Health care system in Hamilton has let down my Mom amd the Family

[Old Ironmaker]

My 84 year old Mom that is in poor health lives in a retirement residence with my 88 year old Father in Hamilton. 2 1/2 weeks ago she fell in the apartment and was hospitalized in Juravinski as she broke spurs off her T-12 vertebrae. We were told by the Nurse Practitioner that thinks she is a MD that they were waiting for an opening in one of 2 rehab facilities for a 90 day assessment for rehab and to determine if she should be living in a continuous care facility. She developed an infection last week and was put in isolation. Yesterday while I was out I received a call from brother in Pt. Dalhousie asking if I could pick her up she was being discharged. By the time I got the message my father took her home by cab. My head was spinning trying to find out how she had a miraculous recovery in 4 days. Today after the CCAA worker left she fell again and rushed to General. My father was also injured trying to lift her up. She is in isolation again because guess what? She has an infection. I put a call out to the social worker on the ward as that is the only way one can get any information. I understand that if her MD had to discuss every case they have with family everyday there would be no time to practice medicine.

 

I called that Nurse Practitioner and had to hang up when I was leaving a message because I knew I was going to say something that would get me in big trouble with the authorities. I am playing telephone tag with the social worker for her ward at the General. My 88 year old father isn't able to understand anything that is going on, all he knows is that he goes to the hospital everyday after lunch sits for 2 hours and goes home. My Mother thought the Nurse was her Dr. when in Juravinski. I have Power of Attorney for them in Health care. I will be going into Hamilton tomorrow to see what in the hell is going on in that city. I didn't want to go today because I wouldn't accomplish anything except perhaps be escorted out by Security. I am shaking as I type this and have been seething all day.

 

Should I call a lawyer while everything is still fresh in everyones minds? I just want my parents to have a comfortable life with what life they have left. We are blessed to still have them with us. I am the only person my age I know that has not 1 but 2 parents still alive, rare indeed. A lawsuit isn't going to do anything for anyone but this isn't right. Someone at Juravinski F'd up big time. They knew I had Power of A but they got her out of that place as fast as they could. If anyone has experience with this and has advice please let me know. Via PM if you wish. Man where does it all end? This is tough on everyone. Mom has been in Hospital 40 months out of the last 50, she is constantly in and out of there. She should have been in a cont. care facility years ago but my father will not have it. He is as stubborn as a mule and selfish. It's time to put our foots down and get her where she can get proper care whether he agrees or not. He has told us that he will die without her, talk about the guilt trip, man what to do?

 

That's my rant for this week. Thanks for listening all. Sorry.

 

Johnny D

[woodenboater]

short answer, your mom needs help and that would be my priority as the next fall could be really bad. it's unfortunate your dad feels this way but it's totally understandable considering she's his life partner and the change is more than he can handle.

 

A friend's dad is slowly deteriorating from dementia and her step mom isn't too happy about my friend wanting to move him to a better facility in Toronto where she can keep closer tabs on him. somewhat similar and more to offer support that others are in the same boat as you.

 

you have my sincerest thoughts and I hope everything works out and keep detailed notes with times and names of staff.

[Moosebunk]

This is tough on everyone. Mom has been in Hospital 40 months out of the last 50, she is constantly in and out of there. She should have been in a cont. care facility years ago

 

John, myself and many here can likely empathize as this sort of frustration with our current Healthcare system is becoming more and more commonplace. It is true, people are simply pushed out the door as fast as possible, sometimes far too fast and without any long term plans or care. It's NOT going to get better.

 

This said, hospitalized 40 out of 50 months, you hit the nail on the head. What's done is done, and it's pretty clear you know what needs to be done for your Mother. Try to get her into a home and help prevent hers and everyone else's suffering.

[Big Cliff]

I wish I knew what the answer was!

 

When my mom (who was also 84) had a stroke the hospital wanted to send her home but she lived on her own and couldn't take care of herself, both Sue and I worked full time. We had already gone the route of PSWs come in to help her with bathing and things but she now needed someone available 24/7.

 

We knew we had to get her into a facility where she would get the care she deserved and needed but that was going to take some time. The hospital didn't seem to care and all the wanted to do was discharge her and get her out the door (all mom wanted to do was go back to her apartment).

 

I too had power of attourney and informed the hospital that if she was discharged I would go to every media outlet that would listen and tell them about our seniors getting dumped out the door and forced to fend for themselves. I have never seen such a quick turnaround in attitude, it seems the hospital wasn't too worried about a lawsuit but they sure didn't want negitive press.

 

Keep us posted, keep your cool, and I hope everything works out for the best.

