ch312 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Yeah, that paper really gives an unbiased opinion... i rely on facts during a debate while anti's use nothing but emotion. could you please provide FACTS that prove the link wrong? i work in an elementary school,and have for 23yrs,and this has shaken everyone to the core,these were all little kids...except for the 6 adults,its scary and i imagine today there will be alot of scared little kids...its sad and its disgusting... sad indeed. BUT, a tragic event does not justify knee jerk reactions like all these bleeding hearts suggest. From CNN (emphasis mine) : Investigators now know the gunman used "an assault weapon" to "literally (shoot) an entrance into the building," Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy said Sunday. (...) Using a Bushmaster AR-15 "assault-type rifle," the 20-year-old fired multiple magazines -- each of which contained 30 bullets -- to gun down the adults and children in two classrooms, Connecticut State Police Lt. J. Paul Vance said. He then took out a handgun and shot himself in a classroom as officers approached, officials said. All the victims were shot between three and 11 times this is simply another case of the media publishing the wrong information while trying to make "black" guns look evil. an AR15 is NOT an assault rifle, but it is similar to the fully automatic M16. for you people that haven't been around firearms, the AR15 used in this shooting is NO DIFFERENT than your grandpa's semi auto deer/moose hunting rifle in that both require you to pull the trigger once per shot. it was chambered in .223, a round the majority of hunters wouldn't use on anything bigger than a coyote. the AR15 functions EXACTLY the same as an M1 Garand from WWII as they're both SEMI auto, not FULL auto. Many here have said that they wish these poor victums rest in peace... I can't think that way. I can only hope that their restless souls haunt the powerful gun lobby and legislators. I hope that the next time they hit the range to enjoy their "hobby", they put pictures of those kids on their targets and ask themselves this question; Is my enjoyment of this hobby really worth the lives of these kids and the ones who haven't been shot yet? Because we all know this will happen again. HH seriously? this is the type on mentality legal firearms owners fight every day. you're suggesting i put a picture of a dead child on my target the next time i shoot my guns? people die every day due to drunk driving, but i highly doubt any of you would even consider the thought of stopping the sale of alcohol to the public and give up their hobby of drinking because it could save a life somewhere this is the type of knee jerk reaction i mentioned above The firearms used were stolen. They were not his. Even if they were registered how would that have prevented anything from happening? this is something the anti gun folk are missing, yet they're blaming gun laws for what happened. suggesting that stricter firearms laws will stop shootings makes as much sense as saying stricter regulations to get your drivers license will stop people from stealing cars. as for those who believe firearms cause more harm than good. i suggest you look at some facts and you will learn that crime rates dropped in nearly every state after CCW was introduced. but, seeing as it's the canadian way to be good victims and we're told to be good little sheep, i don't expect many of you to agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 And saying that people will choose to cower in the corner and crap there pants instead of stand up and fight back isn't sensationalism? That is what I was responding to. As for my second statement, that is not sensationalism that is fact and happens frequently, even here in Canada, people have had to resort to the use of firearms to protect there house and family. You're out of your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammercarp Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) "The 2nd amendment argument is garbage. When it was drafted the only firearms were muzzle-loaders, not assault rifles with 30 round clips. And despite what the NRA tries to instill in people's minds, it isn't inviolate. Amendments are able to themselves be amended, in fact it's been done. Prohibition was a constitutional amendment that was repealed with another amendment. " Dave. Thank you for your service in our armed forces. I have read this argument many times and what those that make this statement forget is that at the time the rifled musket was the second most powerful weapon on the planet. That amendment put enormous power and responsibility in the hands of the individual.With one of these weapons one could do the unthinkable, like defying a king or killing a lord. The only way to reduce the number of these tragedies is to stop the media circus and health care for the mentally ill and support for their families. Knee jerk reactions and band aid solutions will do nothing. Edited December 17, 2012 by hammercarp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch312 Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 How about all guns kept locked in a central location, where you sign them out each time, after a few questions to make sure you are "of sound mind". here's an FYI for all the non shooters... the part in bold is already required when applying for your firearms license. asking someone a second time if they're crazy isn't going to make a difference. i really wish people would learn about firearms and related regulations before talking about them. it's not hard to see why there's so much ignorance towards firearms as the majority of people talking about them across north america due to this recent event have zero clue what they're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torco Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 My only comment is....More Gun Control This will put me a odds with many other members but that's how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 You're out of your mind. That sounds like sensationalism to me. Why am I out of my mind? Is it because I think people