Yellow Fever Posted July 18, 2015 Report Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Public service announcement for all to check your boat insurance This week my fishing buddy had a low life kid drive across his lawn and smash in to his boat which then smashed into his truck and then the house.The boat is a write off and the truck is heavily damaged, point is when he called his insurance it seems that when he bought his new boat and called to transfer his policy the insurance company did not increase the value so they are trying to pay him out half of what his boat is worth because that's what the policy is for...in my opinion the insurance company is negligent Edited July 18, 2015 by Yellow Fever
irishfield Posted July 18, 2015 Report Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Sounds like he didn't have an agreed value policy to start with. My policy lists the value of the boat, trailer, kicker motor etc and if it's stolen I get it replaced with new up to that value. If he had agreed value on the last boat they would have asked on this one. Did he even have replacement or just liability coverage? If you just cover "XYZ" boat with basic insurance, then no different than a car, they depreciate it's value starting the day it left the dealers lot and all they would also do for him if he only had liability coverage. Because it was hit by someone else, and not an act he had control over, they are paying what they think they can get away with for the hull. That said, his insurance company should be going to bat for him to be fully compensated for his loss and fighting the other insurance company to do so. It's not his insurance co that will be paying him in the end, it will be the kids insurance company that hit it. Edited July 18, 2015 by irishfield
Old Ironmaker Posted July 20, 2015 Report Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) It is my responsibility to know what coverage there is on any policy I have . If I buy anything to upgrade my boat, such as a new $1500.00 combo I call it in and give them a copy of the receipt. I can't see how you buddies insurance company is negligent. It's up to him to know exactly what he's paying for. And what exactly defines a low life, someone that has an accident? Being hammered and driving is no accident, it's an on purpose. And I can't agree with Irishfied more. He should get a new boat out of it, forget replacement. There isn't 'no fault" comprehensive as far as I know. Edited July 20, 2015 by Old Ironmaker
craigdritchie Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Sounds like he didn't have an agreed value policy to start with. My policy lists the value of the boat, trailer, kicker motor etc and if it's stolen I get it replaced with new up to that value. Even better is a full replacement cost policy. Same idea, but if it turns out the cost to replace the boat is higher than expected, you're not on the hook for the difference. The additional premium is very little ... well worth it IMHO, especially if your boat is made in the US and the replacement cost is subject to currency exchange fluctuations. Today's Canada-US exchange rate is sitting at almost 23%. A boat that cost $10,000 back in January at the boat show will cost $12,300 today, just on the exchange rate difference alone. Absolutely worth an extra $40 - $50 increase in premium. Edited July 21, 2015 by Craig_Ritchie
lookinforwalleye Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 And check your policy some if not all policies do not cover your rods and reels and electronics unless there is a separate rider on these.
spincast Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 When it comes to insurance, identify the coverage you want first, and then shop for the premium you are wiling to pay. There is a wide range of premiums because there is a wide range of options - most of which revolve around how much of the risk (read cost) you the insured is willing to assume in the event of a claim. There is a direct correlation between how much you are willing to co-insure (cost you will absorb) and the premium you pay. Then you can decidewhat trade off you are willing, or able to accept if and when a claim happens. Understanding the wording of a policy is your responsibility. Its a contract you are buying. If you aren't comfortable reading pages of legal jargon, use a broker and makes sure you get them to put in writing in an email any limitations and exclusions as compared to full cost replacement. Depreciation clauses can be very detrimental to your payment. I suspect that is contributing to the lower payout. Craig's point on the exchange rate is right on., and Ironmaker and Lookingforwalleye both have excellent points. You should have photos of all your upgrades, and your tackle, that you send to your insurance company with your renewal. Preferably via email- because then you have proof they knew the liability they are assuming. I don't suppose by any chance the boat was actually hooked to the truck at the time of the accident? If so there is a chance the truck's comprehensive will kick in and cover the additional loss.
Steve Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 the "at fault" drivers auto Liability policy will respond to all the property damage....the car, the boat, the house, and even the ripped up lawn. as for the boat owners insurance company being "in the wrong"....your buddy didn't pay for higher premiums, as the Insured value wasn't increased....so he wasn't paying for more insurance, but wants more insurance now? gotta love our society!!
Steve Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 sometimes agreed value works better on claims settlements....no need to determine the value of replacement cost... with agreed value you know exactly what you are getting... that can be better in most cases, unless your boat increases value, over and above the agreed value. then the replacement cost valuation is better... depends on the individual circumstance. i know from a claims adjuster's perspective (which I am not one of), agreed value is better, as all parties know exactly what is being paid out....no questions.
