Bassaholic Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'm not much of a poster here, mostly just read and like many others live vicariously through "solopaddlers" reports. But after seeing the "OOS Bass fishing video" and the "flipping lesson" thread and a couple other threads(that are now locked down) the last couple weeks I can't help it. A couple years ago some dumb posted a video on youtube of him and some buddies driving around some back roads shooting ducks and ducklings on potholes with high powered rifles. This video was absolutely disgusting and outraged the N.A. waterfowling community. It spread like a virus on both American and Canadian hunting forums and even made some news programs. Eventually with help from hunters in the area where the incident took place these morons were caught and charged. Now this OOS bass video is not quite on the same level as the shooting video but its pretty close...but in my opinion T.J.'s live fish dumping report is even worse. With that being said I'm shocked at how apathetic the fishing community is and how many people come to the defense of these individuals. It's always the same lines too "inexperienced anglers", "maybe they dont understand the regs", "different culture", blah blah blah...or its immediately locked down and swept under the rug so it doesn't offend anyone. Why??? Ignorance isn't an excuse! The waterfowling community basically formed an internet lynch mob to help find these guys and they had every right to. Not once did I see someone making excuses for them. Can you imagine..."Maybe they didn't know you're not allowed to shoot ducklings with a rifle". Canada's fish and wildlife are a valuable resource that we should all protect any way we can. In this day and age that means flooding fishing forums and websites with these videos and reports to get peoples attention why not? How else does someone deal with this kind of a situation? How many times do we have to hear the MNR tip line is a joke? So one person calling in might not be enough to warrent an investigation. But maybe after reading about it on a forum it gets a few more people upset about these crimes being committed againts our resources and they call/email/write the MNR. Maybe those extra complaints are the push they need to investigate. But if we keep locking things down and making excuses and not pulling together as a community things are going to get much much worse. Anyway I felt proud to be a duck hunter when I saw how everyone rallied together and that tips(not excuses) from fellow hunters helped in the arrest of those punks but I feel slightly ashamed at how indifferent the fishing community is to these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limeyangler Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Being of African descent i find your use of the term 'Lynch Mob" offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.brock Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 I hear ya, I dropped the ball on the weekend though a cottage neighbors son (15 ish years old) has been fishing bass for the past few weekends, I mentioned it, half jokingly, half with the premise of don't get caught, I didn't feel like going into the righteous speech of "well, the male bass stays with the fry, and if he's pulled away from his duties........etc", now I'm thinking I should have said more, regardless of consequences everyone has their own view on fish and wildlife ethics, I guess nobody can really say anything unless it's against the law and illegal, at that point, the poacher should get whatever comes their way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassaholic Posted June 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) The point is the duck hunters rallied together by keeping the thread at the top of their forums and by passing on the video to everyone they know in the hope that someone would recognize one of the shooters and contact their local CO's. But here all we get is excuses and posts locked/deleted in the blink of an eye. In these cases Chris the incidents are clearly illegal and have nothing to do with any ones ethics. Edited June 21, 2012 by Bassaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfishing Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Bassaholic, You do realize, that the video posted in the recent OOS bass thread, might not even be showing any illegal activity, at all? Ever consider that those guys went steelheading, caught a few bass since it's the Maitland afterall, filmed it, and decided to call the video "Bass Western Trib" or whatever they called it. If you're steelheading and you catch a few incidental bass, that's entirely fine by the regs as long as you release them if they're OOS. Filming or taking a picture is perfectly legal. Putting on a stringer, or in a livewell, would be illegal. And now you are comparing people using deadly weaponry to kill ducklings on public roads from vehicles to catching a few OOS bass? Absolutely unfathomable. Hard as I may try to see your perspective, I can't. Someone was calling for a prison sentence for releasing a fish into a stream in another thread? Really? Your fuses would blow if you knew some of the real underhanded corruption that is going on everyday, all around you, but is well disguised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.brock Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 The point is the duck hunters rallied together by keeping the thread at the top of their forums and by passing on the video to everyone they know in the hope that someone would recognize one of the shooters and contact their local CO's. But here all we get is excuses and posts locked/deleted in the blink of an eye. In these cases Chris the incidents are clearly illegal and have nothing to do with any ones ethics. totally, like I said, if it's illegal, they should get whatever comes their way, a thread won't get locked down if the the topic is illegal activity, things get locked down when ethics within the law are discussed and other aspects pop up, like race or country of origin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassaholic Posted June 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Funfishing this is exactly what I'm talking about. Yes I did watch the video, a few times. How can you not see the problem with it? I know they were "steelheading" and I know its a legal grey area to film/photograph an OOS fish. And yes these guys seemed to be continually filming so thats not even the problem. The problem is and its been discussed here numerous times, if you continually catch OOS fish its your responsibilty to move away from the area or change your presentation. They didn't and they named their video "bass fishing". Not saying they need to be locked up and the key tossed away but we shouldn't be making excuses for them. And yes I am comparing "deadly weaponry" to this and its not a big stretch. A fishing rod/hook is just as deadly to a fish as a gun is to a duck. You cant tell me with absolute proof that none of those bass were hooked in the gill and thus died after being released. So in both incidents someone is harming our resources illegally. And the only thing thats unfathomable is that you cant see how incredibly harmful releasing fish into a great lakes trib could be and how that should be treated as a severe crime deserving a harsh fine and maybe even some jail time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Bassaholic well said I think I agree with everything you said I feel I am obligated to report what I see as crime then the MNR can decide if charges should be laid and if so then a court of law can decide if they are guilty .. but looking the other way helps no one as a fishing community, I think we should all discourage well I didn't know defense whats the big deal they released them defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singingdog Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 And yes I am comparing "deadly weaponry" to this and its not a big stretch. A fishing rod/hook is just as deadly to a fish as a gun is to a duck. Bit of a stretch, isn't it? Every day, thousands of fish in Ontario are caught and released using a rod/hook. I don't think you can say the same thing about the ducks that are "caught" using a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopheraaron Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Bassaholic well said I think I agree with everything you said I feel I am obligated to report what I see as crime then the MNR can decide if charges should be laid and if so then a court of law can decide if they are guilty .. but looking the other way helps no one as a fishing community, I think we should all discourage well I didn't know defense whats the big deal they released them defense x2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercman Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Bassaholic well said I think I agree with everything you said I feel I am obligated to report what I see as crime then the MNR can decide if charges should be laid and if so then a court of law can decide if they are guilty .. but looking the other way helps no one as a fishing community, I think we should all discourage well I didn't know defense whats the big deal they released them defense the multitude of excuses that are used to justify stupidity,should never be accepted as a defence for destroying the environment,and the flora and fauna in it. Its our responsiblity to be ambassadors of the fishing community, and to speak out against anything that is illegal,irresponsible or impacts the resource in a negative way. Burying our heads in the sand, and turning the other cheek, have no place in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoty Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Well said Bassaholic! the multitude of excuses that are used to justify stupidity,should never be accepted as a defence for destroying the environment,and the flora and fauna in it.Its our responsiblity to be ambassadors of the fishing community, and to speak out against anything that is illegal,irresponsible or impacts the resource in a negative way. Burying our heads in the sand, and turning the other cheek, have no place in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigsnreels Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Bit of a stretch, isn't it? Every day, thousands of fish in Ontario are caught and released using a rod/hook. I don't think you can say the same thing about the ducks that are "caught" using a gun. Agree. With a firearm, you are taking direct aim at your intended target. I wish I had the same ability to do so with my fishing rod. In most cases, OOS catches are completely random and innocuous occurrences, and no harm is done (and no foul committed, IMO) as long as the fish is released immediately with as much care as possible. The recent sturgeon catch discussed on this board is a good example. Let's face it, if we all felt compelled to lay down our gear and turn ourselves in to the nearest CO every time we hooked something that was OOS, there's be nobody left to go fishing. The issue is whether an angler is intentionally targeting an OOS species, as would seem to be the case in the YouTube videos discussed above. If that's the situation, then I say throw the book at 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 D'Oh!! I hate wake up calls I'll try not to climb too far up the soapbox here... Yes the release of foreign fish into the Rouge was not a cool thing and could possibly have serious affects on the whole system.....See Asian Carp Lynch Mob justice?