Cookslav Posted January 21, 2013 Report Posted January 21, 2013 http://www.calgaryherald.com/entertainment/Idle+More+protests+gain+little+support+according+survey/7824883/story.html Some more intersting stats, An Ipsos Reid poll, done exclusively for Postmedia News, shows only 31 per cent of Canadians think shutting down roads and railways is a legitimate form of protest. Traffic and border slowdowns by protesting First Nations are expected around the country Wednesday. But disapproval doesn’t mean the public wants police to crack down. Most respondents (59 per cent) said if road and railway shutdowns occur, police shouldn’t arrest protesters; they should back off and let matters be resolved in other ways. “I think it reflects a certain level of sympathy with the (aboriginal) issue,” said Ipsos Reid CEO Darrell Bricker, “but also I think it reflects the legacy of native standoffs.” This cool-down approach is most favoured in British Columbia (where 75 per cent don’t want the police to make arrests) and Atlantic Canada (74 per cent), according to the poll. It’s less favoured in Alberta (where only 45 per cent would suggest the police back off) and Ontario (47 per cent). The poll surveyed 1,000 people online from Jan. 11 to Jan. 14. It is considered accurate to within 3.5 percentage points, 95 per cent of the time.
Cookslav Posted January 21, 2013 Report Posted January 21, 2013 http://ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5961 This is the Actual IPSO result as reported through them. Majority Says Most of the Problems of Native Peoples are Brought on by Themselves – 60% nationally, up 25 points from 35% in 1989 No additional taxpayer money should go to any Reserve until external auditors can be put in place to ensure financial accountability (81% nationally), with residents of Saskatchewan and Manitoba (92%) most in agreement with this and Atlantic Canadians (77%) and Quebecers (76%) least. This is where I see the largest hurddle to overcome will be....If the Idle no more movment is looking to Dr. Pamela Palmater to lead this there will be no resolve as she's been quoted MULTIPLE times as saying First Nations does "not need Canada Interfearing" Canadian Tax payers will never support further funding, or even the idea until external Auditors are allowed into the first nations books and there is a level of public accountability shown....which First Nations leadership does not support.
manitoubass2 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Posted January 21, 2013 huh? i went to a catholic highschool and IIRC, each native was paid ($40 weekly or monthly?) by the government if they had good attendance and uniforms were also covered every year, which weren't exactly cheap. my parents didn't get any help with the $1000 or so it cost for my uniform for 4 years? two of my buddies (one is 1/4 and the other is 1/2 native) are currently in school for nursing and neither one has paid anything out of pocket. actually, one of them spent over a year in school to become a cop and dropped out he simply changed his mind. why not, it's free? treat everyone as equals and get it over with already The moneys paid to bands is part of their agreement. Those moneys goes towards basically everything a civilization has, health care, education, social assistance etc. Natives do not pay out of pocket, because the band allocates a certain amount of what they have received to fund their members education. So in one essence, yes, it seems as if they are receiving free education. But on the other hand, it's being drawn out of funds from other areas. So it IS AT A COST, just not from your monetary viewpoint. But many bands have tons of requirements to get assistance attending school. Here, drug testing is required frequently, you must be in good financial standing ie. have your rent paid up to date, etc. I'm not speaking on behalf of every band though, I know, just like everything else, there are good and bad. But before everyone spouts off about taxes for the umpteenth time, remember, its an agreement made through the Queen, GG, and the Canadian government. Whether you agree or not. And somebody in this thread made an awesome point in regards to taxes... IF IT WAS FUNDED SOLELY ON TAX DOLLARS, AND THAT WAS REMOVED, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE YOU WOULD PAY LESS TAXES?
fishindevil Posted January 21, 2013 Report Posted January 21, 2013 http://ipsos-na.com/news-polls/pressrelease.aspx?id=5961 This is the Actual IPSO result as reported through them. Majority Says Most of the Problems of Native Peoples are Brought on by Themselves – 60% nationally, up 25 points from 35% in 1989 No additional taxpayer money should go to any Reserve until external auditors can be put in place to ensure financial accountability (81% nationally), with residents of Saskatchewan and Manitoba (92%) most in agreement with this and Atlantic Canadians (77%) and Quebecers (76%) least. This is where I see the largest hurddle to overcome will be....If the Idle no more movment is looking to Dr. Pamela Palmater to lead this there will be no resolve as she's been quoted MULTIPLE times as saying First Nations does "not need Canada Interfearing" Canadian Tax payers will never support further funding, or even the idea until external Auditors are allowed into the first nations books and there is a level of public accountability shown....which First Nations leadership does not support. yes i agree 100% with this....
ch312 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Posted January 21, 2013 The moneys paid to bands is part of their agreement. Those moneys goes towards basically everything a civilization has, health care, education, social assistance etc. Natives do not pay out of pocket, because the band allocates a certain amount of what they have received to fund their members education. So in one essence, yes, it seems as if they are receiving free education. But on the other hand, it's being drawn out of funds from other areas. So it IS AT A COST, just not from your monetary viewpoint. But many bands have tons of requirements to get assistance attending school. Here, drug testing is required frequently, you must be in good financial standing ie. have your rent paid up to date, etc. it doesn't "seem" like free money, it IS! it doesn't matter how the bands distribute the money, it's still FREE money that is simply handed over to natives. FREE money from taxpayers. if they get 1 billion dollars to distribute among each band, it's still FREE money no matter what it's used for. like i said, education for natives IS free. natives get FREE education and are PAID to goto school. you're telling me that it's fair for a native to get a FREE ride while many non native families are struggling to put their kids through school, if they can even afford it? if so, you really need to give your head a shake. i wasn't going to say anything, but figure i should before i'm labelled a "hater" or "racist".... my grandfathers brother was married to a native and lived on the six nations reserve for most of his life and had 4 kids. therefore, i've been visiting the reserve and have been around natives my entire life and continue to go there regularly. my opinion is based on what i've personally seen growing up, not based on media reports. the majority do not need any financial assistance, they simply take it because it's there. the self entitlement attitude is very strong...
