Pool and Pond Owners

[jedimaster]

So if you haven't heard...a guy has a pond in his fenced backyard. His neighbors 2 year old kid went into the backyard and drowned. So tragic. But the homeowner has now been charged with criminal neglangence causing death.

 

If its more than 2 feet deep you can be charged like this.

 

Becareful folks and be safe....

 

 

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120619/120619_Police_Blotter/20120619/?hub=CP24Home

[Pikeslayer]

This is the second incident in approx 4 weeks. A little toddler in Mississauga is in a coma after being found in a backyard pond.

 

So sad.

[Muskieman]

Feel sorry for the family who lost the toddler , BUT ..... What a stupid law ,

I'd fight it tooth and nail.

IMO if anyone is at fault it's not the landowner ( if the property is fenced in) .... The fault falls on the persons in charge of watching the toddler ....

 

Tragic no matter which way you chose to side.

[Grimace]

I do not let my 3 year old out of my sight. Ever!!

[Muskieman]

I do not let my 3 year old out of my sight. Ever!!

Mine are 9 and 15 , I do the same .

[Christopheraaron]

Feel sorry for the family who lost the toddler , BUT ..... What a stupid law ,

I'd fight it tooth and nail.

IMO if anyone is at fault it's not the landowner ( if the property is fenced in) .... The fault falls on the persons in charge of watching the toddler ....

 

Tragic no matter which way you chose to side.

 

x2

[Christopheraaron]

Mine are 9 and 15 , I do the same .

 

Mine are, oh wait.....

[adempsey]

Charge the neighbor? How about charge the mother? WTH?

[Dontcryformejanhrdina]

That's Canada's justice system for ya.

[Burtess]

The pond was not fenced.... hence the charges. There most probably is a bylaw for this.... hence the charges.

If it were fenced, there would be no charges (and no death for that matter).

Makes sense to me.

 

Burt

[crappieperchhunter]

In the SEVENTIES my parents got an above ground pool installed. Fencing Bylaws existed way back then. Seems buddies fence must have been open or woefully inadequate for a 2 year old toddler to have drowned.

 

And as far as being perfect parents and never EVER letting your kids out of your site...well I will freely admit we lost our daughter for a split second in a shopping mall once. Most terrified I have ever been in my life. Seems other parents are like my wife and I and not perfect.

 

Accidents happen and they always will. It's just too bad when the end result is a tragedy like this one. I feel for both the parents and the neighbor who just wanted to have a nice feature in his yard.

Edited June 20, 2012 by crappieperchhunter

[BillM]

Accidents happen, but apparently we've got a bunch of perfect parents in this thread.

[HTHM]

As this thread is getting more attention, here is a post given in the spirit of public service:

 

Link to original article: http://gcaptain.com/drowning/?10981

 

The new captain jumped from the cockpit, fully dressed, and sprinted through the water. A former lifeguard, he kept his eyes on his victim as he headed straight for the owners who were swimming between their anchored sportfisher and the beach. “I think he thinks you’re drowning,” the husband said to his wife. They had been splashing each other and she had screamed but now they were just standing, neck-deep on the sand bar. “We’re fine, what is he doing?” she asked, a little annoyed. “We’re fine!” the husband yelled, waving him off, but his captain kept swimming hard. ”Move!” he barked as he sprinted between the stunned owners. Directly behind them, not ten feet away, their nine-year-old daughter was drowning. Safely above the surface in the arms of the captain, she burst into tears, “Daddy!”

 

How did this captain know, from fifty feet away, what the father couldn’t recognize from just ten? Drowning is not the violent, splashing, call for help that most people expect. The captain was trained to recognize drowning by experts and years of experience. The father, on the other hand, had learned what drowning looks like by watching television. If you spend time on or near the water (hint: that’s all of us) then you should make sure that you and your crew knows what to look for whenever people enter the water. Until she cried a tearful, “Daddy,” she hadn’t made a sound. As a former Coast Guard rescue swimmer, I wasn’t surprised at all by this story. Drowning is almost always a deceptively quiet event. The waving, splashing, and yelling that dramatic conditioning (television) prepares us to look for, is rarely seen in real life.

