2016 Baseball thread

[John Bacon]

Jays lose a fan favourite.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/baseball/so-long-kawasaki-why-blue-jays-fans-will-miss-a-mediocreinfielder-somuch/article28316845/

 

 

If you like Vikings series and baseball; this will be of interest.

 

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/josh-donaldson-set-for-cameo-on--vikings--tv-show-203335222.html

Edited January 22, 2016 by JohnBacon

[FrankTheRabbit]

Jays/Rogers management (or mismanagement) are poised to ruin the team.

[Acountdeleted]

Bautista just screwed over Shapiro. If they don't give what he wants fans will get made, if they give him what he wants, in 3 years fans will be mad.

[Steve]

we'll see how much all the hard core blue jays fans support the team when they are crap again....

 

man I was tired of all the verbal diarrhea spewed from jays fans when they were running through the playoffs.....

 

"jays fans are the best, blah, blah, blah...leafs fan suck, blah, blah, blah".....

 

we'll see an empty stadium again this year, I'm sure of it.

[FloatnFly]

we'll see how much all the hard core blue jays fans support the team when they are crap again....

 

man I was tired of all the verbal diarrhea spewed from jays fans when they were running through the playoffs.....

 

"jays fans are the best, blah, blah, blah...leafs fan suck, blah, blah, blah".....

 

we'll see an empty stadium again this year, I'm sure of it.

 

19,800 seats at the ACC vs 54000 at the Rogers Centre, therefore a crowd of 20,000-25,000 at the Rogers Centre makes the building look empty

[Steve]

if the ACC held 54K seats, it would still be filled every game.

 

in fact, I'd love to see how big of a stadium the leafs could fill on a nightly basis.

 

I'm guessing 70K per game would be do-able...especially if they structure their ticket prices like the jays do....I mean, you can buy a jays ticket cheaper than it costs to park in Toronto.

[Headhunter]

Bautista's contract demands, as best guessed at this time, are certainly going to give the Roger's folks fits, as they decide where to spend their money. Obviously the concern regarding his age and what his age will be when the contract ends are paramount to the discussion.

If I were to be running the team, I would just let all this slide for at least half of the season and see where they are as we near the trade deadline. At that point, they should know if the team is in a position to contend to the AL East. If they are contenders, sign Jose to what he wants, Rogers will more than make up that money in the final months of the season.

Should they not be contenders, it may well be time to re-think the team and look into trading pending free agents for prospects. The team will have had two years to prove that they can win with this group of players.

HH

[netminder]

If there was one guy on the Blue Jays who could make fans sympathetic to the new management it would be Bautista. I love him and want him on my team, but he has to be the biggest, most arrogant dude in Toronto. If the rumours about what he's demanding are true, he's delusional. I hope he has another career year, but if his age starts catching up to him and he regresses, it would be nothing but sweet, sweet irony in my mind. No one will give a 36 year old late bloomer $30 mil per for 5 years! The Jays took a huge gamble on him when they signed him before, so neither side owes anyone anything. If he thinks it has something to do with Rogers valuations he is smoking crack. The paydays players get has nothing to do with how well the owner is doing, it's what the market will bear. If he wants a massive raise and no one is stupid enough to pay him, well it's his loss only.

 

Truthfully though, I think the number that's been floated around is ludicrous and he's smarter than that. He wants to play and get paid as much as anyone else. If anything he's given a firm number and it will help in deciding who to sign between Bautista and Encarnacion since EE's camp has given the end of spring training ultimatum. That's what I hope has happened, but of course the media and fans will try to spin it so there's a good guy and a bad guy somewhere. I'm no fan of Rogers either, but the ball team is a plaything to them the same as any other owner. The players will get paid exactly as much as they're worth. They didn't over pay for Price and they won't over pay for Bautista, either.

 

Best case situation is he is allowed to walk at the end of the year, they give him a qualifying offer and he comes crawling back like Davis did with the Orioles after a long off-season. 2nd best is they get draft pick compensation.

 

The torch is getting set to be passed on to the the next generation of players here. This is quickly becoming Martin's, Donaldson's and Tulowitzki's team, with a lot of nice young talent waiting in the wings. It's been fun EE and JB, but the party's almost over.

[Acountdeleted]

The MOST I would offer Bautista is $100 over 4 years and even then that's a lot. $150 over 5 is just insane. Forget getting that anywhere.

[Headhunter]

Next years free agent crop is pretty thin. The "best" free agents available are EE and Jose... I wouldn't ba at all surprised if they both get what they want, but not likely in Toronto!

The only way Rogers can "step up" is to increase the payroll as close to $200 mill as they can.. otherwise, 2017 will be a re-building year.

HH

[netminder]

Another playoff run this year will likely garner enough good will to support a mediocre team and a quick re-build for 2017-2018.

[Acountdeleted]

The starting pitching has me so worried. I love Stroman but if he or Estrada lays an egg (even if its just a one year blip on an otherwise stellar career) next year, we could be on the outside looking in come October.