BillM Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Stupid question, but he didn't question making the same insurance payments on a boat that's worth XX more then the old one? How is that possible?
Steve Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 Bill, I hate saying the same crap you say...it makes me feel funny inside. :) Yes, his insurance payments didn't increase, because his insured value didn't increase.... Chances are, if he was insured by a Marine Insurance company, that company would have known (or suggested) to increase the Insured value...if he used a broker, the broker SHOULD have asked for a new valuation to insure against... BUT if a bank insurer was used, or a generalist property/casualty insurer who "offers" boat insurance was used, it is possible they simply did what they were told....they changed the insurance over from one boat to another...and didn't request to see if the value should be increased.....
craigdritchie Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) sometimes agreed value works better on claims settlements....no need to determine the value of replacement cost... with agreed value you know exactly what you are getting... that can be better in most cases, unless your boat increases value, over and above the agreed value. then the replacement cost valuation is better... depends on the individual circumstance. i know from a claims adjuster's perspective (which I am not one of), agreed value is better, as all parties know exactly what is being paid out....no questions. An agreed value policy is easy to settle - no argument there. If you have an agreed value policy that insures your boat for $20k, then if you should write the boat off you will get $20k - no haggling, no fuss, no hassle. That's the value you and the insurance company agreed to. The problem with it is that although your boat may not appreciate in value, the cost of replacing it with a new one will almost certainly increase. Write off your $20k Lund and guess what - the same boat might now cost $25k. Guess who's on the hook for the difference? It's not the insurance company. Actual value policies concern the value of your specific boat. Replacement cost policies concern the value of the new replacement boat. If your boat is stolen, what matters more? How much the old one was worth? Or how much it will cost to get it replaced? For a slightly higher premium, I still feel replacement value coverage is worth every cent because the cost to replace things always goes up. Think of how much you paid for your boat when you bought it, and go see what it would cost to replace it today. It will be higher every single time. Edited July 21, 2015 by Craig_Ritchie
Mister G Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Be careful as most replacement cost policies are for only a couple of years while the boat is new. Edited July 21, 2015 by Mister G
Woodsman Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 His insurance policy should not be a big factor in this case unless the driver that done the damage is uninsured. The claim in this case should be against the drivers policy.
Big Cliff Posted July 21, 2015 Report Posted July 21, 2015 His insurance policy should not be a big factor in this case unless the driver that done the damage is uninsured. The claim in this case should be against the drivers policy. That's what I would have thought too! I wonder if he might have grounds for a civil suit?
Yellow Fever Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Posted July 22, 2015 Some good points here however I,called my agent and asked his advice and his comment was if someone comes in his office and say they purchase a new boat and want the policy transfered then they automatically ask the value of the new boat,you have to understand that some people are not savy enough or have enough experience in these things to know what they are doing that they rely on the "pros" to give them advice. A lowlife is a person that does something to someone else and then takes off...reports the car as stolen and his father then backs him up on his claim despite the fact 10 people got his picture behind the wheel when he came back to get the bumper and fender that stil, had the licence plate on it....the police were already looking for him as he was tearing through residential zones. Sorry I don't mince words on people like this, you may have a different opinion until it happens to you.
BillM Posted July 22, 2015 Report Posted July 22, 2015 It doesn't matter who backs him up if there are pics of him on the scene while the car is mushed up into your buddies boat. Something here isn't adding up.
Yellow Fever Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Posted July 22, 2015 Bill...you are right, the father tried to cover up for his son saying it wasn't him and the car was stolen despite the entire neigourhood seeing and photographing the kid behind the wheel...thus the father has been charged with obstruction. The apple doesnt fall to far
BillM Posted July 22, 2015 Report Posted July 22, 2015 Man I hate scammers like that! I'm glad the father was charged. If that's the case, shouldn't his insurance cover your buddies boat?
Mister G Posted July 22, 2015 Report Posted July 22, 2015 Man I hate scammers like that! I'm glad the father was charged. If that's the case, shouldn't his insurance cover your buddies boat? A lot depends on who's car, etc........AND if the persons responsible doesn't have insurance or not enough insurance that's where your insurance kicks in. Years ago a kid hit my wife and didn't have enough insurance to cover the damage. It would of cost me $500 but he took his car to the same dealer to get it his fixed. When I explained to the collision manager that I have to pay $500 after he rear end my wife's car, he said "I take care of that for you" and put the extra $500 on the kids repair bill. WHAT A GREAT service manager he was.
Steve Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 The minimum legal requirement for liability insurance in the province of ontario (auto insurance I'm referring to) is $500K. However, $1M is the minimum any broker would offer. Either way, if he is Insured, legally, you will have $500K of insurance available. You can PM me if you require any assistance with this. Again, I'm not in claims, but understand the process quite well, and am a policy wordings guru. There is a little more of a process when your getting a settlement from a 3rd parties Liability policy, as opposed to making a claim on your own policy (making a claim on your own policy, from a 1st party standpoint, is much easier). Your buddies broker should be able to help him through this process (I hope he isn't insured with a bank).
John Bacon Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 Bill...you are right, the father tried to cover up for his son saying it wasn't him and the car was stolen despite the entire neigourhood seeing and photographing the kid behind the wheel...thus the father has been charged with obstruction. The apple doesnt fall to far Shouldn't the father and son both be charged with obstruction of justice? The son should obviously have additional charges for the accident too.
Mister G Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 The minimum legal requirement for liability insurance in the province of ontario (auto insurance I'm referring to) is $500K. However, $1M is the minimum any broker would offer. Either way, if he is Insured, legally, you will have $500K of insurance available. You can PM me if you require any assistance with this. Again, I'm not in claims, but understand the process quite well, and am a policy wordings guru. There is a little more of a process when your getting a settlement from a 3rd parties Liability policy, as opposed to making a claim on your own policy (making a claim on your own policy, from a 1st party standpoint, is much easier). Your buddies broker should be able to help him through this process (I hope he isn't insured with a bank). I believe what you are referring to is liability insurance for bodily injury, I'm talking about property damage.
Steve Posted July 24, 2015 Report Posted July 24, 2015 I'm not sure what you mean? If you mean the limits of Insurance I referenced above, $500K, or $1M, that limit is for both bodily injury, and property damage. But that limit is not independent. Ie, if you were negligent in a loss that caused $500K of Bodily Injury (you hurt someone) and $500K of Property Damage (part of you hurting someone also caused damage to someone property), you would need $1M of Liability insurance to cover the loss. Liability Insurance includes both property damage and bodily injury, not just one or the other.
Quickspence Posted November 12, 2015 Report Posted November 12, 2015 It appears to me that this is a pretty unusual claim. I am not an Adjuster, but I am a broker and one of my niches is Boat Insurance. As far as how they paid the truck and the house claim. Yes, the company who they guy was with would not deal with you personally, but they would deal with the other company who would represent you. So, your company would go after the other company for your damages. As far as the boat policy goes, it really depends on the company you were with. Most homeowners companies policies will cover small boats like 12 ft aluminum boats with 9.9's, even a little larger like up to a 20 or 25 Hp motor, for liability and for some damages coverage's. It is usually not much, $3000 or $4,000 maybe a little more but it is not designed to really cover boats. It is an accommodation only. Your boat should be insured with a Marine Insurance Company that knows boats and who's policies are designed to cover you and your boat. Generally speaking boats are covered for Replacement Cost for the first 3 years, then, as mentioned above, what is called Stated Value or Agreed Value from 3 to 9 years. At 10 years, the coverage then becomes Actual Cash Value. ACV means that they call several dealers and say what would you sell this boat for in this condition, with this equipment on it. Then you are offered the average of what they say. There may be some negotiation but not usually much. This is the way it "basically" works. There are always differences between companies. As far as Personal Effects goes, that varies by companies as well. In the program for Bass Boats that I run with Pacific Marine Insurance Managers and is approved for the Ontario Bass Nation members, we include $5000 contents and that is intended to cover rods, tackle, life jackets etc. It has a $250 deductible and the policy includes $2,000,000 Liability and a host of other coverage's designed for boat owners, not homeowners. If you are interested in the plan I offer, please go to the Ontario Bass Nation site and look under Member Benefits for the presentation. There are so many variables in this type of coverage and so many people that think they know what they want and are talking about. I know a lot but if I don't know, I always ask my company rep. to confirm the answer. There is a lot more to this then I can tell you on a forum. If you have questions, please email me at [email protected] , I would be pleased to answer any questions you have. I represent various companies that do boat insurance but the main one I use for Bass Boats is Pacific Marine Insurance Managers www.pacificmarine.ca
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