danbouck Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Our company was one of the first ones to do this in the early eighties. It was Heaven. Get a 3 day long weekend every weekend and work 4 days. And after taxes etc, etc all you lost was peanuts. Don't know why more companies don't consider it. Keeps your workforce intact and everybody wins. The employees and the company. Our company is applying right now for that.
Spiel Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 I've been one to warren that the unions will ruin it for everyone else. Is it just me but isn't it kind of od that they are willing to take a pay cut to $130 000 a year vs. $145 000. Are you kidding me? I thought Doctors and lawyers were the ones making that kind of $$$ and they went to scholl for many years to earn that kind of money. I read an article that in Ottawa they had bus drivers and mechanics making over $100 000 a year amongs hundreads of city employees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where did I go wrong? I grew up been told go to school and get a higher education to get a better job, you will get no where with just a high school degree. Well crap I should of joined a union for sure instead of a higher education. I thought $30/hr was a good paying job and the max that bus drivers and manufacture workers got. You know I'm one of these union gents with a mere 2 years of high school and I would just love to tell you just how many ways your post is wrong. Very wrong!
BillM Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Why do people still think it's the overpaid line workers that are responsible for this entire fiasco? :shakes head:
endless Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Bill: Certainly there aren't many people silly to believe that overpaid line workers are the sole cause of the auto sector failing. However, it's equally as foolish to believe that overpaid line workers aren't a contributing factor. Poor management, producing a sub par product for decades, etc, etc have all done their share too.
Fishnwire Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Unions, and the benefits enjoyed by their members, didn't come into existence on their own. People fought (and died) to get what we have today. The eight-hour work day, the forty-hour work week, the right to refuse unsafe work, paid vacation, and just about every other labour law that protects working people...all because of unionism. And before somebody dusts off "unions have outlived their usefulness" (the age-old mantra of all anti-unionists) keep in mind that big business would like nothing more than to claw back everything we've fought for the first chance they get. There's a lot wrong with unions...but the only thing worse than belonging to a union, is NOT belonging to a union.
misfish Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 There's a lot wrong with unions...but the only thing worse than belonging to a union, is NOT belonging to a union. Whys that?????????????? I have belong to 2 union shops like I have stated before.I work now for the past 15 yrs for a non and I for one enjoy this job morethen the others,WHY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,because NO ONE SAYS, IT AINT MY JOB.
BUSTER Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Whys that?????????????? I have belong to 2 union shops like I have stated before.I work now for the past 15 yrs for a non and I for one enjoy this job morethen the others,WHY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,because NO ONE SAYS, IT AINT MY JOB. you need to switch to the YKK zippers they're better!
fishforfun Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 You know I'm one of these union gents with a mere 2 years of high school and I would just love to tell you just how many ways your post is wrong. Very wrong! Couldn't agree more, I'm a tool maker with 30 yrs experience all automotive non union. worked in small shops even ran my own. You guys are barking up the wrong tree! Walmart, Tim Hortons Westons Bakeries, etc all make billions of dollars a year paying their employees below the poverty line wages! Where is your rant about that or is that where you spend dollars?
misfish Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) Couldn't agree more, I'm a tool maker with 30 yrs experience all automotive non union. worked in small shops even ran my own. You guys are barking up the wrong tree! Walmart, Tim Hortons Westons Bakeries, etc all make billions of dollars a year paying their employees below the poverty line wages! Where is your rant about that or is that where you spend dollars? Yes they are,but thier not crying for a bail out. Thier making an HONEST LIVING. below the poverty line wages What do call ,below the poverty line wages? Hell most of the world is. you need to switch to the YKK zippers they're better! Done now,I think. Speil I know whats happening, just as you do. Dont forget, I work in the industry aswell. Edited March 13, 2009 by misfish
Lowe Rider Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 There's a lot wrong with unions...but the only thing worse than belonging to a union, is NOT belonging to a union. :lol: You are damn right their is a lot wrong with today's unions. They fought for all of today's standards I'll give you that but it has turned most long time workers into lazy arrogant and full of entitlement pickerheads. No one has a right to a good job, you have to earn it and work to keep it. I'm sorry but you should be judged on your performance not how much time you have on the job. I see too much abuse of this because if layoff's happen they know they still have a job so they screw around with no fear. Put in an honest days work and you will be rewarded. Works for me, work hard all summer and in the winter the boss keeps me busy even if it doesn't pay him because I make him money in the good times and I guess they want to keep me around and others in the company are on UI , wonder why? To many around me took the General for granted and now they helped kill the golden goose and they are all freaking out. I guess the backyard BBQ's will have a little less bragging about the easy life at the Motors. Don't get me wrong I feel bad for them and I hope they land on their feet but they were also part of the problem if the "Against Management and Ain't my job attitude" I witnessed was part of the culture there. Can't hate your company that much and produce a good product. It should be let go and we will see what comes out of the ashes.
GeorgeJ Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 I wasn't going to bother chiming in on this but anyway here are my thoughts for what they are worth. I hope people will be able to live on 15 bucks an hour with no benefits because that's reality once the unions are gone. I'm not a big union buff and I think they have gone a too far but it's hard not to ask when management is making hundreds of thousands and in some cases millions of dollars a year. I also wonder when these good paying jobs are where the tax revenue will come from, the rich pay little and the poor can't and with the middle class gone, where will it come from?