should be allowed to protect themselves and there homes if the situation should arise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 That sounds like sensationalism to me. Why am I out of my mind? Is it because I think people should be allowed to protect themselves and there homes if the situation should arise? Protect against what? All these frequent break-ins and rapes that you've inventing to somehow prove your point? Where's the epidemic? When you're in the %0.00001 that needs to have a firearm strapped to his side 24/7 in order to feel safe, who's the odd man out? Fear mongering at it's finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaque Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 This was an interesting read that seems to touch on the root of the real issue. I am Adam Lanza's mother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Protect against what? All these frequent break-ins and rapes that you've inventing to somehow prove your point? Where's the epidemic? When you're in the %0.00001 that needs to have a firearm strapped to his side 24/7 in order to feel safe, who's the odd man out? Fear mongering at it's finest. Who is fear mongering? I think people should be allowed to keep guns in there houses for the means of protection. Does it happen often? No. But it happens more often than mass shootings do. In Canada your right to bear arms in protection is an extremely slippery legal slope. Something that I feel should change. In the US it is legal to do such a thing. Two of my co workers recently had there houses broken into while they were home. Both are now seeking out getting there firearms licenses and are learning about firearms. I would suggest to you that until you have something happen to you that you should keep your own fear mongering and name calling to yourself. You don't know my life's history nor do you even know me in person. Where exactly are you getting your facts of %.000001 of people that have been threatened in there own homes? That is pure falsehood and lies. Something that anti gun people are good at. Instead of looking at actual fact they tend to just make it up to suit there own emotional needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigger Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Mental health is the problem. Not gun ownership. Calling someone bonkers or crazy might be conveniant, but its not helpful. Canadians getting in a huff over US gun ownership is laughable. Try debating a topic you can do something about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Where exactly are you getting your facts of %.000001 of people that have been threatened in there own homes? That is pure falsehood and lies. Something that anti gun people are good at. Instead of looking at actual fact they tend to just make it up to suit there own emotional needs. Read what I said again. I said nothing about only %0.00001 of people being threatened in their homes, where you do come up with crap like this? I also find it funny you think I'm anti gun as well, I actually just picked up a nice Savage .270 from Epps last week (And not to protect myself with either, lol living in fear) I'm anti fear mongering, trying to make people think they aren't safe in their own homes. Perhaps you forget what country you live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 When you're in the %0.00001 that needs to have a firearm strapped to his side 24/7 in order to feel safe, who's the odd man out? Fear mongering at it's finest. Sounds to me like you are are saying only %.000001 of the population has reason to want to protect there homes. There is no fear mongering, and I know exactly where I am in fact I stated in my response that in the US people are allowed and that in Canada your not. I do support the use of firearms as protection in Canada. I would not support the use of a centralized weapons cache for that very reason. Do you actually believe that all firearms would be stored in such a weapons cache? Do you actually think that the government would be able to fund such a facility where the people would be questioned each time they go to get one out for cleaning, maintenance, range use, just to look at, to go hunting, to take pictures of to trade or sell etc... Some anti's do own guns. Those people are considered hypocrites by many. Why don't you lead the charge and take your new gun and go store it at a gun club, then go give the key to your locker to a third party and pay them to question you if you want to gain access to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimace Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 This was an interesting read that seems to touch on the root of the real issue. I am Adam Lanza's mother I read that earlier today. I agree that this addresses the real root of the issue as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Sounds to me like you are are saying only %.000001 of the population has reason to want to protect there homes. There is no fear mongering, and I know exactly where I am in fact I stated in my response that in the US people are allowed and that in Canada your not. I do support the use of firearms as protection in Canada. I would not support the use of a centralized weapons cache for that very reason. Do you actually believe that all firearms would be stored in such a weapons cache? Do you actually think that the government would be able to fund such a facility where the people would be questioned each time they go to get one out for cleaning, maintenance, range use, just to look at, to go hunting, to take pictures of to trade or sell etc... Some anti's do own guns. Those people are considered hypocrites by many. Why don't you lead the charge and take your new gun and go store it at a gun club, then go give the key to your locker to a third party and pay them to question you if you want to gain access to it. No, a centralized weapons cache is silly (You are more then welcome to quote me where I said it was a good idea) I would never support something like that. To be honest, I like things exactly the way they are right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 