Outboard motor on my canoe

[Shortflatoar]

I have an Esquif Propector 16 Royalex. I have moving water /rapids that I need to move up. On my GPS in was clocked doing 18 Kms going down them.  My canoe is rated for 1000 lbs.  I want to add an outboard. Esquif says 2 hp rating for the canoe.  I’m thinking a 4 hp will be enough to push we up the rapid.  The 4 hp is 60 pounds.  The canoe is not a flat back.  

Im looking for some insight on mounting, if it should be mounted on the side or back.  Do you think it will have enough thrust to move a fully load canoe up the rapid and should I mount a pontoon for stability? 

 

[Terry]

with my 2.5, im lucky to get 9km out of it

[Old Ironmaker]

We had a camp on The Ottawa river and ran rapids regularly in 12' tinnies and 9.9's. All fast water is not created equally. Whether or not that 2HP will move the canoe upriver will depend on how fast the river is in various sections. We would learn where the "slower" water was and run those areas depending on weight. So even if you know the total weight  you would have to know GPM of water flow you are travelling into to determine thrust required. 

I wouldn't want to run rapids in a canoe without a transom mounted engine largely due to balance, no everything to do with balance including bow ballast. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Old Ironmaker

[dave524]

Ran an air cooled, 25 pound Johnson 2 HP on a side bracket on a handmade 16 fibreglass covered cedar strip with a good beam and depth, a 65 pound canoe for quite a few years.  At anything near full throttle maneuvers had to be gentle, IMHO, 60 pounds is  too much for a side bracket more so than the horsepower, yeah I'd definitely want the extra stability of outriggers .

[Old Ironmaker]

30 minutes ago, dave524 said:

Ran an air cooled, 25 pound Johnson 2 HP on a side bracket on a handmade 16 fibreglass covered cedar strip with a good beam and depth, a 65 pound canoe for quite a few years.  At anything near full throttle maneuvers had to be gentle, IMHO, 60 pounds is  too much for a side bracket more so than the horsepower, yeah I'd definitely want the extra stability of outriggers .

Wouldn't outriggers on a canoe be very vulnerable to damage running over and between rocks in fast water Dave? I know there were many spots the 12 and 14 footers just fit between, just. I would think if I had an outrigger on a canoe it would be hitting surface rocks steady. But I'm picturing the Ottawa not babbling brooks that I know guys call rapids up north and freak over. 

[dave524]

51 minutes ago, Old Ironmaker said:

Wouldn't outriggers on a canoe be very vulnerable to damage running over and between rocks in fast water Dave? I know there were many spots the 12 and 14 footers just fit between, just. I would think if I had an outrigger on a canoe it would be hitting surface rocks steady. But I'm picturing the Ottawa not babbling brooks that I know guys call rapids up north and freak over. 

No question an outrigger is not a good option if the flow has a lot of rocks, I was just saying that a 60 pound , 4 horse outboard hung off centre on a side bracket is a recipe for a capsize based on my experience. FWIW, you only need one outrigger, the flotation of the pontoon on the outrigger keeps the canoe from tipping one way and the weight of the pontoon off to the side keeps it from tipping the other way. 

[pics]

I mounted my 2.5 hp motor onto the side of a sportspal and it would roll over without anyone in it.. 

[Old Ironmaker]

1 hour ago, dave524 said:

No question an outrigger is not a good option if the flow has a lot of rocks, I was just saying that a 60 pound , 4 horse outboard hung off centre on a side bracket is a recipe for a capsize based on my experience. FWIW, you only need one outrigger, the flotation of the pontoon on the outrigger keeps the canoe from tipping one way and the weight of the pontoon off to the side keeps it from tipping the other way. 

Without ever seeing a side mount putt, putt on a canoe it just doesn't look stable in  my mind, yes especially a 60lb unit. Heck I had enough of a challenge paddling a canoe and keeping dry with just the 2 of us in it. 

OP what about a good hi output electric. 100 lb thrust might do it again depending on the rapids. I see this is your 1st post. Welcome aboard if you are still here. 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Old Ironmaker

[Shortflatoar]

Hey We always use sneak lines when moving around rapids.  We are thinking a 4 hp Honda. A heavy duty side mount with a pontoon to stabilize is the current thought.  For the rear mount Im looking for one but I still haven’t found one yet.  I do think the pontoon concept is a good idea.  

[NAW]

I may be wrong, but I don't think prospectors have a keel to keep them tracking straight.  Your is a smooth bottom correct?  The one I rented 2 years ago didn't have a keel, it would turn on a dim.  A strong wind would cause it to turn right around when I was solo paddling it.    That being said, an outboard on it might be a bit sketchy hanging off the side   Hard to keep it straight, and very tippy.  You might want to consider a pontoon for stability. 

 

I made a very simple motor mount for my springbok that I bolted right through the gunwales.  Just using wood 2x4, with (3x) 10-24 bolts on each side.  I ran a 4hp motor on it for a few trips, and it worked great.  Mostly used it for the electric trolling motor though.   I don't know what my top speed would have been.  Pretty quick, but certainly not 18km/hr..  

