Will more money solve this problem ?

[Beans]

A Modern Parable.

 

A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

 

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

 

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

 

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing.

 

Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

 

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

 

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

 

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters.

 

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

 

Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.

 

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India

 

Sadly, the End.

 

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US, claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

 

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last quarter's results:

 

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

 

Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses... and now wants the Government to 'bail them out'.

 

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY

 

 

 

You could easily add GM & Chrysler in the race too!!!!! and get the same results...

[Fisherman]

Man you hit that one square on the head, something like the way Government does thing, if it doesn't work, hold a royal commission.

[OhioFisherman]

LOL Great Norm! The problem is a little deeper than that though. Some bad moves by all parties involved, including our government. Maybe the auto companies spent this election cycles campaign contributions to charter jets to fly to Washington? That would really tick off the powers there.

 

My personal favorite is when they put taxes on the people to build stadiums for billionaires to sit in and watch their millionaire players.

[crappieperchhunter]

Good one beansie!!!

 

A sign of the times I am afraid. You could insert the name of the printing company I have been with for the last 27 years in the place of any of the big 3 you mentioned.

 

I'm just hoping I make it to retirement like you.... before my company tanks as well.

[2 tone z71]

wasent Ford the only one who refused the handout yesterday ,dident they tell the senate they dont need there Money,GM can go bankrupt as fas as im concerned,on one hand there stating they need so many millions to survive then the commercial following is a new SUV / Van piece of poop that they already built 10 like it before under 7 different badges Let em all sink

[Bernie]

Great analogy Beans!. It's what I have been saying for years but saying it like that makes it easy for everyone to understand.

[Whitespinnerbait]

Well said Beans............

 

 

The way I look at it is,, they gowged us for years .... now its their turn to suffer

[drwxr]

funny and sad at the same time but so true

[kemper]

I like it!

 

 

another solution would be to take a second look at the parts you are putting in cars. Dad drives a new Cadillac CTS, top model with all the bells and whistles and in under 100 000kms it has blown TWO wheel bearings, and had numerous engine repairs. He drives like an old man, and has a 6 km commute to work so it aint the driving that busted it. When you pay top dollar for a car like that, you expect it to work... I bet a BMW/mazda/ etc of the same value wouldnt have cost 5 grand in repairs already.

 

and for those of you that think its cheap to replace a wheel bearing (as it should be) it sure as heck isnt on this thing. Its one of those rediculous screw-you-over combo parts and a new wheel bearing means a new $700 wheel hub assembly

Edited December 4, 2008 by kemper

[Whitespinnerbait]

Dad drives a new Cadillac CTS, top model with all the bells and whistles and in under 100 000kms it has blown TWO wheel bearings, and had numerous engine repairs.

 

 

 

Kemper ,,your Dads not alone ,my brother drives and 07 caddy the reardiff was overhauled the ,the engine had to overhauled ,its had several re-call issues( AND IT ONLY HAS 9000KMS on it)

[kemper]

Kemper ,,your Dads not alone ,my brother drives and 07 caddy the reardiff was overhauled the ,the engine had to overhauled ,its had several re-call issues( AND IT ONLY HAS 9000KMS on it)

 

 

I forgot the best part... the rad was leaking... OFF THE LOT!

 

that fix was free..haha

[Flappn]

Great analogy. The Truth hurts.

[Dano]

Sink or swim, but please....not with my tax money. I wonder where are all the fat capitalistic pigs who preached that there should be no gov't intervention in the business world now? Greed is good my

 

Besides, GM said that a couple billion dollars will only get them through till January? what the heck? Why bother then, I dont get the point of it. Now they are all trying to save face by driving hybrids to the meetings instead of their private jets? They must think we are really stupid not to see through that charade.

 

Edited to add: Ooops, forgot to answer the question. No, it wont work. They need to make some fundamental changes, not only in management, but right through the whole process down to the guy pushing the broom on the production? floor.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Dano

[charlesn]

My 2008 Silverado has only 2400 kms on it. But it has been flawless to date. I really really like it. Even still has the new car smell. It tows my 20' bass boat like a dream and I just feel like a man again and not a soccer mom. haha j/k

 

I'm just curious what would happen to us that bought a new vehicle if the big companies go under. Our warranties are kaput I guess?

 

Or maybe whoever picks up the pieces will still honour the warranties?

