you just need to find the people to put it together. doing as much work as possible yourself will save you a ton of money. the general rule for construction is take your materials and multiply by 2.5 to get your price. $100k in materials to build a $250k home. labor is always the killer...

[OhioFisherman]

Just something to consider, how long do you plan to keep a new house? Had mine built in 89, I was 38 no physical problems and never really expected any.

 

4 levels to my home, and I have some serious issues with stairs now. Love my location, neighbors I can deal with, but man I wish it was a ranch! Wife isn`t getting any younger either and I can tell when she is coming downstairs by her knees popping.

 

Mother and father in law have a bungalow with a couple spare bedrooms upstairs, they are in their 70`s now and probably haven`t been upstairs more than a couple of times a year for the last 10 years.

 

Get a reliable builder and get everything in writing.

[sonny]

here's some advice to buildinga home yourself,,,contact your divorce lawyer now,,,(just kidding but not really),,,even with a general contractor,,,you have to be on top of things and him,,

 

bottom line,,it's alot harder and alot more pressure then people think!

[danbouck]

I would hire a GC and let him take care of everything. Go by a couple times a week with coffee to see how it's going. It is a good idea to make large stacked closets to make a future elevator possible. You would be amazed at the increase in resale value.

 

I am on a lot of sites and see a lot of crap.

[tinbanger]

fianancing your own build will be a little tougher than a 'straight' mortage for a subdivison model

 

Both houses I have bought first in 1992 ( new subdivision) and 2007 (15 year old house in same subdivision)

Same builder for both. It was thier first attempt at building a large subdivison ( 300 +- homes)previously they were framing company.

We have had zero issues ( minor fit/trim issues quickly resolved) we may have got lucky.Site super ( son of owner) lived in teh subdivision and his sister still does.

 

All I can offer is really check our your builder weather you go mass produced or custom. ask lots of questions and be prepared to answer alot if Custom built.

 

good luck

 

TB

[Basskicker]

I work in the residential construction field over seeing 800-1000 homes (After Closing Date).....and you couldn't pay me a take a brand new home from a builder who constructs more than 30-40 home a year. The old saying goes "They don't build them like the use to" is so true today. The CHEAPEST materials are used for EVERYTHING......and if you don't want standard, they charge you 3X the cost for upgrades....... A new home will settle in the first 2 years....leaving settlement cracks in your basement floor, garage floor, foundation walls, drywall cracks and nail-pops which are NOT covered by Tarion (Ontario homeowners Warranty). When you buy your home you must pay for TARION, it's kind of the taking your car to GM because you have a warranty, but when you get there they tell you it's not covered by the warranty.

 

I could go on....and on... and on.... it could write a book about all the BAD stuff I've seen over the years.

 

 

P.S.-If you do buy from a builder and there are people from the same builder already leaving in the sub-division.......go knock on their door and ask them about after service.....you will find out REAL QUICK if the builder is GOOD or BAD

[The Urban Fisherman]

Just something to consider, how long do you plan to keep a new house? Had mine built in 89, I was 38 no physical problems and never really expected any.

 

4 levels to my home, and I have some serious issues with stairs now. Love my location, neighbors I can deal with, but man I wish it was a ranch! Wife isn`t getting any younger either and I can tell when she is coming downstairs by her knees popping.

 

Mother and father in law have a bungalow with a couple spare bedrooms upstairs, they are in their 70`s now and probably haven`t been upstairs more than a couple of times a year for the last 10 years.

 

Get a reliable builder and get everything in writing.

 

Thanks Ohio - We don't like multi level homes, and can't afford it anyways.. My brother just bought a house with 3 levels (4 including the basement) and you spend to much time trying to find the kids! lol We're keeping it simple, open concept for the living room / dinning / kitchen, 3 bedrooms, and an office in the basement.

 

here's some advice to buildinga home yourself,,,contact your divorce lawyer now,,,(just kidding but not really),,,even with a general contractor,,,you have to be on top of things and him,,

 

bottom line,,it's alot harder and alot more pressure then people think!

 

My work schedule won't allow me to be present for the construction. I'm always either traveling or in the office, so I have to go with the developer, or find a competent GC that can do it all for me. If this isn't possible, then the house isn't going to happen.

 

I would hire a GC and let him take care of everything. Go by a couple times a week with coffee to see how it's going. It is a good idea to make large stacked closets to make a future elevator possible. You would be amazed at the increase in resale value.

 

I am on a lot of sites and see a lot of crap.

 

I never thought of that - good idea, but I don't know if it'll be a huge deal seeing as we won't have multi levels other than an office and small wreck room in the basement.

 

fianancing your own build will be a little tougher than a 'straight' mortage for a subdivison model

 

Both houses I have bought first in 1992 ( new subdivision) and 2007 (15 year old house in same subdivision)

Same builder for both. It was thier first attempt at building a large subdivison ( 300 +- homes)previously they were framing company.

We have had zero issues ( minor fit/trim issues quickly resolved) we may have got lucky.Site super ( son of owner) lived in teh subdivision and his sister still does.