 

The Instinctive Drowning Response – so named by Francesco A. Pia, Ph.D., is what people do to avoid actual or perceived suffocation in the water. And it does not look like most people expect. There is very little splashing, no waving, and no yelling or calls for help of any kind. To get an idea of just how quiet and undramatic from the surface drowning can be, consider this: It is the number two cause of accidental death in children, age 15 and under (just behind vehicle accidents) – of the approximately 750 children who will drown next year, about 375 of them will do so within 25 yards of a parent or other adult. In ten percent of those drownings, the adult will actually watch them do it, having no idea it is happening (source: CDC). Drowning does not look like drowning – Dr. Pia, in an article in the Coast Guard’s On Scene Magazine, described the instinctive drowning response like this:

 

Except in rare circumstances, drowning people are physiologically unable to call out for help. Th e respiratory system was designed for breathing. Speech is the secondary or overlaid function. Breathing must be fulfilled, before speech occurs.

Drowning people’s mouths alternately sink below and reappear above the surface of the water. The mouths of drowning people are not above the surface of the water long enough for them to exhale, inhale, and call out for help. When the drowning people’s mouths are above the surface, they exhale and inhale quickly as their mouths start to sink below the surface of the water.

Drowning people cannot wave for help. Nature instinctively forces them to extend their arms laterally and press down on the water’s surface. Pressing down on the surface of the water, permits drowning people to leverage their bodies so they can lift their mouths out of the water to breathe.

Throughout the Instinctive Drowning Response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer, or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment.

From beginning to end of the Instinctive Drowning Response people’s bodies remain upright in the water, with no evidence of a supporting kick. Unless rescued by a trained lifeguard, these drowning people can only struggle on the surface of the water from 20 to 60 seconds before submersion occurs.

(Source: On Scene Magazine: Fall 2006)

This doesn’t mean that a person that is yelling for help and thrashing isn’t in real trouble – they are experience aquatic distress. Not always present before the instinctive drowning response, aquatic distress doesn’t last long – but unlike true drowning, these victims can still assist in there own rescue. They can grab lifelines, throw rings, etc.

 

Look for these other signs of drowning when persons are n the water:

 

Head low in the water, mouth at water level

Head tilted back with mouth open

Eyes glassy and empty, unable to focus

Eyes closed

Hair over forehead or eyes

Not using legs – Vertical

Hyperventilating or gasping

Trying to swim in a particular direction but not making headway

Trying to roll over on the back

Ladder climb, rarely out of the water.

So if a crew member falls overboard and every looks O.K. – don’t be too sure. Sometimes the most common indication that someone is drowning is that they don’t look like they’re drowning. They may just look like they are treading water and looking up at the deck. One way to be sure? Ask them: “Are you alright?” If they can answer at all – they probably are. If they return a blank stare – you may have less than 30 seconds to get to them. And parents: children playing in the water make noise. When they get quiet, you get to them and find out why.

[Grimace]

Accidents happen, but apparently we've got a bunch of perfect parents in this thread.

 

 

Do you have a kid Bill? If you do, then tell me the last time that your kid when it was two years old was out of your sight. Then tell me the last time that your kid was out of your sight long enough to leave your property, enter another persons property, and then fall into a pool and drown. That is a significant amount of time.

 

Sorry but that is a far from being perfect. Like I said, My 3 year old has never left my sight while under my care. Never! Toddlers need constant supervision and by constant I mean that they need to be continuously watched and supervised every second. It is not like a 5 year old kid where you have established some trust.

 

It is easy for people with out kids who have never had that responsibility to chuckle at parents like myself that always watch their kids. It is also very easy for people with older kids who looking back through the years forget just how challenging toddlers can be while looking at their teenagers.

 

No, I am far from perfect, but my toddler will never leave my sight long enough to run onto a road, into a pond, or into a river or anything like that.

 

You can go on about 'Why can't we just let kids be kids' and I agree, but toddlers aren't kids yet, they are toddlers and need more supervision, constant supervision.

[Dontcryformejanhrdina]

Accidents happen, but apparently we've got a bunch of perfect parents in this thread.