mr blizzard Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Posted January 22, 2013 I did not get all the names from cbc north tonight but please try to get it on the computor. Stella a native was given x number of dollars every 2 weeks for what she does. The cheif offered her extra for an extra bit of work he wanted her to do. She refused and said this is to much money, it is better spent in our being native community. The other band members agreed and they went to the hall to talk to the cheif about this, he refused to show up and would not talk to the media. It is cbc north nwt. Thanks it is nice to see some of the conscientous natives are becoming aware that the cheifs are taking the cream off the milk.
iFish4real Posted January 22, 2013 Report Posted January 22, 2013 Natives are not being mistreated by our government, they are being mistreated by their OWN CHIEFS. The money is there and lots of it, it just gets distributed to a select few while the rest live in poverty. I have to say, I don't know much on this matter but I'll tell you what I know about this Attawapiskat place... For those of you who don't know, about 90km from the village, on their native land...there is the only diamond mine in Ontario. I had the chance to go work there for a while. Company that runs the mine is De Beers, probably richest diamont company in the world. The rocks they pull out of there ,they're saying, are the best and most expensive in the world because of clarity and quality. More then half of all workers there are natives from Attawapiskat, that was one of the deals mine had to make with them when they started digging and everybody there gets payed around $30/h or more. Another deal that the mine had to do was pumping millions of dollars from the profit into the village every year. The company I used to work for out of Timmins contracted some of the jobs in the village...first thing building companies were doing when starting a job was to fence the place so natives couldn't get in and steel everything...but they didn't even get the chance to finish the fence cause natives were steeling the fence posts and burn them, obviously easier then going to the forest and chop your own wood So, imao...with all the money that's being pumped there, if those guys live in poverty is because they chose to, and if their roofs are leaking is because they burned the shingles in their bbq's in the summer never thinking the winter will come again :D
Cookslav Posted January 22, 2013 Report Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) Natives do not pay out of pocket, because the band allocates a certain amount of what they have received to fund their members education. Kinda like OSAP...only my kids will have to pay it back plus interest. And why is that? Because they were born as my child....a 4th generation Canadian and not native. What’s more frustrating is my children will pay for the Native education of the next Generation. And why is that? Because of an agreement made in the 1800's by a queen of a nation we are no longer part of... (Oh and before I'm labelled a queen hater, or Euro hater to...I'm English....5 generations ago) Sure I believe in honouring your word and holding true to what you've agreed but there is something to be said about what this generation has agreed to with regards to any treaty... Which is absolutely nothing....not in my life time, nor my parents, nor my Grandparents life time have we written any treaties. But of course there have been new "interpretations" on old version of orgional treaties written long, long ago...in essence stretching the meaning to fit modern times. Allowing the lands to be shared is one thing, giving the rights to fish in order to sustain ones self is another. But "interpreting" the treaties so that sustaining ones self is now equal to earning a modest living by today’s social economic standard by commercial gill netting lakes in order to seek a profit....that’s stretching things. Living a traditional native way of life from the land in the 1800's didn't involve outboard motors, and mechanical net retrieval etc...Now don't get me wrong I think its perfectly fine to earn a living by modern standards. But how is it fair to get the best of both worlds? Self governance, sovereignty, federal funding, free social services, not having to pay taxes AND....Natives can utilize the lands fruit for profit in modern standard to trade in commerce? How do I sign up for this club?...can I earn my way in? No... Its a given birth right for only natives. A birthright that was granted on the back of decisions made in the 1800's by a queens country that no longer governs us yet the principles stands even today....interesting string of events eh? Idle no more is about not being complacent....or so I've been told. Well I guess if I had to choose between The evil right empire who "supposedly" wants to limit/control/end the FN treaties Or Supporting more of the same missalowcation, and prefered taxation treatment for FN's I guess I choose to be non complacent....I choose change, I choose the dark empire. Edited January 22, 2013 by Cookslav
Musky or Specks Posted January 22, 2013 Report Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) [Please note that the below opinion piece was NOT written by me. It was written by Canadian-Cree Anthony Sowan and can be found here: http://www.facebook.com/tim.graham.1840/posts/10152413555635652 Since the post requires a Facebook account to view, I am copying pasting the entire piece here. As a Canadian, I think this is an complex issue and this piece provides a good starting point for discussion]: I've been #IdleTooLong about this whole topic, and I feel like I need to express my point of view without disrupting innocent travelers on highways, and cargo carrying freight trains. First, allow me to clarify that I am a Cree man with full status. I have family in positions of political power in this very province, and should declare that my opinions are my own. While everyone needles over the finite details of the current situation, I'd like to paint my thoughts for you with much broader strokes. I'm so very proud of my culture. The way the plains Indians lived on this land was a fantastic example of community, art, respect for our environment, ingenuity, and spirituality. I'm proud of the native inspired tattoos that I sport permanently on my body. As a father, I'm teaching my son that same respect and understanding of where his blood derives from, in the hopes that his pride will outshine the prejudice he will inevitably experience growing up, or at some point in his life. I'm also very proud to be Canadian. Our vast mosaic of cultures, languages, and beliefs make up this welcoming land of opportunity for all. Whether you like it or not, we all have the same citizenship, but some have a different view on the value of it. I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the government bills, documentation, or policy that is driving the current protests, but I've intently watched news stories, read columns, and have regularly monitored the comments being made on facebook. Based on all of this, I feel the need to break my silence on this issue. 