How much do we need to know? I know that 20 kids were killed last week. I know that numerous others were killed last year in Virginia. I know that in the next few weeks, I'll be reading about another incident with similar results. I think I know enough. It's taken 200 years for the U.S. to reach this point; it'll take another 200 years for change to take place. RE the car analogy presented here... When I grew up everyone drove their cars home from the bar. Drunk driving was seen as a part of life. Now, after education and persistence, you are seen publically as a leper if you drive drunk. There are no organizations arguing people's rights to drive drunk. Why can't the same be done with fire arms... and before anyone suggests it, I don't have a hate on for guns. I actually think they are pretty cool! But my liking them doesn't negate the fact that they are too easily gotten and not nearly enough people take proper precautions. I'd really like to see some of you guys argue your points at those kid's funeral. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 No, a centralized weapons cache is silly (You are more then welcome to quote me where I said it was a good idea) I would never support something like that. To be honest, I like things exactly the way they are right now. My comments were a response to a comment about creating a weapons cache and my reasons for not wanting one. Your reasons may be different than mine. I wouldn't call you crazy for not wanting one or for the reasons that you have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishermccann Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) here's an FYI for all the non shooters... the part in bold is already required when applying for your firearms license. asking someone a second time if they're crazy isn't going to make a difference. i really wish people would learn about firearms and related regulations before talking about them. it's not hard to see why there's so much ignorance towards firearms as the majority of people talking about them across north america due to this recent event have zero clue what they're talking about. That second time that they ask , before you get your gun, will prove if you are, drunk, mad as hell at something, suicidal, or became crazy after you got your permit. If you mean no harm a couple of questions would weed it out. ps. I own many guns and a PAL, I am NOT anti gun. Edited December 17, 2012 by fishermccann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 That second time that they ask , before you get your gun, will prove if you are, drunk, mad as hell at something, suicidal, or became crazy after you got your permit. If you mean no harm a couple of questions would weed it out. ps. I own many guns and a PAL, I am NOT anti gun. I don't think a couple of questions would weed out anything. I think that you are under the false presumption that when people are depressed or gone crazy look or sound different. There are some very subtle cues that are very difficult to pick up on. A crazy person isn't going to say they are crazy if you ask them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehg Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 if nothing else it show how different the mind set is between Canada and the US Ditto. I know that 20 kids were killed last week. I know that numerous others were killed last year in Virginia. I know that in the next few weeks, I'll be reading about another incident with similar results. When I grew up everyone drove their cars home from the bar. Drunk driving was seen as a part of life. There are no organizations arguing people's rights to drive drunk. Why can't the same be done with fire arms... and before anyone suggests it, I don't have a hate on for guns. I'd really like to see some of you guys argue your points at those kid's funeral. HH My sentiments exactly. Another very tragic incident down there. Seems rather inappropriate to be argue about American gun laws on an Ontario FISHING board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessy Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 That second time that they ask , before you get your gun, will prove if you are, drunk, mad as hell at something, suicidal, or became crazy after you got your permit. If you mean no harm a couple of questions would weed it out. ps. I own many guns and a PAL, I am NOT anti gun. i am a gun owner and your statement is false....... two words for you Russell Williams he was asked allot of questions and he answered them flawlessly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehg Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) Russell Williams Russell Williams didn't use a gun to commit his atrocities. This thread is meandering and wandering all over the place. Out of respect for the victims in Connecticut this thread should be... Edited December 17, 2012 by ehg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I stepped away from this for a bit and put some more thought into it... I would like the folks who are arguing against any sort of gun control in the U.S. to suggest what they think should be done in light of recent events. Many say that we don't know what we are talking about, so enlighten me, if you have the knwoledge, tell me what should be done. Thanks, HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishermccann Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 How about , "why would you like to go shooting today"?.... Well I just lost my job this week and I found out my wife is having an affair with my best friend , so I thought a little shooting would relieve my stress.. Oh, thats too bad, where did you work....."The post office"... Sorry no gun for you today ,here is a number to call for some help with your problems . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiel Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I'll finish this with my sincere sympathies to the grieving. I can't even begin to imagine their pain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I think the families and friends of the victims deserve better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts