Legal or Bull?

[smitty55]

 

Now I'm certainly no lawyer, but knowing the owner of this property my vote would be a big Bull. This guy is well known to be really full of it, and will lie through his teeth to anyone, including a judge in his separation hearing. This isn't the first time he has put up signs at the entrance to his land and he knew they were a crock. Several of us locals have paid to hunt his 200+ acres over the years but after dealing with his crap and lies too many times none of us have anything to do with this jerk anymore. For example, we fixed up roads and trails, put stands up etc and then the next thing you know I've got pictures of guys I don't know tromping by our stands with a rifle in hand when the only big game open was bear. He didn't even have the decency to inform us. Then he gives a couple of "friends" of his permission to hunt his property and still doesn't tell us. That was the last straw for us, so we went in and cleared out all our stands and feeders and haven't talked to him since. It's really too bad because it's a nice property and only a mile up the road. This guy even moved his property line in the middle of the bush so he could justify dropping trees that weren't even on his legal property.

 

I've never seen or heard of anything like this before and a google search came up empty. So I'm hoping someone here might be knowledgeable in these matters. I just noticed this sign today on a cable across the entrance. He doesn't even have no trespassing signs up.

 

Tks for any input.

 

Cheers

[FloatnFly]

its bull. the worst that can happen to you from authorities is you get a trespassing fine. This sign is a scare tactic.

[Rod Caster]

This guy sounds like a lunatic. All you'd have to say is you never read the sign...not that it's a legitimate contract anyway; I'm sure a judge (if it ever got that far) would dismiss it quickly

[John Bacon]

It's bull. The only way he can get money from you for trespassing would be to sue in civil court. In order to sue in court, he would have to prove damages. E.g if he rented his land to some hunters, but they cancelled their trip because you had been hunting there without permission, he could sue for lost revenue. He is not going to be able to collect $5,000 just because you set foot on his property.

 

You could also be fined for trespassing. But that is completely different. The landowner doesn't collect fines, the government does.

[irishfield]

Good for a chuckle, but almost think he's done some research for the verbage considering payment in gold.

 

Now that I have my original 1886 land patent in my hand, for my property up North, I can actually refuse access to even a CO or Law enforcement as they have no right to enter under the king's law, which is valid forever, and forever hasn't come yet!

[Old Ironmaker]

Anyone can go to any printer and spew out a few or more official looking signs. Just remember to throw in a "shall, within, not with standing and a dozen hereins" and presto you are a legal professional.

 

I don't hunt but have to ask you why the owner of the land that has given you guys permission to use his land is obligated to notify you if he has given others permission to use it as well?

 

That I don't get Smitty. It's his property to do with it what he wishes, no? If you put a tree stand up on his land and you don't pay a lease or rent is it his stand? If you do pay him that's different.

[Old Ironmaker]

Good for a chuckle, but almost think he's done some research for the verbage considering payment in gold.

 

Now that I have my original 1886 land patent in my hand, for my property up North, I can actually refuse access to even a CO or Law enforcement as they have no right to enter under the king's law, which is valid forever, and forever hasn't come yet!

Forever until they make an amendment to the law. There is no forever. Let them show probable cause to a Judge that criminal activity "may exist" and you are raided just like anyone else. You aren't that naïve are you Wayne.

[FloatnFly]

Good for a chuckle, but almost think he's done some research for the verbage considering payment in gold.

 

Now that I have my original 1886 land patent in my hand, for my property up North, I can actually refuse access to even a CO or Law enforcement as they have no right to enter under the king's law, which is valid forever, and forever hasn't come yet!

Kings deeds are fun aren't they. Theres a property I fish where the owner has a Kings deed that includes the river bed.

[manitoubass2]

Good for a chuckle, but almost think he's done some research for the verbage considering payment in gold.

 

Now that I have my original 1886 land patent in my hand, for my property up North, I can actually refuse access to even a CO or Law enforcement as they have no right to enter under the king's law, which is valid forever, and forever hasn't come yet!

Hahaha thats pretty cool!

[netminder]

Looks like this guy Googled some right wing nutjob homesteader's legalish looking template and put his own words on it. This definitely isn't legally binding.

 

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/notres.shtml

Edited February 14, 2016 by netminder

[porkpie]

Looks like this guy Googled some right wing nutjob homesteader's legalish looking template and put his own words on it. This definitely isn't legally binding.http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/notres.shtml

Psh... Of course it is. Magna Carta, without prejudice. Look it up brah!!

[Rod Caster]

Free man on the land!? It kind of sounds like one of their tactics

 

I knew a guy in north bay who tried to use the Free Man On The Land system to squat in and take "ownership" of a house that was for sale. He lost everything.. Not that he had much to start with, that idiot . This stuff works in some places in the U.S. apparently but up here it's completely invalid

[FloatnFly]

Free man on the land!? It kind of sounds like one of their tactics

 

I knew a guy in north bay who tried to use the Free Man On The Land system to squat in and take "ownership" of a house that was for sale. He lost everything.. Not that he had much to start with, that idiot . This stuff works in some places in the U.S. apparently but up here it's completely invalid

 

 

down in Florida, you're at risk of losing your house to squater if you're gone for a week

[smitty55]

Anyone can go to any printer and spew out a few or more official looking signs. Just remember to throw in a "shall, within, not with standing and a dozen hereins" and presto you are a legal professional.

 

I don't hunt but have to ask you why the owner of the land that has given you guys permission to use his land is obligated to notify you if he has given others permission to use it as well?

 

That I don't get Smitty. It's his property to do with it what he wishes, no? If you put a tree stand up on his land and you don't pay a lease or rent is it his stand? If you do pay him that's different.

Of course it's ultimately his right as landowner. But this is a local guy who tries to come across as a friend over the 15 years different bunches of us have paid him for hunting rights. It's just common decency I would expect from someone I've shared plenty of beer with.

Here's the quick story. 6 years ago his property is just sitting there. So I offer him $1000 for 4 of us at $250 each. Fine, he's all happy. Two years later 2 guys can't continue. So early summer I phone Kev and inform him that I will try and fill the spots or maybe he knows someone. Cool. Then the rest happened after we found sign of others on the property early fall and he finally returned my calls. Yea he says, "I've got a cousin and his bud I've given hunting rights to" . Fine, we would have been happy to team up with the lads and share our knowledge and 4 stands. But no, he can't bother to give me a simple phone call. Then he goes on to say for the two of us who did all the work to fix up his property the price is now $500 apiece. Pretty easy to figure out what he's up to. CYA. Bottom line, the guy is a sleazeball. Always has been. Much as I enjoyed hunting a few minutes up the road not having to deal with him anymore is worth it. Karma is a bugger they say.

 

I drove by the lane today and noticed the sign at the cable. I backed up and drove in for a look see. I had a good chuckle and had to take a pic. The more you read it the less sense it makes lol.

 

Cheers

Edited February 14, 2016 by smitty55

[netminder]

Personally, I don't understand people who get so defensive over their property with their neighbours. Where I grew up there was nothing more tacky than a no trespassing sign put up in the middle of the bush or along the side of a remote backroad. You'd hope people would be respectful enough of other people's property to not cause any harm, but also know to ask a landowner you didn't if you wanted to hunt or fish on their property. I'm not a hunter, but if I had 200 acres not being used I'd have tough time turning people away or even asking a fee for them to use, as long as they ask. This was basically the case for my family growing up. Trespassing signs were blamed on newcomers or "citiots" who didn't know how things operated, or had something to hide.

 

Maybe I was lucky (or just ignorant) as a kid, but property lines didn't mean much and as long as there was no one there to oppose it i would ride my bike or fish on my neighbour's property pretty much whenever I wanted. Of course we knew our neighbours personally and it was almost expected that people would "tresspass". I understand people have the right to allow or disallow anyone you want from using your property, but you don't need to be so confrontational about it.

[KLINKER]

I gave a guy permission to hunt here, never saw him here but everybody he knows showed up and one of them stated outfitting hunts here. what the hell.

 

When a farmer found hunters car in his lane he called his friend up and brought in some heavy equipment, hunters had to pay the time on it because they parked in the way holding up the machine. $100 an hr. easy money.

[aplumma]

Personally, I don't understand people who get so defensive over their property with their neighbours. Where I grew up there was nothing more tacky than a no trespassing sign put up in the middle of the bush or along the side of a remote backroad. You'd hope people would be respectful enough of other people's property to not cause any harm, but also know to ask a landowner you didn't if you wanted to hunt or fish on their property. I'm not a hunter, but if I had 200 acres not being used I'd have tough time turning people away or even asking a fee for them to use, as long as they ask. This was basically the case for my family growing up. Trespassing signs were blamed on newcomers or "citiots" who didn't know how things operated, or had something to hide.

 

Maybe I was lucky (or just ignorant) as a kid, but property lines didn't mean much and as long as there was no one there to oppose it i would ride my bike or fish on my neighbour's property pretty much whenever I wanted. Of course we knew our neighbours personally and it was almost expected that people would "tresspass". I understand people have the right to allow or disallow anyone you want from using your property, but you don't need to be so confrontational about it.

While it worked in days of old it does not work in today's society. I have 20 acres that is huntable and it is posted for legal reasons. I have had people go on the neighbors property and cut a shooting lane thru my property facing my walking trails. I have found tree stands with people in them leaving trash and stuff all over the ground. I had a neighbor get sued for the injury of a trespasser on his property. While he won it cost him money and a lawyer. It is better to post it and allow only the people you can trust to be in back woods and be thought an unfriendly neighbor than the legal possibilities that now occur. Yes I do remember and long for the good old days.......

 

Art

[Old Ironmaker]

Art hit the nail on the head when his neighbor was sued by a trespasser. It is all about liability today. When there are firearms involved liability insurance isn't cheap. My Uncle in Southern Illinois has more than 500 acres down there. Posting signs is not enough he has to put a notice in all the local newspapers in the county stating the same. The newspaper I read had 4 full pages of NO TRESPASS No HUNTING notices. It's sad but it's the way today here as well as south.

down in Florida, you're at risk of losing your house to squater if you're gone for a week

We have had property in Florida since 88' and my sis in law lives there. What you said is not true. You have been misinformed.

[Old Ironmaker]

Of course it's ultimately his right as landowner. But this is a local guy who tries to come across as a friend over the 15 years different bunches of us have paid him for hunting rights. It's just common decency I would expect from someone I've shared plenty of beer with.

Here's the quick story. 6 years ago his property is just sitting there. So I offer him $1000 for 4 of us at $250 each. Fine, he's all happy. Two years later 2 guys can't continue. So early summer I phone Kev and inform him that I will try and fill the spots or maybe he knows someone. Cool. Then the rest happened after we found sign of others on the property early fall and he finally returned my calls. Yea he says, "I've got a cousin and his bud I've given hunting rights to" . Fine, we would have been happy to team up with the lads and share our knowledge and 4 stands. But no, he can't bother to give me a simple phone call. Then he goes on to say for the two of us who did all the work to fix up his property the price is now $500 apiece. Pretty easy to figure out what he's up to. CYA. Bottom line, the guy is a sleazeball. Always has been. Much as I enjoyed hunting a few minutes up the road not having to deal with him anymore is worth it. Karma is a bugger they say.

 

I drove by the lane today and noticed the sign at the cable. I backed up and drove in for a look see. I had a good chuckle and had to take a pic. The more you read it the less sense it makes lol.

 

Cheers

Smitty, his property insurance may have risen over the years thus the increase. I don't know but he sure doesn't communicate well. He didn't suddenly become an a hole after 15 years. I know these people too, they were always ass holes but I didn't want to believe it because they were my friends, so I thought. I had one "close friend" that I knew from birth, finally after 55 years I said " take a hike and stay take a hike". It upset me very much to tell him that. My 84 year old Mom told me " Son don't be upset, he was always an ass hole, it took you this long to see that".

 

I like that "take a hike" those weren't my exact words though. Auto correct here is funny. Kill a Musky used to become Kill a Muslim.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Old Ironmaker

[Rizzo]

haha that was an hilarious read...payable in gold coin...immediately. Great stuff and thanks for the laugh. I like the last part...fine goes up to a cool million for trespassing. Classic stuff...and ignorance of the contract doesnt count