[AKRISONER]

dont be surprised to see jose in a yankees uniform. They are aging quick and dont have too many big hitters anymore,

[Thrilla]

Basically Jose said he is going to free agency lol

[fishing n autograph]

Fire sale in July

[John Bacon]

No one will give a 36 year old late bloomer $30 mil per for 5 years!

 

I don't think that there is any truth to those figures.

[misfish]

Once again, we have another pro player that is not in it for the game. Bautista, feel free to flock off.

[FrankTheRabbit]

Once again, we have another pro player that is not in it for the game. Bautista, feel free to flock off.

 

That's pretty myopic to say that. He's been with the club since 2008 and has developed into the Jays franchise player. He leads by example, provides leadership to the clubhouse (boycotted Sportsnet when Devon Travis was being taken advantage of), and has numbers to back up the contract that he's asking for. Plus, he's been playing in Toronto for a hometown discount.

 

Bautista is totally in it for the game and it will be clear whether or not management is serious with being contenders or being pretenders. You can't cheap your way into the playoffs, although Tampa has proven otherwise.

 

Although the Jays front office is brushing it off as rumours, but trading for Jay Bruce must have had some sort of traction and the fact that he's a natural right fielder shows what management was planning to do. You can't replace a guy like Bautista with a guy like Bruce...and plus the difference in salary between Saunders and Bruce...makes no sense at all.

 

What really got me was The Sun's Simmons who tried to compare EE with JB and how EE was such a better deal to sign than JB, except, "Bautista may be a better athlete than Encarnacion, a better base runner, an outfield arm of quality, a driven force of a ball player, a public face of a franchise, a daily topic of conversation."...how is that even a comparison???

 

JB has put in his time, put up the numbers, and deserves what he is owed. Case closed.

 

The Jays already screwed up by not signing Price, but signed for JA Happ, who we traded away for Saunders...

 

Rogers/Jays front office keeps saying they are serious with building a contender, but the evidence is to the contrary.

 

PS: We still need bullpen arms and another quality starter, which is how we last were left off when we lost to KC. All we've done in the offseason was inherit the losers from Cleveland.

Edited February 25, 2016 by FrankTheRabbit

[misfish]

No human being is worth that kind of money IMO. None. That was what I meant. Maybe over board on the comment, but it does piss me off when I see these kind of $ signs just to play a sport.

[lookinforwalleye]

 

That's pretty myopic to say that. He's been with the club since 2008 and has developed into the Jays franchise player. He leads by example, provides leadership to the clubhouse (boycotted Sportsnet when Devon Travis was being taken advantage of), and has numbers to back up the contract that he's asking for. Plus, he's been playing in Toronto for a hometown discount.

 

Bautista is totally in it for the game and it will be clear whether or not management is serious with being contenders or being pretenders. You can't cheap your way into the playoffs, although Tampa has proven otherwise.

 

Although the Jays front office is brushing it off as rumours, but trading for Jay Bruce must have had some sort of traction and the fact that he's a natural right fielder shows what management was planning to do. You can't replace a guy like Bautista with a guy like Bruce...and plus the difference in salary between Saunders and Bruce...makes no sense at all.

 

What really got me was The Sun's Simmons who tried to compare EE with JB and how EE was such a better deal to sign than JB, except, "Bautista may be a better athlete than Encarnacion, a better base runner, an outfield arm of quality, a driven force of a ball player, a public face of a franchise, a daily topic of conversation."...how is that even a comparison???

 

JB has put in his time, put up the numbers, and deserves what he is owed. Case closed.

 

The Jays already screwed up by not signing Price, but signed for JA Happ, who we traded away for Saunders...

 

Rogers/Jays front office keeps saying they are serious with building a contender, but the evidence is to the contrary.

 

PS: We still need bullpen arms and another quality starter, which is how we last were left off when we lost to KC. All we've done in the offseason was inherit the losers from Cleveland.

 

So you see/want a payroll of a half billion dollars....lots of evidence points to these aging big bats putting up decent numbers for a couple years and then the last 2/3 years they slow down a bit and all of a sudden you have a 30 million dollar DH who hits 220 with 15 homers...no thanks your gunna spend that kind of coin there are better places to spend it....and Price...217 million for a guy who can`t win a playoff game no thanks....

[netminder]

Gotta love the ever pessimistic Toronto sports fan... The sky is falling, these guys in the front office are new and I don't like them, our star is (rumoured to be) asking for way too much for a contract extension...

 

Let's try some positives here:

 

Offence: Do I really need to go through the list? 1 through 9 there are very few holes. The most you would get are 2 on days when Dickey is pitching and Thole would have to catch and bat 9th. And that's only until Travis comes back in May and Goins is playing 2nd. No leadoff hitter? What do you want out of a leadoff hitter, someone with speed? Why? when the 2-3-4 hitters combine for 120+ homeruns being able to steal a base is kind of a moot point. Just put Pillar there and be done with it.

 

Defence: On a day to day basis, Price did not win all those games in August and September. The defence did. Remember up until the trade deadline when we had Colabello playing left field and we had Reyes playing shortstop and pulling up on playable balls or letting slow rollers go between his legs? I seem to remember two legitimate position players coming in to fill those holes late in the year... hmm. Now, of course, one of them is gone, but when healthy, Saunders is more than serviceable in left. He'll get to just as many balls as Revere did by taking good routes and not relying on his speed to make up for not knowing where the ball is hit. The most under-rated, under-appreciated aspect of this team is the stellar defence. Martin, Smoak, Goins, Donaldson, Tulowitzki, Pillar, Saunders, Bautista. Which one of those guys isn't an above average to elite defender. Bautista is the only one who might be the hole, and he's hidden out in right field. Defence makes your pitching staff better.

 

Pitching: Yes, if Stroman and Estrada lay eggs the team is done. But if they're average or a little above average, this team will outscore a lot of teams on a regular basis. I'd be happy with one more arm too, but there were glimpses last year that Stroman was the true ace on this staff. Better than Price. In big games who was on the hill? Who clinched the playoff birth against the Yankees? Who started game 5 of the ALDS? Who laid an egg when there was a real game on the line, and not just another game in mid August? And there's another guy, Hutchison, who is due to break out.

 

Bullpen: If you want to be totally negative about it there is reason to believe theres a good chance Osuna might have a sophomore regression. But remember, this kid's been playing pro ball since he was 16. And don't under-rate the addition of Storen. He was a legitimate closer in Washington until Papelbon came around. If Sanchez gets put back in the pen, we then have Sanchez, Cecil, Storen and Osuna for late inning situations. All the starters need to do is get out of the 6th or 7th and we can shut it down much the same way KC did last year.

 

There is no need to think there's going to be a fire sale at the end of July. This team is going to be contending or be up 3-4 games in the east by the all star break. Give me a reason to think any of the other teams in the east are better overall teams.

 

As for Bautista and Encarnacion, this is going to be their victory lap in TO. There is reason to believe the National League is going to institute the DH rule next year. If that's the case, these two are likely going to fetch a pretty penny from probably about 12 NL teams who are desperate for a guy to DH. But the Jays cannot afford to have their team turn into the Phillies where we pay way too much for over the hill has beens. I hope they both have great years and go out on top and get paid billions of dollars next year. Their tenure is coming to an end. Like I said earlier, it's time to pass the baton.

 

My prediction: The Jays win the East by 5 games this year. To all you pessimists, see you in August when you want to jump on the bandwagon again.

 

edit: I don't know why I'm convinced I need to write novels every time this topic comes up. I guess I'm just passionate lol.

Edited February 25, 2016 by netminder

[FrankTheRabbit]

Good discussions, shows us how much we care for the team, which can't be said about Jays/Rogers brass.

 

Our batting line-up hasn't changed much since the last time the team played, but when all is said and done, pitching & defense wins games. Bats can be a factor, but is more often times negated by better pitching and defence and it was something we all witnessed vs KC. When Cecil was out, we had to get Cliff Pennington to pitch..that's just embarrassing, considering we're suppose to be a playoff contender, not barely scraping by.

 

Game 2 vs KC, we were up 3-0 with Price being dominate on the mound for 6 innings. Pop fly heads towards Goins and he got distracted and dropped the ball. It was all downhill after that. Even Martin had a throwing error on a simple play to third during the playoffs as well.

 

Price is an amazing pitcher and to counter saying that he can't win playoff games, Hutch won't even be able to help the team make the playoffs. Get to the playoffs first and then worry whether or not a pitcher can win games. There's no doubt that Price made a huge impact and was very instrumental in helping the Jays make the playoffs. He made the Yanks look like a minor league team. Front office didn't even bother making an offer and ends up signing Happ...just blows my mind.

 

Boston/Baltimore/Yanks have all shored up on pitching during the off-season and there's no way those guys are standing still letting the Jays repeat the success of 2015.

[leaf4]

Sign them to whatever they want for these reasons

 

a) its not my money

b ) rogers charges too much for everything they provide so they can suck it

c) he's put his time in and how is he any different now from last year where he hit another 40 home runs (5 up from 2014 actually)

d) the guy takes phenomenal care of himself

e) he's clearly the leader and heartbeat of this team, can always rally the troops be it with his words or actions, how can you justify tulo getting 16 mill and tell bautista "sorry buckaroo"

Edited February 25, 2016 by Lucas F

[netminder]

e) he's clearly the leader and heartbeat of this team, can always rally the troops be it with his words or actions, how can you justify tulo getting 16 mill and tell bautista "sorry buckaroo"

Because if Tulo is on he could be in the conversation for MVP next year. I'm not sure Bautista has it in him to be that good. And if he's asking for $150 over 5, quick math says he's looking for almost twice the salary Tulo is making.

 

If Bautista thinks the Jays will pay him anything north of $20 million per to close out his career he is sadly mistaken. Good luck elsewhere.

[John Bacon]

And if he's asking for $150 over 5, quick math says he's looking for almost twice the salary Tulo is making.

 

If Bautista thinks the Jays will pay him anything north of $20 million per to close out his career he is sadly mistaken. Good luck elsewhere.

 

Isn't that just a rumour? I know that figure has been floating around the internet; but, I don't think anything official has been announced.