1 - It's embarrassing how the #IdleNoMore protest is being handled. Blocking major traffic thoroughfares does nothing good to bring support and awareness to your cause, it creates immediate animosity towards you. Protesting freely in parks or in front of government buildings seems like a much more productive way to attract the attention of those you seek. The politicians. Not the regular welder-Joe who's just trying to get to work. Hold him up and cost him money? See how much support you'll get out of that guy... Clarify what you are protesting for, or against. I've never seen such a passionate group of people go forward in protest in such disarray, and without clearly stating what it's all about. If it's generally about your need to be consulted, respected, justified for being mistreated, or the preservation of your culture, then let's be out with it and start a constructive discussion. Understand that you do not need to be consulted for anything any more than the Canadian citizen next to you does. Your opinion on things doesn't count "more" than anyone else's. Respect is earned, not given. There's no question that the native people of yesterday were brutalized, hunted, tortured, and humiliated for decades. It's awful, and no one should ever have to suffer like that. The elders of the time signed those treaties to bring peace, and offer what they hoped would be a leg-up in a new world that they realized couldn't be held at bay. But those days are long over. It defies logic to have the current population pay for the tragedies committed by people that came so long before them. The preservation of your culture is YOUR job, not anyone else's. For example, Polish, Irish, and Ukrainian societies thrive all over the country with very little or no support from government coffers. They celebrate traditional dance, language, and food all by simply passing it down from generation to generation. Native communities can do the very same thing (and generally do), but without financial support. 2 - "This movement is about the whole environment, it's not just about the treaties....The bill that passed now un-protects the rivers, lakes, forests, land, etc, so we need this bill to further protect our children's futures. Thanks to Harper Govt, rigs and development will pollute the air, waters, etc..." It's no secret that our Canadian economy is driven by the oil and gas industry. Yes, there have been some awful environmental blunders due to a plethora of different reasons. I heartily agree that we need to protect our natural areas that support wildlife, but I also know that there is aggressive legislation, and powerful government offices in place that already have that very same sentiment at heart. Millions of Canadians support green technology and research, as well as lobby for stronger federal policy. So if that's what this is all about, there's no need to blockade anything, as a majority of people would already agree with you. 3 - "It is about the 480 page Bill that the government has passed without you knowing about it. It went through the house of commons and the senate in 2 wks. 480 pgs long...do you think that many people had time to read it? It says that under age criminals can be punished as adults. It makes more budget cuts. The librarians at schools are being budget cut. It is about A LOT more than Aboriginals, it's about everyone in Canada. The Aboriginals are the ones who started to realize the Bill was gonna to do irreversible damage!" Back in the days of copying notes off a blackboard or projector in school, I'm certain I've WRITTEN 480 pages in two weeks, let alone read that many. In a political world where literacy at a high level is demanded, I'm willing to bet that most could plow through that many pages in a very short period of time. I suppose the content would be laden with bureaucratic jargon and would need time to fully interpret...but that's why you have a legal team. Quite frankly, I agree with underage criminals being tried as adults, and I'm willing to bet that a landslide majority of Canadians will agree with me. Budget cuts are a reality of our democratic world. I'm not sure if this means that librarians from schools are being removed, or the library itself, but the fact of the matter is, our schools rely on a healthy economy for funding. When money gets tight, things get sacrificed. I truly hope that the readily available knowledge in a library would be the last to go. 4 - "It's not about the Aboriginals! That is what they are doing to distract you from what it really is about! It only affects the aboriginals- just like it will effect ALL of us!" This is very confusing, but seems to sum up the general knowledge about what is going on. Who is "they"? Are we going into conspiracy theory depths here? Do people not realize that we have an official opposition in place as a natural government watchdog to debate everything that in-power government is trying to enact? If there were truly earth shattering implications in the bill in question, the opposition would be whistle blowing and bleating into any available microphone available so fast it would make your head spin. First and foremost, I'm a human being just like you. I believe in equality. Across the board equality. Our country is so multicultural, that to give any specific group levity over everyone else is completely ridiculous. I'm not familiar with the particulars of old treaties signed, but I get the gist because I have used some of the special privileges provided to me. I do not pay for health care. I did for awhile in my young working life, but then the government discovered my native status and sent me a HUGE apology letter, and a cheque for every dime I had put into the system. Odd. I lived just up the street from my fellow truck driving friends, did the same job, paid the same taxes...yet there I was with this benefit because of my racial background and some papers that were signed all those years ago. I've used it for eye wear. This was particularly handy when I was “up against it” financially, but had broken my glasses welding. Here's the thing though, why should I have an advantage on a co-worker who might be in the same situation? It's not fair, and it needs to stop. I move that Canadians start their own march towards coast to coast equality, or at least the serious discussion of it. Our country should offer no free rides to anyone. No help for those who refuse to help themselves. No quarter for those who would inhibit the lives and success of others. No limit to what anyone can accomplish with a steely resolve, and a great idea. It doesn't matter who built the first camp fires and communities on this land, it's those that work hard to continue to stoke the flames of collective well being that matter. As a man that stands by his word, I pledge to never again use my native status to further myself in a way that isn't available to every other Canadian. I will leave my son unregistered, and will teach him the importance of keeping it that way. I am a proud native man, and a hard working, forward thinking Canadian that believes the opportunities and advantages this country has to offer should be available to everyone equally. Anthony Sowan Sure to be called an Apple by the rest of First Nations Edited January 22, 2013 by Musky or Specks