 

Charles

[Flyboy]

Now they are all trying to save face by driving hybrids to the meetings instead of their private jets? They must think we are really stupid not to see through that charade.

 

A little more respects if they are carpooling in one hybrid instead of three? They are going to the same meeting, no?

[jediangler]

The Hybrids they drove to D.C. are a joke. The Malibu hybrid just restarts the car after you stop at a light or stop sign. The electric motor in no way drives the wheels. They still get to call it a Hybrid???

Great story Beans.

[Big Cliff]

Well put Beans! What I would like to know is if these companies are in so much trouble, how come all their CEOs are getting multi million $ bonuses?

[Terry]

the big three did dig their own hole

but I would love to see the playing field leveled and that North America could export the same number of cars that are imported from some countries...

 

oh and I heard Honda in Alliston cut out the extra shifts they had planned for Fridays and is shutting down the plant over christmas.....and more

Edited December 4, 2008 by Terry

[FISHINGNUT]

Well said Beans I agree 100% but isnt that the UNION way 2 people work and 7 watch !!!!!!!

[misfish]

the big three did dig their own hole

but I would love to see the playing field leveled and that North America could export the same number of cars that are imported from some countries...

 

oh and I heard Honda in Alliston cut out the extra shifts they had planned for Fridays and is shutting down the plant over christmas.....and more

 

The plant in Aliston is closed due to a crash on one of thier presses. Thats what I have heard.

Now for your ,North America could export the same number of cars that are imported from some countries...

 

Why should we allow them to import?????????????? Make it here, and sell it here. I have already stated this before.

 

Oh btw,Midland plants have layed off again and Doral is moving to Quebec.???????????????? Moving???????????what the heck is that????????????

 

 

Beans well said.

 

Just a side note,Ford has made the chess move that will either sink GM and Dodge or make them get thier act togheter. Ford after all,was the first,and may just be the one and only.

[Beans]

I really can't take all the credit guys but thanks...

 

I copied it from an e-mail I received from one of my old bosses

 

The one below is from the same source but by Michael Moore

 

Saving the Big 3 for You and Me ...a message from Michael Moore

 

Wednesday, December 3rd, 2008

 

Friends,

 

I drive an American car. It's a Chrysler. That's not an endorsement. It's more like a cry for pity. And now for a decades-old story, retold ad infinitum by tens of millions of Americans, a third of whom have had to desert their country to simply find a damn way to get to work in something that won't break down:

 

My Chrysler is four years old. I bought it because of its smooth and comfortable ride. Daimler-Benz owned the company then and had the good grace to place the Chrysler chassis on a Mercedes axle and, man, was that a sweet ride!

 

When it would start.

 

More than a dozen times in these years, the car has simply died. Batteries have been replaced, but that wasn't the problem. My dad drives the same model. His car has died many times, too. Just won't start, for no reason at all.

 

A few weeks ago, I took my Chrysler in to the Chrysler dealer here in northern Michigan -- and the latest fixes cost me $1,400. The next day, the vehicle wouldn't start. When I got it going, the brake warning light came on. And on and on.

 

You might assume from this that I couldn't give a rat's ass about these miserably inept crapmobile makers down the road in Detroit city. But I do care. I care about the millions whose lives and livelihoods depend on these car companies. I care about the security and defense of this country because the world is running out of oil -- and when it runs out, the calamity and collapse that will take place will make the current recession/depression look like a Tommy Tune musical.

 

And I care about what happens with the Big 3 because they are more responsible than almost anyone for the destruction of our fragile atmosphere and the daily melting of our polar ice caps.

 

Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.

 

And Congress must do all this by NOT giving GM, Ford and Chrysler the $34 billion they are asking for in "loans" (a few days ago they only wanted $25 billion; that's how stupid they are -- they don't even know how much they really need to make this month's payroll. If you or I tried to get a loan from the bank this way, not only would we be thrown out on our ear, the bank would place us on some sort of credit rating blacklist).

 

Two weeks ago, the CEOs of the Big 3 were tarred and feathered before a Congressional committee who sneered at them in a way far different than when the heads of the financial industry showed up two months earlier. At that time, the politicians tripped over each other in their swoon for Wall Street and its Ponzi schemers who had concocted Byzantine ways to bet other people's money on unregulated credit default swaps, known in the common vernacular as unicorns and fairies.