---I'm cautious on that one---cause if "ALL" of us are brutally truthful with our memories----many can likely find "A" time when we may have "Interpreted" the rules (in many things--not just fishing)in our own way. Being the public conscience is a slippery slope Take 2 steps back from the oos bass vid---yup totally illegal--and the individuals should get a reminder in some form BUT!! (and you knew it was comin) There was ANOTHER oil spill in Alberta waters again Monday-----this after the one in the Red Deer River that had MANY fish floatin belly up---now by comparison the OOS bass were released alive Where's the angry thread--with that mob mentality targeting their anger at the culprits of that serious offence on the fisheries?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAW Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Someone was calling for a prison sentence for releasing a fish into a stream in another thread? Really? Absolutely You're out to lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millhouse2020 Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Bassaholic, You do realize, that the video posted in the recent OOS bass thread, might not even be showing any illegal activity, at all? Ever consider that those guys went steelheading, caught a few bass since it's the Maitland afterall, filmed it, and decided to call the video "Bass Western Trib" or whatever they called it. If you're steelheading and you catch a few incidental bass, that's entirely fine by the regs as long as you release them if they're OOS. Filming or taking a picture is perfectly legal. Putting on a stringer, or in a livewell, would be illegal. And now you are comparing people using deadly weaponry to kill ducklings on public roads from vehicles to catching a few OOS bass? Absolutely unfathomable. Hard as I may try to see your perspective, I can't. Someone was calling for a prison sentence for releasing a fish into a stream in another thread? Really? Your fuses would blow if you knew some of the real underhanded corruption that is going on everyday, all around you, but is well disguised. I agree with Bassaholic from the point of view that eventually you have to put a stake in the ground and say enough is enough when you see unlawful activity... "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke, Irish Philosopher 1729-1797 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskywizard Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 totally, like I said, if it's illegal, they should get whatever comes their way, a thread won't get locked down if the the topic is illegal activity, things get locked down when ethics within the law are discussed and other aspects pop up, like race or country of origin That does not hold true. The thread on Flippin' stumps lesson disappeared and had no "ethics within the law are discussed and other aspects pop up, like race or country of origin". I understand that this forum, and many like it, are not democracies. The forum owner is free to administer in any manner s/he chooses. If the forum owner(s) prefer that we not challenge illegal or immoral fishing practices, that is their perogative, but I'd appreciate it if that was spelled out in the rules so I know what the boundaries are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirCranksalot Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Just for the record, my OOS threads did not get locked down. They got blown away---twice! The first time I thought maybe it was because of my subtitle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregoire Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 In the OSS bass video I believe that the anglers had the intention of targeting steelhead. While they could have moved on once they caught a few bass, and definitely should have according to the regs, I think educating them on what your responsability as a angler is when you are repeatedly catching OOS species. One of the big problems I have with the video was with how they were treating the fish once the were caught. Letting a fish, especially an OOS fish role around on the rocks is going to severely increase the stress that it is being put under, increasing the chance that the fish will die. In the video they had a net that they could have used to scoop the fish, unhook them in the net and release them back without taking them out of the net. Education is important here, but if there is no consequence for breaking the regs many people will not go through the trouble of educating themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimsbylander Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 The unfortunate reality as I see it, is though 99.9% of us are genuinely concerned and want to see fishing done ethically, there is no black and white with regards to the OOS topic. If it was black and white, a simple call to your MNR would suffice and all these threads would read how I helped catch a poacher. Instead, we verbally joist and confuse morals with legal regulations. We cannot police actions that are not technically illegal (read:cant be proven) yet morally wrong. The question is, would this energy be better spent on lobbying for homogenous fishing seasons on a lake by lake basis, stiffer fines for offenders, tighter environmental regulations or a multitude of other positive initiatives? I have my opinions just like everyone on the character of people that fish bass OOS and do it under the guise of musky or walleye fishing. But until it is black and white it's only opinion and by law, worthless. Blabbering complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Thanks Grimsbylander. That about wraps it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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