bushart Posted January 22, 2013 Report Posted January 22, 2013 Sometimes it's hard to believe Maybe I should start a new thread....If I want to look into making a tinfoil hat---Reynolds or Alcan?? So much of what I read here is subjective on "ALL" sides Oh look....A chief from Osoyoos says this....Chief from Attawapiskat says this---6 nations did this......Must apply to the whole scenario then....Right??? Well look in the mirror.....Clifford olsen did unspeakable things----does that mean all middle age white guys do as him? Robert Picton did what???---are all pig farmers murderers?? Osama Bin Laden killed many....are all Muslims like that??? Anyone want real time proof and evidence to reality----go spend the rest of the winter in a place like Pikangikum---or many like it Drink it up----24-7 for a minimum of a year----come back with an informed opinion---not what the crowd at the Tim Horton's beats up round the table The internet is great-----info to back an argument at the touch of a mouse---for any side of an issue Like the gun issue----You can't tie this up in a neat bow---give a pat answer and put it in the corner---There Dealt With. I was going to be done with this here a while ago----and watch opinions come and go-------matters not in the big world But this last answer is to say one last time-------think outside the box---or is trolling and being argumentative your kick for the day (Like the couple guys saying all stolen cars in the Golden Horshoe end up in 6 nations----well newsflash---I knew some folks from Hamilton who bragged of insurance jobs back in the 70's---take a car to the RES--set it on fire--guess who gets the blame??---called insurance job) Cause for EVERY dumb thing a Native has done----there's an equal one for every race---so posting a so and so said this or did this is narrow minded
Twocoda Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 it doesn't "seem" like free money, it IS! it doesn't matter how the bands distribute the money, it's still FREE money that is simply handed over to natives. FREE money from taxpayers. if they get 1 billion dollars to distribute among each band, it's still FREE money no matter what it's used for. like i said, education for natives IS free. natives get FREE education and are PAID to goto school. you're telling me that it's fair for a native to get a FREE ride while many non native families are struggling to put their kids through school, if they can even afford it? if so, you really need to give your head a shake. i wasn't going to say anything, but figure i should before i'm labelled a "hater" or "racist".... my grandfathers brother was married to a native and lived on the six nations reserve for most of his life and had 4 kids. therefore, i've been visiting the reserve and have been around natives my entire life and continue to go there regularly. my opinion is based on what i've personally seen growing up, not based on media reports. the majority do not need any financial assistance, they simply take it because it's there. the self entitlement attitude is very strong... Before writing about how some of those continuing payment annual sums are spent for the benefit of First Nations peoples, I have to write about the First Nations Trust Fund. The reason I have to address the First Nations Trust Fund first has to do with some of the comments I received on Twitter after sharing yesterday’s blog article with the Twitterverse. The comments to which I’m referring are those that allege that any money paid out to First Nations peoples is charity money. Over the past few days, a document by Robofraud has been circulating online that states that the First Nations Trust Fund is over $2 TRILLION and earns an annual interest of over $35 BILLION. A trust is a way to hold property that lets Trustees manage the money so it benefits a defined beneficiary. The property that makes up the Trust is usually defined by a written trust agreement. The written trust agreements in this case are the treaties. The Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada (AANDC) providedthis information with regards to themonies being held in the First Nations Trust Fund as of March 31, 2009. Is it possible that the over $2 TRILLION claimed in the Robofraud statement is correct? Since the only figures I was able to find date back to 2009 when it was at $1.15 BILLION, it’s not likely that the amount in 2013 is $2 TRILLION. Could it be $2 BILLION? Could be. Still, $2 BILLION is a sizable amount of money as is the interest $2 BILLION generates on a quarterly basis. That being said, the First Nations Trust Fund isn’t the only money that belongs to First Nations peoples that is handled by the AANDC. According to the website, the Department “may issue licences, permits, and other instruments to individuals and organizations that propose to undertake resource exploration and other types of development projects.” That money also belongs to First Nations peoples, doesn’t it? If the resource exploration and development projects weren’t on First Nations property, there wouldn’t be any need for AANCD to involve itself ergo the revenues generated from “licenses, permits and other instruments to individuals and organizations” is First Nations revenues, is it not? And how about the monies held in accounts that the AANDC identifies as Indian moneys suspense accounts? An Indian moneys suspense account is meant to hold monies “received for individual Indians and bands pending execution of the related lease, permit or licence, settlement of litigation, registration of the Indian or identification of the recipient.” The AANDC website goes on to state that “[t]hese moneys are then disbursed to an Indian, credited to an Indian Band Fund or Individual Trust Fund account, or returned to the payer, as appropriate.” What about the Environmental Studies Research Fund Account? It’s part of the AANDC as well and records levies pursuant to the Canada Petroleum Resources Act. If it wasn’t part of the First Nations portfolio, AANDC wouldn’t be dealing with it. And how about those Special Accounts as identified under Section 63 of the Indian Act — the accounts where funds such as deposits and payments on leases are held for individuals, held to be split between individuals and bands? AANDC controls that money as well. Indian Estate Accounts need to be included in the total amount of money AANDC controls since Indian Estate Accounts (pursuant to Sections 42 to 51 and 52.3 of the Indian Act) have funds from the estates of deceased First Nations peoples, those deemed mentally incompetent, and ‘missing’ First Nations peoples. Factoring in the Indian Savings Accounts that are in keeping with Sections 52 and 52.1 to 52.5 of the Indian Act and pretty soon, that $2 BILLION figure from the First Nations Trust Fund is considerably more. And contrary to popular misconception, Indian Moneys Suspense Accounts aren’t what one might think they are. In the Public Accounts Of Canada document for 2011-2012, the Indian Moneys Suspense Accounts are described as accounts to “hold moneys received for individual Indians and bands, that cannot be disbursed to an Indian, or credited to an Indian Band Fund or Individual Trust Fund account, pending execution of the related lease, permit or licence, settlement of litigation, registration of the Indian or identification of the recipient.