[bigugli]

I wish I knew what the answer was!

 

 

I have never seen such a quick turnaround in attitude, it seems the hospital wasn't too worried about a lawsuit but they sure didn't want negitive press.

.

 

Negative press directly affects a hospital's bank account. Every bad story about poor care and neglect that hits the news impacts on the dollars donated to the hospital. many years back when I worked in Hospital admin, an affiliate hospital had a number of incidents where patients had escaped, wandered off, got lost, from the facility. The news had a field day and public donations to that hospital shrunk by more than 50% over the next 6 months.

All too often it takes being a squeaky wheel to ensure a patient is cared for adequately. I am not shy when it comes to advocating for my family member's care. By all means make as much noise as you think necessary.

[Old Ironmaker]

Bruce I remember reading somewhere each hospital in Ontario has what is called a Patient Advocate whom represents the patients best interests and is independent of the Hospitals administration. Is my memory accurate and what is their roll? I generally deal with the Social Worker as in The Hamilton Health Science each ward has a Social Worker. I talked to her today and wasn't able to give me any answers as to diagnosis and prognosis. She did tell me Mom is on a waiting list to go to a facility for a 90 day rehab and assessment to determine her capabilities. Deja Vu all over again, we were told the exact same thing 2 weeks ago before they discharged her after her miraculous recovery. I ask you here rather than PM you in order for all of us to be educated in these matters.

[DanD]

The best advice I can give in a situation like yours is (same as mine a couple years back); become the hospital's biggest pain in the ASS they have ever had!!!!!!

I won't go into details; but if I didn't act like a lunatic, at the hospital, in front of the attending doctor and nursing staff; they would have robbed us of the last few years of Dad being with us.

It got to the point of me threatening to have anyone charged with assault; if they tried to have Dad taken from his room, without my consent.

All they were concerned about was the procedure they performed was good and they wanted the bed for the next person. OK fine; but check my dad, I think he's had a stroke! The Doctor ask if I was a physician and if not leave the medicine too him. After me getting nose too nose with this jerk, he does examine Dad and starts to get real busy calling for nurses. After that everytime this "doctor" seen me in the hall, he would make every effort to dodge me; but Dad's care did step up a notch or two.

 

Dan.

 

Forgot to mention this; yes if you feel you and your family are being jilted by the medical staff; get a personal injury lawyer involved. My daughter is a personal injury lawyer and she's mentioned a few times that hospitals don't like visits from her.

Edited May 6, 2015 by DanD

[Rustic-Fisher]

Going nose to nose with a Dr in a medical setting is plain silly. You would be bounced out of that hospital within 5 Min, you'd possibly need a criminal lawyer after that.

[Sinker]

Going nose to nose with a Dr in a medical setting is plain silly. You would be bounced out of that hospital within 5 Min, you'd possibly need a criminal lawyer after that.

It wouldnt be silly if it was my mother/father that was being neglected. Id go nose to nose with aanyone for family.

 

S.

[irishfield]

Yep Shayne.. doesn't have to be a parent you're standing up for either. Luckily for me I always said good morning and good night to the security guards at Sinai.... it made it harder for them to throw me out! lol

[Moosebunk]

To report from some ER's and Outposts that despite many times over being...

 

Spit on. Punched, Slapped. Hair pulled. Name called. Burned. Pizzed, shart and puked on. Taken blood in the eyes. Kicked. Threatened. Needlesticked. Bitten. Sliced with a scalpel. Coughed on. Pus'd on. Hit on Stalked after work. Stolen from and vandalized, that... I've never been sued or disciplined for trying to take care of people. Thank goodness cause that would suck the most.

 

It would be best advised that upset folks direct any issues to management, other patient representatives and/or your MP's because, there's really already enough crap to deal with in the hospitals.

[bigugli]

A number of hospitals do have patient advocates of some sort or other. Effectiveness is a totally different matter from hospital to hospital. Some hospitals will work with them, some treat them as the enemy.

 

Don't shy from contacting and pressuring every avenue available to you. Call the director of nursing and the hospital administrators. Start calling the ministry of health. Get a hold of CH news and see if they want to run with this story of neglect. Forget the Spec, their management is hospital friendly.

 

You have POA. Demand that the hospital staff respect your wishes and concerns regarding your family's care. OF course, if your Dad takes your Mother home, there is not much you can do.

[Old Ironmaker]

Thanks Bruce. As for flipping out on staff that would be anger misplaced. It wasn't the front line workers that yanked her out of her bed, it was an administrator. If it was 15 years ago I'd probably be down the street in another Barton Street location, jail. I can't take care of anyone from the range. Cool heads prevail, no one listens to a maniac.