 

So my guess is that you will go pretty darn good with a 4hp on your canoe.  My springbok is about 80lbs. 

The springbok is extremely stable, but with 4hp hanging off the side, it would rock right up on its side when empty and almost flip over.  Your canoe will most likely roll over if you don't counter balance it. 

 

Good luck man,  Post pics when you get it mounted! 

 

 

[Shortflatoar]

The debate stems from our annual paddle on the Churchill River in Labrador.  This year the flow of water was extremely high since the filling of the reservoir behind Muskrat Falls.  The last day is lining from hell and the conversation has became more about moving fully loaded canoes back up river and out instead of lining out at the bottom.  Thus navigating one section of river with moving water but no obstacles that can’t be easily avoided.  Winter project.  I will keep you all posted with what we come up with.

[BUSTER]

KKK long shaft propeller

 

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[woodenboater]

unless it was a simple run up something like Five Fingers during summer levels, I'd suggest learning how to line your canoe up rapids. Unless the shore is a mess of boulders, it's an easy job. also, unless you're good at reading water, a motor could get you into trouble. Running moving water, and understanding its features is an art.

 

walk the thing, would be my advice

[Shortflatoar]

I have logged seven trips down the Churchill River now at 255kms per trip.  We line the big rapids, shoot the modest ones.  I’m a licensed wilderness and fishing guide in NL.  The reason for the question is to look / pick the brains of the experienced  for options to increase the experience, lessen the risks of moving people and gear on moving water. Adventure tourism and remote fishing will always have a level of excitement and it’s our job to mitigate the risk.  This is not the Thunder Dome.. two people enter.. two must leave.. safely. 

[Terry]

I do not think you will go fast enough a square back one with  4 hp will do about 18kph but that would just have you standing still on a 18k rapids. And very unstable

 

[SirCranksalot]

You'd be pushing your luck,IMO, even with a transom mount. A canoe can turn and flip very quickly when going against current. 

My suggestion---learn to pole like the natives showed the voyageurs. Quite commonly practiced in Maine these days.   A great skill for a wilderness guide to have. You will impress your clients!!

 

 

[Chuck Enwinde]

Guessing 18k was the top speed and not necessarily the speed you'd need to overcome to go up.  Going up you can take your time and pick the best line.  Going down things happen fast.    That said, in a fully loaded canoe I think it will be one of those battles where you're watching the shoreline trying to figure out if you going forwards or backwards.   If you try it,  i'd like to hear how it goes.  You could add dual 3hp's for about the same weight and it would solve the balance issue, but something tells me it's a bad idea lol.    

[porkpie]

Shooting rapids with a motorized canoe is done regularly.  Most often with a flat stern freighter canoe and a 20hp outboard.  I’ve seen natives do it in their bigger canoes. I’ve done it in a smaller flat transom canoe with a 5hp and it was sketchy trying to power up in smaller flows and barely enough.  You’ll also need to carry at least one extra prop because inevitably you’ll hit rocks.   I’ve spent some time in a canoe with a side mount outboard.  Fine for smooth waters, no way I’d have gone up or down swift water with it, and that was a 2 horse Johnson.  A modern heavy 4 stroke, no way!   I did run a 3.5hp merc four stroke on a square stern 14 foot sportspal wide transom for a few years and that went pretty well and was very stable.  Also darn quick, but they are set up to be slow, stable, dumpy boats and they aren’t meant for running rapids.  Anyway if you do it let us know how it works out, but in my opinion you’ll need to stabilize or you’ll end up in the water with a side mount!

[Shortflatoar]

The advice I have received really has reaffirmed my thoughts that unless I totally reinvent my system... different boat, more powerful outboard that this is not going to happen safely every time.  

Thanks for the advice,  we do take a 24 foot Lund with a 60 hp up and down the river safely and something between this and my 16ft Esquif will probably be where I will land.  

 

 

[porkpie]

If you can find a nice mid sized freighter and put a 15 horse on it and bring extra props you’ll probably do just fine.  It’d be easy to tow behind your big boat!  I was on the Cheepas once when the natives dumped one running rapids though, so even freighters aren’t a foolproof system like with any boat and varying current! 

Edited August 26, 2019 by porkpie

[Old Ironmaker]

On 8/22/2019 at 7:26 AM, Shortflatoar said:

I have logged seven trips down the Churchill River now at 255kms per trip.  We line the big rapids, shoot the modest ones.  I’m a licensed wilderness and fishing guide in NL.  The reason for the question is to look / pick the brains of the experienced  for options to increase the experience, lessen the risks of moving people and gear on moving water. Adventure tourism and remote fishing will always have a level of excitement and it’s our job to mitigate the risk.  This is not the Thunder Dome.. two people enter.. two must leave.. safely. 

I wouldn't want to be experimenting too much. My "Adventure Tourism" addict Sister in Law can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Her latest "Adventure" was to ride a white horse, she specified white" on a beach. After the 3rd time she fell off the thing doing a modest trot the guide tapped out. She couldn't make it 100 feet up  Machu Pichu.