“ In other words, there’s all kinds of money that belongs to First Nations peoples that isn’t part of the First Nations Trust Fund, and AANDC controls all of it. “But wait, there’s more!” as they say on those television infomercials! Have the monies due the First Nations peoples from natural resources been taken into consideration as part of FN revenues? What natural resources, you ask? The next thing to look at, then, are the fiduciary duties of the government towards First Nations peoples. According to the AANDC website, the Trust Fund Management System (TFMS) “is an application used to manage Indian Moneys in Trust. The responsibilities and authorities as outlined by the Indian Act allow the Minister to manage the Indian Moneys as a fiduciary (Statutory obligation of the Minister’s fiduciary responsibilities to collect, receive and hold moneys for the use and benefit of Indians or bands and to manage and expend Indian Moneys in accordance with the Indian Act.) “ The next time someone says that First Nations peoples are getting a free ridefrom taxpayers or that First Nations peoples are mismanaging the money the government gives them, step back and share facts with individuals, corporations and government departments who are riding the slammin’ bandwagon. Education is one of the strongest weapons against ignorance. Elyse Bruce
Rich Nelson Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) [quote name="bushart" post="761666" timestamp But this last answer is to say one last time-------think outside the box---or is trolling and being argumentative your kick for the day (Like the couple guys saying all stolen cars in the Golden Horshoe end up in 6 nations----well newsflash---I knew some folks from Hamilton who bragged of insurance jobs back in the 70's---take a car to the RES--set it on fire--guess who gets the blame??---called insurance job) Cause for EVERY dumb thing a Native has done----there's an equal one for every race---so posting a so and so said this or did this is narrow minded Im the one that mentioned the stolen trucks... Maybe you should go back and read the post again. I never said that all the stolen trucks in the GTA end up on the rez. I said hundreds a year do. Do you know that to be a false statement? Its a fact, deal with it. A few years back, my Chev Silverado was stolen in Hamilton. My first guess/ comment was " its probably on the rez as we speak" ( I know, very racist of me right?). 4 months later, I get a call from OPP that they had my truck. I was completely shocked when they told me that six nations police had found it . I went to the tow yard where it was located ( on the rez), the yard had 100 plus Chevy/ GM trucks and SUVs that were either torched, or completely stripped of parts. Weird coincidence eh? My truck was sittin in the gravel on the frame with everything stripped off it. Now Im not dilusional. Im aware that not every stolen vehicle in the GTA is because of a native. But FACT is that a large number of them are. " only takes a few bad apples to ruin a batch" The Idle No More movement is suppossed to be representing all Natives across the nation. Of course not every single one of them agrees with it. BTW, its not 1970 anymore.... Edited January 23, 2013 by Bladeburner
Twocoda Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) since someone posted a opinion of a native as to why he doenst support INM...i feel its only fair to post a report why this lady does support INM... This article, written by Linda Goyette, was originally published on Facebook on Wednesday, 16 January 2013. Ms. Goyette is an independent Writer, Editor and Proofreader, and a graduate of Carleton University where she studied Journalism. ”Why I Support Idle No More” is republished in its entirety on this blog site with written permission from the author. I am no longer a journalist, and I do not seek a bully pulpit on any topic, but tonight I want to explain to my family and friends why I give my unqualified support to the Idle No More movement as a Canadian citizen. I am becoming more and more concerned about the harsh backlash among non-aboriginal Canadians against this peaceful protest movement. I’m not talking exclusively about virulent racial bigotry and hate speech, although it exists in dark places, but more about the willful denial of reality, the blindness to injustice, among many decent people. These are the people I address tonight. I respect their right to a different opinion, but I hope they will hear me out. Four Saskatchewan women — Nina Wilson, Sylvia McAdam, Sheelah McLean and Jessica Gordon — and Chief Theresa Spence of Attawapiskat First Nation in northern Ontario found the courage to say that a change is going to come. Thousands of indigenous people across Canada are demonstrating in peaceful ways to tell the country that they will wait no longer for that change. When I see round dances in shopping malls, peaceful road blockades, or a chief on a hunger strike, I see an opportunity to learn more about the deep frustration of my neighbours. I see no threat at all. The protesters are asking for the country I want for myself, and for my family. Millions of Canadians do respect First Nations, Metis and Inuit legal rights because these rights are guaranteed in our modern Constitution, frequently upheld by our highest courts, entrenched in our historic treaties, and valued in our intermingled family connections, our friendships, our minds and our hearts. Many of us badly want the Canadian government to respect Indigenous land, resources, cultural ways, and most of all their right to self-determination. I feel hopeful — wildly hopeful — that a core demand of the Idle No More movement for stronger protection of our shared natural environment will spread to Canadians of all racial backgrounds and political allegiances. I also hope that the Harper government will think twice in future before it passes omnibus legislation with minimal parliamentary debate or national consultation on the contents. If the Idle No More movement has allies, and it does, we need to be more outspoken. Our silence in 2013 will be interpreted as complicity, and polite agreement, with everything that is wrong with the relationship between Canada and the founding peoples. Firm support for Idle No More could push the whole nation forward in a new and more positive direction. We need to stand beside indigenous peoples when they confront an obtuse federal government that consistently undermines their success while it scolds them about local governance. In our homes and communities, we need to challenge the mockery, the simplistic assumptions, the casual and devastating bigotry that diminish Canada and make it a smaller, narrower place than it deserves to be. As some of you know, I have worked for most of my adult life as a reporter, writer and oral history