 

But the Detroit boys were from the Midwest, the Rust (yuk!) Belt, where they made real things that consumers needed and could touch and buy, and that continually recycled money into the economy (shocking!), produced unions that created the middle class, and fixed my teeth for free when I was ten.

 

For all of that, the auto heads had to sit there in November and be ridiculed about how they traveled to D.C. Yes, they flew on their corporate jets, just like the bankers and Wall Street thieves did in October. But, hey, THAT was OK! They're the Masters of the Universe! Nothing but the best chariots for Big Finance as they set about to loot our nation's treasury.

 

Of course, the auto magnates used be the Masters who ruled the world. They were the pulsating hub that all other industries -- steel, oil, cement contractors -- served. Fifty-five years ago, the president of GM sat on that same Capitol Hill and bluntly told Congress, what's good for General Motors is good for the country. Because, you see, in their minds, GM WAS the country.

 

What a long, sad fall from grace we witnessed on November 19th when the three blind mice had their knuckles slapped and then were sent back home to write an essay called, "Why You Should Give Me Billions of Dollars of Free Cash." They were also asked if they would work for a dollar a year. Take that! What a big, brave Congress they are! Requesting indentured servitude from (still) three of the most powerful men in the world. This from a spineless body that won't dare stand up to a disgraced president nor turn down a single funding request for a war that neither they nor the American public support. Amazing.

 

Let me just state the obvious: Every single dollar Congress gives these three companies will be flushed right down the toilet. There is nothing the management teams of the Big 3 are going to do to convince people to go out during a recession and buy their big, gas-guzzling, inferior products. Just forget it. And, as sure as I am that the Ford family-owned Detroit Lions are not going to the Super Bowl -- ever -- I can guarantee you, after they burn through this $34 billion, they'll be back for another $34 billion next summer.

 

So what to do? Members of Congress, here's what I propose:

 

1. Transporting Americans is and should be one of the most important functions our government must address. And because we are facing a massive economic, energy and environmental crisis, the new president and Congress must do what Franklin Roosevelt did when he was faced with a crisis (and ordered the auto industry to stop building cars and instead build tanks and planes): The Big 3 are, from this point forward, to build only cars that are not primarily dependent on oil and, more importantly to build trains, buses, subways and light rail (a corresponding public works project across the country will build the rail lines and tracks). This will not only save jobs, but create millions of new ones.

 

2. You could buy ALL the common shares of stock in General Motors for less than $3 billion. Why should we give GM $18 billion or $25 billion or anything? Take the money and buy the company! (You're going to demand collateral anyway if you give them the "loan," and because we know they will default on that loan, you're going to own the company in the end as it is. So why wait? Just buy them out now.)

 

3. None of us want government officials running a car company, but there are some very smart transportation geniuses who could be hired to do this. We need a Marshall Plan to switch us off oil-dependent vehicles and get us into the 21st century.

 

This proposal is not radical or rocket science. It just takes one of the smartest people ever to run for the presidency to pull it off. What I'm proposing has worked before. The national rail system was in shambles in the '70s. The government took it over. A decade later it was turning a profit, so the government returned it to private/public hands, and got a couple billion dollars put back in the treasury.

 

This proposal will save our industrial infrastructure -- and millions of jobs. More importantly, it will create millions more. It literally could pull us out of this recession.

 

In contrast, yesterday General Motors presented its restructuring proposal to Congress. They promised, if Congress gave them $18 billion now, they would, in turn, eliminate around 20,000 jobs. You read that right. We give them billions so they can throw more Americans out of work. That's been their Big Idea for the last 30 years -- layoff thousands in order to protect profits. But no one ever stopped to ask this question: If you throw everyone out of work, who's going to have the money to go out and buy a car?

 

These idiots don't deserve a dime. Fire all of them, and take over the industry for the good of the workers, the country and the planet.

 

What's good for General Motors IS good for the country. Once the country is calling the shots.

 

Yours,

Michael Moore

 

They want $18 Billion but can be bought out for $3 Billion ???...BTW...NF

Edited December 4, 2008 by Beans

[jediangler]

I know he's not popular with everyone, but I like Mike .

[holdfast]

And do you know what really makes me want to Puke. The Coalition actually convinced the not so smart, that a Bailout (Stimulation package for the big 3 and forestry) is what our Economy needs before Congress has even made a decision for themselves. SUCKERS.