[Old Ironmaker]

I'm not calling you a maniac Dan. I can do a good Robert DiNiro and get my point across without being demonstrative. It's in my DNA.

[manitoubass2]

You need to vent you have my email and phone number brother.

 

Hit me up

 

Rick

[Reel Man]

It's shocking the drop in the level of care in our hospitals! They call it "managed care", meaning they 'manage' to squeeze out every possible dollar while providing the least care possible and get you out the door faster.

Recently in Milton hospital, my father (72) was sent to hospital by ambulance after being sick all night and unable to stand up let alone walk. After a few hours in emergency on a stretcher my mother (76) managed to get in to the hospital to see him. As she shuffled up to the desk with her walker and asked about her husband the ward nurse snapped at her "Is that his walker?" "No" Mum says "this is my walker". "Well" snaps Nurse Ratchet, "you need to bring his walker so we can get him up and moving and send him home" Explain to me exactly how you expect this 76 year old woman who barely manages to get around is supposed to strap another walker to her back and haul it in to the hospital?? Not to mention that my father is still unable to stand, let alone get up and leave! After much explosiveness and a call to our family doctor who thankfully is also a big-shot in the hospital Dad got into a private room and his blood infection was diagnosed and treated. Given her way that nurse would have sent him home to die.

As everyone seems to be saying the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I deal regularly with the hospital social workers and they've always seemed competent and compassionate to me but it's probably a toss-up one hospital to the next like everything else.

 

Good luck, thoughts and prayers are with you

[DanD]

Going nose to nose with a Dr in a medical setting is plain silly. You would be bounced out of that hospital within 5 Min, you'd possibly need a criminal lawyer after that.

 

Like I said I didn't explain everything that happened that morning. This doctor was trying to browbeat me into submitting to his decision to discharge Dad.

When he finally went too check Dad (which he had no intention of doing), he realized he'd screwed up and allowed my Dad to lay there without any attention, after having a stroke. Not one of the staff would look me in the eye, when they spoke to me. They all knew I had every right to fight for my Dad and that they allowed him to lay there oblivious to his condition. I truly believe my Dad would have died that day, if I didn't go nose to nose with that condescending prick.

 

Dan.

[Big Cliff]

 

Like I said I didn't explain everything that happened that morning. This doctor was trying to browbeat me into submitting to his decision to discharge Dad.

When he finally went too check Dad (which he had no intention of doing), he realized he'd screwed up and allowed my Dad to lay there without any attention, after having a stroke. Not one of the staff would look me in the eye, when they spoke to me. They all knew I had every right to fight for my Dad and that they allowed him to lay there oblivious to his condition. I truly believe my Dad would have died that day, if I didn't go nose to nose with that condescending prick.

 

Dan.

Similar situation while my mom was in, she would wake up feeling fine in the morning and by mid afternoon would be throwing up. This went on for 4 days and the nurses kept saying she had a touch of the flu.

 

I met up with the Dr. on the 4th day and he said the same thing, a touch of the flu. It wasn't until I started questioning him about changes in medications and dosages that he finally took another look at her chart. He immediatly revised her medications back to pre admitting and she was fine after that.

 

Sue laid in an ICU for a month waiting for a bed in Toronto General, every morning the Dr. would say "maybe today", meanwhile Sue was having more and more heart issues. I finally got pissed off and called the Ministry of Health and demanded to know why my wife was not able to get a bed in Toronto General for a much needed bypass operation, I gave them until 4:00 pm to get back to me with an answer or I was going to the media.

 

They called me back within an hour; apparently some Dr. hadn't filed the proper paperwork. She was transfered the very next morning at 9:00 am. The very first thing the cardioligist said when reviewing her chart was "nitro toxcicity, get her off it NOW before you kill her"! (That was Dr. Susan Lenky I really grew to like that woman)

 

Three months later after a quad bypass Sue was in hospital again in Milton with a sharp pain in her side, nothing to worry about they said, it's her appendix and they called in the surgeon! As they were getting ready to wheel her into the OR I started questioning the fact that "what about all these blood thinners she is on?". The Dr. and surgeon just looked at each other with the dumbest looks and wheeled her right back into emerge. They started her on plasma and aranged for her to be transfered to Toronto General because they needed a cardiology team standing by.

 

Whatever you do don't be afraid to DEMAND answers, (you can do it nicely) if something doesn't seem right or if you feel like you or a loved one are being swept under the carpet ask questions and don't stop until you are satisified with the answers you do get. If you don't understand what they are saying tell them that! The other thing I do now is hit record on my cell phone and just put it in my shirt pocket when talking with the Dr.. So many times we have come away from appointments not sure of everything we were told so now I record it.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Big Cliff

[SuperDave]

This is common practice these days. Unfortunately, people are discharged every day without consent. My mother in law was discharged in December, sent home without proper clothing or shoes!

[wormdunker]

I'm saddened by your story John. It's shameful what is going on in the hospitals these days. My parents passed away 16 years ago. I'm glad I didn't have to go through what you are experiencing. Big Cliff wrote a rather interesting post recently. Give me a call, I'm home till Friday, then back to Fort Mac.

[Moosebunk]

Whatever you do don't be afraid to DEMAND answers, (you can do it nicely) if something doesn't seem right or if you feel like you or a loved one are being swept under the carpet ask questions and don't stop until you are satisified with the answers you do get. If you don't understand what they are saying tell them that! The other thing I do now is hit record on my cell phone and just put it in my shirt pocket when talking with the Dr.. So many times we have come away from appointments not sure of everything we were told so now I record it.

 

Really sage advice.

[Old Ironmaker]

Thank you all for the wonderful advice as well as support. An update, first I have to say there are always 2 sides to a story. On Mom's day my wife and I visited the General in Hamilton to wish Mom a Happy day, as happy as one can be in hospital. She was in isolation with V.R.E. infection. We washed up and suited up. I explained to her I had a conversation with her attending Physician the day before. She was on a waiting list to go to a rehab facility for a 90 day or less assessment that would include physio to increase her strength and her progress would determine if she would be able to get home or enter a continuous care facility, exactly as was the plan when she was discharged the first time and was home 20 some odd hours before going back with another fall. She told us she wasn't going back to any rehab ( she was at St. Peters for 3 months in 2014), and she wasn't going to any continuing care place as she didn't have much time left with my 88 year old father and she would be going home as soon as possible. I got a call the next morning from the head nurse asking for someone to make arrangements to get her home or she would have to take a cab with my 88 year old father as she was being discharged. Now I'm in total disbelief, deja vu all over again. Apparently they send patients home that were in isolation the same day with V.R.E. and they would contact the retirement home for what precautions that they should take. My 2 brothers went into the hospital just in time to see her get into the wheelchair and be discharged. A heated conversation between staff and my kid brother ensued with him putting the Province, the hospital, the CEO of Hamilton Health Sciences, the Doctor, the Nurse Practitioner, the Therapist as well as the parking attendant on notice for future litigation. I tried to explain to both brothers she basically checked herself out of hospital, again, as she refused to enter the assessment program and come to find out she did the same thing the first round but didn't tell us that and staff didn't tell us that either. Mom may have always been weak of body but was always as smart as a whip and still is when she needs to be. She went home Monday and walked the 200 feet to the apartment and down to supper that night, she sounds wonderful and is happy. We must respect her wishes and hope for the best.

 

I'm burned out, this has been ongoing for the last 15 years, it took them 14 years of me pleading with them to leave their castle and go to an assisted living " retirement home" ($4500.00 a month by the way) Ambulance calls became weekly to put one or both of them back into bed when they fell, man that's another chapter to the saga of elderly family. If she wants to be home with her husband of 62 years and it kills her or both of them God Bless and enjoy what time you have left on your own terms. She's been home for 4 days, so far so good. If I don't accept her decision I'll be the one that needs to go to a continuous care facility.

 

Thanks all, hopefully we have all learned something from this story. I have come to realize many of us baby boomers have parents that never, ever had to deal with their elderly parents. Dad sort of immigrated from Italy at 18, he was born here and left Canada with Nona at 3 years old, when my Grandfather went to College (prison) in 1930, another interesting story for another time, Mom is from NY and came to Canada at 22. They visited back and forth but like many of my friends parents never had to deal with their elderly parents day to day because they came from overseas. I don't think putting the elderly on an iceflow is the answer but,,,,,,just trying to make myself laugh, I need one.

[Big Cliff]

Well my friend as I see it, you have done everything you can do to try to take care of them! Now sit back, respect their wishes, and make the best you can out of the time they do have left.

[Reel Man]

All the best Ironmaker. I understand your conflict. My father's in very poor health, recently had yet another fall and is now confined to the first floor of their home. Stairs leading into the house, stairs from living room to family room, doorways that won't allow his wheelchair. I swear the house is killing him. Not a chance in hell that he or my mother will consider giving up the house or going into long term care. "This is our home and we're going to die here!" I know they're going to die one day, I just wish they weren't so determined to speed the process along! Guess I got this stubborn streak somewhere! Anyways I hope your Mom and Dad can be comfortable and happy together for as much time as they have left.