transcriber with enduring connections to many First Nations and Metis people and their communities in different parts of Canada, primarily in the West. That doesn’t make me an expert in anything, but I have had a rare opportunity to learn from the true experts – the people themselves, their life experiences, their values, their hopes. I have witnessed with my own eyes hardships and injustices that took my breath away, not only in Attawapiskat in 2010, but in almost every province and territory over three decades. To those comfortable Canadians who complain that their hard-earned tax dollars disappear down a huge funnel to places like Attawapiskat, I say: Visit the place yourself, or any other isolated, northern Aboriginal community, and you might notice that most inhabitants, primarily children and old people, endure substandard public services beyond the imagination of southern, urban Canadians. They can’t count on clean drinking water, warm housing, decent elementary schools, safe roads, good fire protection or sewage systems — all services that white Canadians in neighbouring towns and cities take for granted. Other Canadians can rely on fairly capable local and provincial governments while First Nations have to contend with the inept budgeting practices of the federal Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, not to mention the restrictive nature of our hideous national antique, the Indian Act. Read it some time. It will change your view of your country. To those Canadians who allege that all chiefs and band councils are robber barons who “make more than the prime minister,” and run a vast northern kleptocracy, I say: I have never heard an Idle No More activist or an Aboriginal person in any community defend overpayment of band officials, padding of expense accounts, or local corruption. Just as I have never heard any Canadian, anywhere, justify the overpayment of local, provincial or federal elected and public employees, although this also happens with depressing regularity. Overpayment happens because we allow it to happen. That can change, too. I would like to hear Canadians ask why the president of the University of Alberta, Indira Samarasekera, received $627,000 in the 2007-2008 fiscal year, which includes house and car allowances, performance bonuses and deferred compensation. Her salary had increased 6 per cent compared to the year before. Folks, she earned more that Prime Minister Stephen Harper and U.S. president Barack Obama that year while Alberta students contended with steady tuition increases. She earned more than any First Nation chief I’ve ever heard of. Yet do we hear waves of public indignation about the continuing high salaries of university and college presidents across Canada? Even a murmur? We do not. We swallow similar bad news about other elected and public officials who receive sky-high salaries, benefits, and sometimes, huge severance payments after dismissal for poor performance. That’s our tax money, too. We could at least apply our indignation evenly across the country, and we might question the national preoccupation with compensation to chiefs, and how and why that obsession came to be. Long ago, when I was reporting for the Edmonton Journal in 1980 or 1981, I received a brown envelope from a Department of Indian Affairs finance officer containing documents on the salary and benefits of an outspoken Cree leader Harold Cardinal who was working at the time to assist the northern Dene Tha’ with poor conditions on their reserve. I was in my early twenties at the time, and inexperienced, and yes, I supplied the news story that brought a good man’s hard work into disrepute, fortunately temporarily. I was a little pawn on a chessboard, pushed forward, to do the government’s bidding. Shut him up. Shut it down. I learned a hard lesson from that experience. I began to watch the situation more carefully. In the following three decades I noticed that each time First Nations and Metis leaders, or activists in the community, demanded their legal rights or a fair share of Canada’s abundant resources, similar official brown envelopes would whiz in the direction of good, bad or indifferent reporters and media commentators. These journalists would dutifully report the news of overpayments — as they should, it is indefensible — but without any context or understanding of how they were being used to silence, ignore and marginalize Aboriginal people in great need. Does the federal government release similar figures to the media about the plump expense accounts of its own senior deputy ministers? No, it does not. The Harper government encourages significant overpayments to a favoured few, on the one hand, and then spins this information to discredit the legitimate claims of an entire group of people. This is not good governance. This is dysfunctional manipulation. I don’t blame many southern Canadians for their singular focus on chiefs’ salaries — that’s just about all they’ve heard from the shills in the conservative media for two decades — but I don’t think people understand that federal transfers to First Nations are often significantly lower than provincial transfers to non-aboriginal communities for the same services. The Auditor General and Parliamentary Budget Officer have confirmed this fact again and again, and conscientious people in provincial and local governments and in the media have complained about it. Try to calculate how much public money your town or city receives for every school and hospital, for all salaries of local public employees, for road and bridge construction, for police and fire departments, for sewer lines, garbage disposal, recycling, public transit and so on. That amounts to many millions of dollars a year, too, even for small communities. Canadians interpret these financial transfers as a right of citizenship, the cost of a civil society. More than one million people in Canada describe themselves as Aboriginal, and more than 700,000 have First Nations status. The Government of Canada will spend about $8 billion this year for the budget of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, including all transfers to more than 600 communities. About twenty per cent of the total goes to departmental administration expenses, but look at the $8 billion. That’s the same amount that New Brunswick will spend this year on public services for its 751,000 people. To those Canadians who say, “But I pay taxes, and they don’t, so I have earned these services, and they haven’t,” I say in reply: A large majority of First Nations people and all Metis people, now live off-reserve, work for a living, and do pay taxes. It is the Canadian way to provide public services for all citizens, even those without paid employment, such as the elderly, parents caring for children at home, people with disabilities, and people who earn too little in their jobs to pay significant taxes. Some people on reserves, and in neighbouring non-aboriginal communities too, fall into these categories. Why should we resent them? Their gifts to us are beyond the measure of money. More important, this country is affluent and comfortable by international standards