 

 

 

Really. I know of a few times as a toddler I wandered off (I'm the youngest of 5 kids, it was impossible to keep an eye on everyone at once). Thankfully nothing bad happened, which is the case 99.9% of the time. As scary of a thought as it is, you can't protect your kids from everything, and even something like drowning can happen in a very short amount of time. Can somebody HONESTLY say they've never had their kids out of their sight for 30 seconds? If not, then your kids are going to need a good shrink when they're grown up lol.

 

 

There's a reason they're called accidents.

[Grimace]

Can somebody HONESTLY say they've never had their kids out of their sight for 30 seconds? If not, then your kids are going to need a good shrink when they're grown up lol.

 

 

At 2 or 3 yes! At 5 or 6 no.

 

The kid won't need a shrink if it is constantly supervised at 2 or 3 years old. People over parenting kids are laughable. I prescribe to the George Carlin school of thought. But toddlers are different, you have to watch them constantly.

 

You looking back on your childhood vaguely for evidence on what good parental supervision is for a toddler (which of course most people have no real memory of)is evidence enough for me the guess that you do not have kids. Otherwise you would look back on your adult memories of supervising them through the toddler stage.

[Sinker]

I would call this negligence of the parent as well. I will never understand how a 2 year old can be unsupervised long enough to leave the property, get into a pond, and drown. So tragic, and so preventable.

 

S.

[Twocoda]

You know....the problem with bylaws that seem stupid is to place blame/accountability on someone other than the person(s) that have suffered an expense/loss of unimaginable proportions...In this case there are many faults at play on many different fronts including the city that imposed the bylaw in the first place...(someone had to have died in a previous situation so it became a by law)... Granted due diligence can save lives and bylaws can bring awareness by putting a monetary value to them...but it doesnt change the fact that this happened and will happen again at some point in time regardless of the Laws...People are suffering a tragic accident including the homeowner of the pond...how do you live comfortably in a house or have a BBQ with friends in your backyard knowing something terrible happened right there ....I dont beleive the intentions of a pond are to hurt anyones child...but merely for aesthetics and the enjoyment of a couple of fish to watch while you have a cold beverage...As bad as this may sound...where was the toddlers gaurdian at the time of accident (thats who failed responsibility )..Toddlers are Never to be left alone unless they are sleeping in a crib or playpen and even then...they get checked in on....My heart goes out to all involved for such a tragedy...but if any certain area of this county requires a law to fence a pond to save a life...then i think the whole country should comply to the same rules including our governments obligation to install fences along EVERY river lake pond etc that bears a depth of 2 feet

 

Not meant to be harsh in anyway way...there are people suffering because of this ACCIDENT but i couldnt hold this in anymore....i really did try

My heart goes out to all involved

[Live2fish85]

I agree with Grimace and Sinker. I have two daughters the oldest is 2 and a half. I don't take my eyes off of her. It is nothing about being to pertective at all when the child is 2-3 they will always be curious and don't really know right from wrong.

 

Thinking a kid will need a shrink cause you watch them so close at that age is a dumb thing to say.

 

I see where Bill is coming from as things do happen. Like my daughter falling off the couch when you go get a drink but at 2 no child should be left unsupervised outside or inside.

 

It is a tragic thing to hear and sad to see a child lose there life too someone being careless.

[Stoty]

The pond was not fenced.... hence the charges. There most probably is a bylaw for this.... hence the charges.

If it were fenced, there would be no charges (and no death for that matter).

Makes sense to me.

 

His yard was... that's all that should be needed.

Totally the parents fault.

 

But yet again... everyone is innocent...it's "the other guy" that's always at fault!

[Dontcryformejanhrdina]

I agree with Grimace and Sinker. I have two daughters the oldest is 2 and a half. I don't take my eyes off of her. It is nothing about being to pertective at all when the child is 2-3 they will always be curious and don't really know right from wrong.

 

Thinking a kid will need a shrink cause you watch them so close at that age is a dumb thing to say.

 

I see where Bill is coming from as things do happen. Like my daughter falling off the couch when you go get a drink but at 2 no child should be left unsupervised outside or inside.