 

All I can offer is really check our your builder weather you go mass produced or custom. ask lots of questions and be prepared to answer alot if Custom built.

 

good luck

 

TB

 

It's good to hear you had a good experience with a new subdivision TB!!! Personally I'm leaning towards that route for the sake of less work on my part, but I have yet to talk to the neighbors, meet with the subdiv owner, and contractor. I'm also very picky and might not like any of the homes they have to offer.

 

I work in the residential construction field over seeing 800-1000 homes (After Closing Date).....and you couldn't pay me a take a brand new home from a builder who constructs more than 30-40 home a year. The old saying goes "They don't build them like the use to" is so true today. The CHEAPEST materials are used for EVERYTHING......and if you don't want standard, they charge you 3X the cost for upgrades....... A new home will settle in the first 2 years....leaving settlement cracks in your basement floor, garage floor, foundation walls, drywall cracks and nail-pops which are NOT covered by Tarion (Ontario homeowners Warranty). When you buy your home you must pay for TARION, it's kind of the taking your car to GM because you have a warranty, but when you get there they tell you it's not covered by the warranty.

 

I could go on....and on... and on.... it could write a book about all the BAD stuff I've seen over the years.

 

 

P.S.-If you do buy from a builder and there are people from the same builder already leaving in the sub-division.......go knock on their door and ask them about after service.....you will find out REAL QUICK if the builder is GOOD or BAD

 

Yeah, as I said I'm planning to meet with the neighborhood home owners ( all 5 of them! lol ) It's a small project. The one plus is that it's not like in the big city, phase 1 of this subdiv is only about 12 properties, and they only build a few houses a year. The guy who owns it is an engineer and this is sort of his pet project.

 

Well 20 to 9 folks, time to make the long commute across the house to my office!

 

Thanks again guys! Some solid tips here. Keep 'em comin

 

Cheers,

Ryan

[Uncle Buck]

building it yourself will cost you way more $$ bottom line...

 

there is a huge difference in $$ when building a house, and a quality house...

 

If you plan on moving ever, then just buy a house prebuilt/to be built

 

If you plan on staying there forever, then build it yourself...

 

a buddy of mine built a house for himself... it finished at around 400K and it's not a monster of a house either

that was house only, and he did a lot of work himself... that 400K didn't include the property, finished basement, landscaping, driveway, furniture. But it's a quality home, more energy efficient, better built, quality materials, etc...

(he plans on never moving and the initial investment to him was worth it...)

 

know what you're getting into...

[JohnF]

I'm just toying with the idea at the moment...there's many more factors that need to be looked into before I could even consider such a commitment. Quick and simple, I've got a buyer interested in my house (my own fater-in-law lol). My profit margin would be upwards of 35k. That's enough to pay off my wife's OSAP, which at the moment costs us a whopping $550.00 a month ($250 of which is interest). Selling the house would make us debt free, (that's $70,000 in combined OSAP paid off in 3 years) but we'll need to buy another house. We'd like to move to "town", Port Rowan, where we'll have high speed internet, town water and sewage, better schools, and my wife's entire family lives near by. The problem is there's ZERO houses for sale that even come close to meeting our requirements.

 

So we're looking into the possibility of building a house that will suit our needs. There's 2 new subdiv's in Rowan right now.

 

Subdiv 1) $20,000 down and you pay the rest when your house is done. You basically pick your house from a few different models, customize it a little, then walk away until it's finished.

 

Subdiv 2) You buy the lot, find your own contractor, and house plans etc.

 

We hadn't planned to move for some time, but it's hard to pass up a $35,000 profit on your house in today's market.

 

So if any of you guys have any input on building a house based on these two scenario's that'd be greatly appreciated, and if anybody out there happens to be a contractor, I'd love any input, help etc. you can give.

 

By the way, if anything like this went down, it'd be a smaller 3 bedroom bungalow. 1300 sq. feetish...

 

Thanks in advance as usual.

 

Cheers,

Ryan

 

Ryan, I sell real estate for a living. Been doing that for over 30 years. For a long time the bulk of my business was with builders and new home buyers so I'd have to say, all modesty aside, that I know what I'm talking about.

 

I have lots of advice to offer but it would all take too long here. Besides, I have a staff meeting about to start and I'm the guy running it.

 

Rather than try to address your questions here, why not PM me and I'll do my best to answer the stuff you don't get decent answers for from the others. There's lots of knowledge here, as you know. Some of us know the construction part, some the finance, some the design and some the legal part. Put us all together and you have a great resource.

 

One word of warning before you start. Budget more than you think you'll need. Seldom have I seen a new house project come in at budget. As the building progresses you'll be seeing things you want to change or add, and most of that stuff adds costs. making changes along the way isn't necessarily a bad thing as you'd hate to have regrets down the road.

 

As for whether or not to build, I say go for it if the price is in your ballpark. New homes are great for lots of reasons including cost control, maintenance, convenience & comfort.

 

JF

[JohnF]

One other thing. Before you start with a builder google TARION and then look up the builder by name and see what his warranty record is. Every new house is bound to have some problems. What you want is a builder who deals with them expeditiously and doesn't have to be forced by Tarion to back his product.

 

JF

[ch312]

P.S.-If you do buy from a builder and there are people from the same builder already leaving in the sub-division.......go knock on their door and ask them about after service.....you will find out REAL QUICK if the builder is GOOD or BAD

 

heh...i did a job at a home that was 2 years old. the homeowners had a list of things that needed to be fixed. they showed me the list and i figured it couldnt have too many things on it. 2 FULL ROWS from top to bottom on a lined sheet of paper that needed to be fixed. had to be at least 50 different things they listed.

 

-window well not installed...what the heck?

-paint peeling off window frames

-12 cracks in the foundation

-cracked tiles

-leaky roof

 

those were the things that really stuck in my mind...

 

 

 

my cousin bought a new home and tried installing a satellite dish on the side of the house. he wanted to screw into studs as it was a larger dish and on the windy side. after a lot of cursing he started cutting drywall to find that 2 studs were missing! i think they listed the house that same week.

[LeXXington]

Love the info guys..

 

I would say if you have the time and energy build it yourself.(meaning using a contractor etc to do the work and a GC to supervise)

 

If your not a hands on type of person. Checking the site, reviewing the bills etc. Buy from a builder.

 

One reason I say this is I have seen people who don't monitor what is going on tend to go over budget big time.. Once you start its hard to stop half way.

 

Your contractor and GC work for you.. not the otherway around. There are lots of A+++ people out there these people will only bid on the job if they can committ... Chances are you have too book well in advance..

 

Then there are the others, bid on any job and reap it for all its worth.

 

Good luck

[The Urban Fisherman]

Love the info guys..

 

I would say if you have the time and energy build it yourself.(meaning using a contractor etc to do the work and a GC to supervise)

 

If your not a hands on type of person. Checking the site, reviewing the bills etc. Buy from a builder.

 

One reason I say this is I have seen people who don't monitor what is going on tend to go over budget big time.. Once you start its hard to stop half way.

 

Your contractor and GC work for you.. not the otherway around. There are lots of A+++ people out there these people will only bid on the job if they can committ... Chances are you have too book well in advance..

 

Then there are the others, bid on any job and reap it for all its worth.

 

Good luck

 

I'm a very hands on person, and actually have a hard time letting other people make decisions, or do things for me. I was a plumbing apprentice prior to going back to school and have roughed in many new homes. The problem lies in that I will at most be able to stop by the job site once a week to check on things. Also, the price needs to be set in stone before anything happens, because if it goes over budget, the funds won't be there. I'm hoping that if I go with a GC I can have a well written out contract, signed by me, and the lawyers saying it WILL NOT cost over and above X amount. Making changes half way through won't be an option for me. I have to stick with the plan, thus making the planning stage the most important part for us.

 

Thanks man - I'm the boss, I like the sound of that! lol

 

Cheers

[Gerritt]

Ryan...

 

you are looking for a CCDC#2 or Stipulated Price/Sum Contract... Look it over and become familiar with it.. but be prepared using this type of contract... alot of builders will add a contingency into their estimate incase a of component of their estimate does go over budget... making the project more $$.... also any contractor worth his salt, will show a profit and overhead line on his estimate.. look for this.

 

anyways.. I have ALOT of experience in custom homes (mostly extremely high end).. not only in building them but also in a project manager capacity. please feel free to contact me with any questions.

 

G.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Gerritt

[Headhunter]

Gerrit's yer man! He knows his stuff and he's willing to help... I'd say yah, he's yer man!

HH

[Tarzan's Jane]

Hi Ryan....here's a woman's perspective...cuz we do end up doing a lot of work too.

 

Built our home with the help of family and friends....a fair size to boot...just over 4000 sq ft. I swear to God there are still tiny nail holes in the window framing that still need to be filled. Went into the ground April 1993 and moved in November 1993. Wasn't completely done by any means and there is still a section in the basement where the ceiling remains unfinished and this was just to cut back on the property taxes.

 

Would I do it again....heck ya, if I was younger. lol And a much smaller home. (keep the laundry room on the main floor - definite bonus), and have a decent size linen closet. Actually the bigger the closets the better. (I don't miss the stairs)

 

It's a lot of work, but it also gives great satisfaction, pride and you know exactly what you've got.

 

Anyhow....all the best to you which ever way you decide to go.

 

Have fun....the best part was designing it. I never did get the hydraulics I wanted.

[MAzing]

I would go the custom home route, hire a good GC and let him know that you're brother in law has been in construction for 25 years and will be keeping an eye on things for you.

 

Show up as often as you can and unanounced to make sure things are going according to plans. As well make sure you have a contract listing everything as it will come handy if he forgets.

 

It may cost you a bit more that way but will be well worth it, very few track builders do a good job they just do enough to pass inspections.