because of the rich natural resources it extracts from its northern and western regions, the traditional territory of many First Nations and Metis people. They have paid and paid the rest of Canada—in lost revenue, over generations—for the miserable level of public services they have received through much of the last century. They have received no fair share of the benefits of a rich nation, and it is time they did. To the Canadians who say, “But Idle No More leaders should be more specific, they should define their terms, I don’t know what they want,” I say: Where have you been hiding throughout your lifetime? If you don’t know what they want, you haven’t been listening. The parents and grandparents of Idle No More activists lined up at the microphones at the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Inquiry after 1974, patiently explaining to the country why their land and sovereignty needed to be respected. Decade after decade, others spoke to parliamentary committee hearings, First Ministers conferences, and every MP and reporter who would listen to them. Year after year, they testified at hearings of the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples and at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and at hearings of the United Nations human rights bodies. In case after case, they took the federal government to the Supreme Court of Canada to press for legitimate recognition of their land claims and treaty and Aboriginal rights. They negotiated the Kelowna Accord with the former prime minister, and then saw the deal collapse. Their frustrations found expression at Oka and Burnt Church and Ipperwash, Ont., in the protest marches through the streets of Edmonton and Winnipeg, in the railway blockades in B.C. They celebrated many victories and land claims settlements along the way, and found allies, and achieved significant improvements on their own initiative. If you don’t know about this yet, it is not too late to learn. Rather than demand that other people define their terms immediately in language you are ready to accept, just listen, and remember what you have heard. It shouldn’t be necessary to say that diverse Aboriginal communities have different definitions of sovereignty, and different interpretations of their relationship with the Canadian state. People are different. Communities are different. No single answer is the total or final answer on any public issue. The very least Canadians can do is pay attention with some level of respect and gratitude for a largely peaceful protest movement. Other countries would envy us for Idle No More, and its non-violent core values. Their patience is a great gift to this country. When the percentage of Aboriginal people in schools, colleges, universities, hospitals and jails matches their percentage of the Canadian population, some equality will have been achieved. Equality does not exist now. I think this is a defining moment in Canadian history, a time when each citizen is asked to make a choice. Where do you stand? Where will your children and grandchildren want you to stand? I have made my decision. I leave your decision to you. Thank you for listening. Edited January 23, 2013 by Twocoda
Twocoda Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 BTW, its not 1970 anymore.... thats the only thing you said in this thread to be true....It is 2013.....and to those that think they shouldnt have to honour the signed treatys.....Look back in history and see the date on our Charter....You cant have it both ways
Twocoda Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 Rick Mercers Rant on Omnibus Bills ...I cant wait to hear his thoughts on the Idle No More Subject
bushart Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 OK Bladeburner says..... Alcan Yup I'm convinced??---although no one seen a Native steal his truck---because it ended up at 6 nations it must have been A Native job It's like the vandalism that says "Praise Allah" on a war memorial---gotta be Muslims Like the John A statue that says "Native Land"---gotta be a Native job No way some trouble maker knows how to stir up racist trouble by implying a certain group Unless someone has pictures and definitive proof---Your pre-conceived prejudice rules you and your opinions---and I'm glad your not a judge
Muskieman Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 "only takes a few bad apples to ruin a batch" .. You are absolutely right ..
F7Firecat Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 Tell ya what bushart you want proof ill give you proof. I had a 89 Sierra GMC Pickup stepside short box (2 wd drive) Nice truck, actually a beautiful truck for a 21 year old kid to be driving. Lived at home with my parents, 21 years old, got up one saturday morning its gone, Went to work in Maitland (yes i work) the other side of Brockville for a week on a shutdown, get a call from my parents, truck was found Sunday night, police chase involving my truck on the SN reserve in the pouring rain, punks drove into a field got it stuck in the mud because its 2wd (2 wheel drive) the punks bail leave the truck in reverse, one of the punks who bails slips and falls under the truck gets pinned under the back wheel, police and ambulance pull him out he goes to hospital for a week. I tell you who stole my truck.......two native punks one 14 and 15 years old, there you go you want pictures of my totaled destroyed truck, ill dig em up, they might be a bit old but im sure i can scan them. Heck, you want more proof, Ill even post their names because I wrote them down on the back of the pictures. I work for what I got, I dont steal and destroy others property nor do I ask for a free ride. There you have it, you want proof let me know, ill post the pictures tommorrow along with the names, ill have to dig them up but i know exactly where they are even 20 years later.
manitoubass2 Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) ... Edited January 23, 2013 by manitoubass2
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 I'm all for the protests. At least these folks are willing to SHOW their displeasure with the government, instead of just mindlessly complaining about it like so many do. While I understand that some of you are personally inconvenienced by the protests, even more people (like the 61% that didn't vote for Harper) are inconvenienced by many of the sweeping changes in the omnibus.
Rich Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 I always assumed they were a sovereign nation. I thought that was the reason to their tax breaks, etc. This thread actually educated me very well about that. And has completely changed my views. My views are somewhat negative now, learning this new information, so I'll keep them to myself. This is a great thread.
bushart Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 I'm not a lawyer----and Even though I told myself for the 3rd time to bail on this circular argument----I'm going to write again with a note of caution--I'd be very careful posting anyones names on that crime on the net Remembering they were young offenders at the time---could be messy for you Look the leftie did a good deed.