Cookslav Posted March 13, 2009 Report Posted March 13, 2009 Yes they are,but thier not crying for a bail out. Thier making an HONEST LIVING. Zing! The whole dam thing is pooched...let her crash and burn to the ground, and rebuild it on firm foundation. Sure Execs are over paid, and so are the workers....its a scale I suppose if a guy with no education who takes an entry level job and sticks around for 10 years can earn $40/hour with benefits bringing a total wage near the $60-$70/hour mark why can't a guy who spent years of his life in school, learning business, then working in offices for 20+ years who THEN takes a high ranking exec job earn more like $140/hour? Seems fair to me? To bad for the fact that us regular people paying $30,000+ for your automoitve products are the ones getting screwed, not to mention that we the public are then asked to bail your arses out with our tax dollars.... Maybe that would be an option if in fact we saw ANY change in the structure, ANY change in the Product to move towards a cheaper, More reliable, and efficient product that was being made in a SUSTAINABLE manor. Nope... I say let the unions crumble and the execs topple. Its only a matter of time anyway.
Zebco Posted March 14, 2009 Report Posted March 14, 2009 Well said Cook! They had too good for too long, they made there bed let em sleep in it!
John Bacon Posted March 14, 2009 Report Posted March 14, 2009 Zing! I suppose if a guy with no education who takes an entry level job and sticks around for 10 years can earn $40/hour with benefits bringing a total wage near the $60-$70/hour mark why can't a guy who spent years of his life in school, learning business, then working in offices for 20+ years who THEN takes a high ranking exec job earn more like $140/hour? Seems fair to me? I believe the top executives are closer to $10,000 per hour than $140 per hour. Does it still seem fair? It's not like GM's executives have done a good job.
endless Posted March 14, 2009 Report Posted March 14, 2009 I believe the top executives are closer to $10,000 per hour than $140 per hour. Does it still seem fair? It's not like GM's executives have done a good job. Some of their inability to do a good job, is because they're stuck with insane labour contracts that they can't change.
danc Posted March 14, 2009 Report Posted March 14, 2009 Instead of bashing unions, do some research on the history of labor in North America. You might learn a thing or two. Unions are solely responsible for creating the middle class in North America. They are responsible for the fact that you, your parents, and grandparents all owned a decent house, reared a bunch of kids, owed a vehicle, went on a vacation or two each year, and retired comfortably at an age when they could enjoy it. You didn't have to be a union worker to enjoy these benefits. The union workers did the dirty work and raised the bar for everyone. Unions are losing members in today's society. And the standard of living is going down as well. Coincidence? I think not. We are in a global financial crisis right now. It happens every other decade or so. We'll get through it. The huge industries will once again be making millions and billions in profits. And the unions will stand up for what is right and what is wrong as far as the labor force goes. And we will all benefit from it.
lookinforwalleye Posted March 14, 2009 Report Posted March 14, 2009 Yes unions are responsible for some good things and now they just might be responsible for the death of domestic automotive manufacturing. Let them go under and restructure offer all the former CAW/UAW workers a wage and benefit package equal to what Honda and Toyota workers recieve with no union. Sure the Honda and Toyota people may not get spa days and legal paid but the family that I have that works for Honda in Alliston are doing very well and they are proud of the product they make. It sure would be nice to not have to listen to the retoric from the likes of Lewenza,Hargrove.
GeorgeJ Posted March 14, 2009 Report Posted March 14, 2009 the only reason honda and toyota are paying what they are in Ontario is because of the union wages at the big three, if they didn't they would have been organized by now and honda and toyota know it. Wait and see they will be getting rolled back soon as the dust settles with the big three contracts.
John Bacon Posted March 14, 2009 Report Posted March 14, 2009 Some of their inability to do a good job, is because they're stuck with insane labour contracts that they can't change. It was the executives that agreed to those contracts with the unions.
Cookslav Posted March 14, 2009 Report Posted March 14, 2009 (edited) Unions are losing members in today's society. And the standard of living is going down as well. Coincidence? I think not. Thats an interesting comment, Not sure I'd agree though... Ultimately the cost of production drives the selling price. Automobiles are ridiculously overpriced due to obseen labor, and profit requirements that have been inflated over time by unions and Execs. Thats what puts our standard of living down...companies chargeing the common man to much for nessasary products. Energy, Gas, food, realestate... Its all over priced, becasue the entire world has messed up our wealth distribution. We pay our Garbage men outrageous amounts of money, and we pay an unskilled Laborer crazy amounts of dough to assemble parts at a plant, Yet we pay EMT's & Nurses who could save our life and deal with tradgedy every day like crap.... We pay a dishwashers minimum wage, but a janitor at a school or plant $20/hour Its messed up, and I don't think Unions are helping that very much. Trades seem to be on the level as far as fair pay for work, arguably doctors & Surgeons seem to be paid fair. You know what would be really cool, but it would never fly.... A federal wage cap, and profit share requirement for all business in Canada. Put quite simply... No man woman or child can make more then 1 million dollars a year, (owner ship excluded) That coupled with a 15% company profit margin cap...meaning any profit brought in over 15% has to be divided amongst the labor. That would evenly distribute the wealth, that would make a lean mean work force, no union needed, and the economy fixed. But we all know thats to simple...that would never happen. But wouldn't it be nice? Every person working getting a fair share of Extra cash to spend...no fat cat execs makeing $20 million dollars...all comapnies held to the same profit requirements meaning the only competative edge left is the quality of your product. Thats fair and thats why it'll never happen. To much greed out there from the ground up....but just Imagine. Cue the music Edited March 14, 2009 by Cookslav
Tybo Posted March 14, 2009 Report Posted March 14, 2009 He, who has the biggest piece of pie when he dies win.
jnic Posted March 15, 2009 Report Posted March 15, 2009 the gm employees have had it to good for to long, time to give up all of the extras to save their job. you would almost think they are part of the senate or teachers.
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