 

It is a tragic thing to hear and sad to see a child lose there life too someone being careless.

 

 

That was more in reference to the "Mine are 9 and 15 , I do the same " quote, and even then it was said tongue in cheek. I just find it a little too much how so many people automatically blame the parents and act as if they never made a mistake, like you mentioning your kid falling off the couch. NO parent is perfect, no matter what you think. Who knows, maybe the parents are bad and were passed out from smoking crack, or maybe the parent was distracted for a few seconds while in their yard by another one of their children, a kid can wander off out of sight in 5 seconds and the next thing you know the parent doesn't know which direction the kid went, goes the wrong way looking for the kid and a few seconds turns into a minute which is more than enough time for a child to drown in a neighbour's pond. Like the article posted by HTHM mentioned, a child can drown very close by without even hearing it. Freak occurances happen, what if your kid never fell off the couch, but pulled a large picture tube tv onto itself or something else top heavy when you turned to answer the phone? Doesn't automatically make you a careless/terrible parent. I'm not going to automatically condemn the parents without full knowledge of the situation and act as if nothing bad could ever happen to my kids, that's all I'm saying.

[Burtess]

His yard was... that's all that should be needed.

Totally the parents fault.

 

But yet again... everyone is innocent...it's "the other guy" that's always at fault!

 

"The charge against Sriranganathan Ampalam, 58, was for not fencing off the pond as required by city bylaw, police said."

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/211046--toddler-rushed-to-hospital-after-possible-drowning

 

They had the city workers fence it off later that day.

 

And to the parents that never leave their kids out of their sight.... just wait, it will happen to you too, it just hasn't yet, and it will make you frantic when they disappear. (and yes, I have 3)....

 

Burt

[Stoty]

I said that SHOULD be all that was needed. No doubt there is a by-law for that, as there is for everything else as well.

 

What's next... fencing off our bathtubs?!?!

Edited June 20, 2012 by Stoty

[crappieperchhunter]

"

And to the parents that never leave their kids out of their sight.... just wait, it will happen to you too, it just hasn't yet, and it will make you frantic when they disappear. (and yes, I have 3)....

 

 

 

X2.

I was good... but my wife was unbelievable and it happened to us. Consider it luck not good management if it never happens to you.

 

The bottom line though is if buddy would have followed the by-law it never would have happened. This is one of those laws that a lot of people probably ignore...but it is out there for just this reason.

[iFish4real]

You know....the problem with bylaws that seem stupid is to place blame/accountability on someone other than the person(s) that have suffered an expense/loss of unimaginable proportions...In this case there are many faults at play on many different fronts including the city that imposed the bylaw in the first place...(someone had to have died in a previous situation so it became a by law)... Granted due diligence can save lives and bylaws can bring awareness by putting a monetary value to them...but it doesnt change the fact that this happened and will happen again at some point in time regardless of the Laws...People are suffering a tragic accident including the homeowner of the pond...how do you live comfortably in a house or have a BBQ with friends in your backyard knowing something terrible happened right there ....I dont beleive the intentions of a pond are to hurt anyones child...but merely for aesthetics and the enjoyment of a couple of fish to watch while you have a cold beverage...As bad as this may sound...where was the toddlers gaurdian at the time of accident (thats who failed responsibility )..Toddlers are Never to be left alone unless they are sleeping in a crib or playpen and even then...they get checked in on....My heart goes out to all involved for such a tragedy...but if any certain area of this county requires a law to fence a pond to save a life...then i think the whole country should comply to the same rules including our governments obligation to install fences along EVERY river lake pond etc that bears a depth of 2 feet

 

Not meant to be harsh in anyway way...there are people suffering because of this ACCIDENT but i couldnt hold this in anymore....i really did try

My heart goes out to all involved

 

 

It's even unbelievable such a law exists, it looks like it only applies to private ponds/pools...what if the kid drowned in a public river/lake??? would the police charge the gov. for not fencing them???...totally ridiculous, a 2 year old wondering around long enough to be able to drown in the neighbor's pond absolutely parents/guardians fault...