mr blizzard Posted January 23, 2013 Author Report Posted January 23, 2013 [Please note that the below opinion piece was NOT written by me. It was written by Canadian-Cree Anthony Sowan and can be found here: http://www.facebook.com/tim.graham.1840/posts/10152413555635652 Since the post requires a Facebook account to view, I am copying pasting the entire piece here. As a Canadian, I think this is an complex issue and this piece provides a good starting point for discussion]: I've been #IdleTooLong about this whole topic, and I feel like I need to express my point of view without disrupting innocent travelers on highways, and cargo carrying freight trains. First, allow me to clarify that I am a Cree man with full status. I have family in positions of political power in this very province, and should declare that my opinions are my own. While everyone needles over the finite details of the current situation, I'd like to paint my thoughts for you with much broader strokes. I'm so very proud of my culture. The way the plains Indians lived on this land was a fantastic example of community, art, respect for our environment, ingenuity, and spirituality. I'm proud of the native inspired tattoos that I sport permanently on my body. As a father, I'm teaching my son that same respect and understanding of where his blood derives from, in the hopes that his pride will outshine the prejudice he will inevitably experience growing up, or at some point in his life. I'm also very proud to be Canadian. Our vast mosaic of cultures, languages, and beliefs make up this welcoming land of opportunity for all. Whether you like it or not, we all have the same citizenship, but some have a different view on the value of it. I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the government bills, documentation, or policy that is driving the current protests, but I've intently watched news stories, read columns, and have regularly monitored the comments being made on facebook. Based on all of this, I feel the need to break my silence on this issue. 1 - It's embarrassing how the #IdleNoMore protest is being handled. Blocking major traffic thoroughfares does nothing good to bring support and awareness to your cause, it creates immediate animosity towards you. Protesting freely in parks or in front of government buildings seems like a much more productive way to attract the attention of those you seek. The politicians. Not the regular welder-Joe who's just trying to get to work. Hold him up and cost him money? See how much support you'll get out of that guy... Clarify what you are protesting for, or against. I've never seen such a passionate group of people go forward in protest in such disarray, and without clearly stating what it's all about. If it's generally about your need to be consulted, respected, justified for being mistreated, or the preservation of your culture, then let's be out with it and start a constructive discussion. Understand that you do not need to be consulted for anything any more than the Canadian citizen next to you does. Your opinion on things doesn't count "more" than anyone else's. Respect is earned, not given. There's no question that the native people of yesterday were brutalized, hunted, tortured, and humiliated for decades. It's awful, and no one should ever have to suffer like that. The elders of the time signed those treaties to bring peace, and offer what they hoped would be a leg-up in a new world that they realized couldn't be held at bay. But those days are long over. It defies logic to have the current population pay for the tragedies committed by people that came so long before them. The preservation of your culture is YOUR job, not anyone else's. For example, Polish, Irish, and Ukrainian societies thrive all over the country with very little or no support from government coffers. They celebrate traditional dance, language, and food all by simply passing it down from generation to generation. Native communities can do the very same thing (and generally do), but without financial support. 2 - "This movement is about the whole environment, it's not just about the treaties....The bill that passed now un-protects the rivers, lakes, forests, land, etc, so we need this bill to further protect our children's futures. Thanks to Harper Govt, rigs and development will pollute the air, waters, etc..." It's no secret that our Canadian economy is driven by the oil and gas industry. Yes, there have been some awful environmental blunders due to a plethora of different reasons. I heartily agree that we need to protect our natural areas that support wildlife, but I also know that there is aggressive legislation, and powerful government offices in place that already have that very same sentiment at heart. Millions of Canadians support green technology and research, as well as lobby for stronger federal policy. So if that's what this is all about, there's no need to blockade anything, as a majority of people would already agree with you. 3 - "It is about the 480 page Bill that the government has passed without you knowing about it. It went through the house of commons and the senate in 2 wks. 480 pgs long...do you think that many people had time to read it? It says that under age criminals can be punished as adults. It makes more budget cuts. The librarians at schools are being budget cut. It is about A LOT more than Aboriginals, it's about everyone in Canada. The Aboriginals are the ones who started to realize the Bill was gonna to do irreversible damage!" Back in the days of copying notes off a blackboard or projector in school, I'm certain I've WRITTEN 480 pages in two weeks, let alone read that many. In a political world where literacy at a high level is demanded, I'm willing to bet that most could plow through that many pages in a very short period of time. I suppose the content would be laden with bureaucratic jargon and would need time to fully interpret...but that's why you have a legal team. Quite frankly, I agree with underage criminals being tried as adults, and I'm willing to bet that a landslide majority of Canadians will agree with me. Budget cuts are a reality of our democratic world. I'm not sure if this means that librarians from schools are being removed, or the library itself, but the fact of the matter is, our schools rely on a healthy economy for funding. When money gets tight, things get sacrificed. I truly hope that the readily available knowledge in a library would be the last to go. 4 - "It's not about the Aboriginals! That is what they are doing to distract you from what it really is about! It only affects the aboriginals- just like it will effect ALL of us!" This is very confusing, but seems to sum up the general knowledge about what is going on. Who is "they"? Are we going into conspiracy theory depths here? Do people not realize that we have an official opposition in place as a natural government watchdog to debate everything that in-power government is trying to enact? If there were truly earth shattering implications in the bill in question, the opposition would be whistle blowing and bleating into any available microphone available so fast it would make your head spin. First and foremost, I'm a human being just like you. I believe in equality. Across the board equality. Our country is so multicultural, that to give any specific group levity over everyone else is completely ridiculous. I'm not familiar with the particulars of old treaties signed, but I get the gist because I have used some of the special privileges provided to me. I do not pay for health care. I did for awhile in my young working life, but then the government discovered my native status and sent me a HUGE apology letter, and a cheque for every dime I had put into the system. Odd. I lived just up the street from my fellow truck driving friends, did the same job, paid the same taxes...yet there I was with this benefit because of my racial background and some papers that were signed all those years ago. I've used it for eye wear. This was particularly handy when I was “up against it” financially, but had broken my glasses welding. Here's the thing though, why should I have an advantage on a co-worker who might be in the same situation? It's not fair, and it needs to stop. I move that Canadians start their own march towards coast to coast equality, or at least the serious discussion of it. Our country should offer no free rides to anyone. No help for those who refuse to help themselves. No quarter for those who would inhibit the lives and success of others. No limit to what anyone can accomplish with a steely resolve, and a great idea. It doesn't matter who built the first camp fires and communities on this land, it's those that work hard to continue to stoke the flames of collective well being that matter. As a man that stands by his word, I pledge to never again use my native status to further myself in a way that isn't available to every other Canadian. I will leave my son unregistered, and will teach him the importance of keeping it that way. I am a proud native man, and a hard working, forward thinking Canadian that believes the opportunities and advantages this country has to offer should be available to everyone equally. Anthony Sowan Sure to be called an Apple by the rest of First Nations great read, well done.
outllaw Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 those are wise words. a man that wants to see canada move forward. a true canadian that has the beliefs of most canadians. its funny how we become complacement. do we not wonder WHY so many folks want to immigrate to canada.
Tayzak15 Posted January 23, 2013 Report Posted January 23, 2013 http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid868989705001?bckey=AQ~~%2CAAAAybGjzqk~%2C6NfTc6c241GVQxOh-GBHNHu5Cuhlf-y9&bctid=2109824808001 People should watch this video I just posted. Probably a good reason why nobody is taking the natives seriously haha.
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