Nipfisher Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) I bought this package off of a buddy a few years back. The boat is a Starcraft 170C which is 16.9 feet long. The Easy Hauler trailer is made for up to 16' boats. I was able to use it for the last 2 years but was always worried about my boat rolling off, short of the water, as I launched it. So when I put it away this fall I pulled out the tounge and had a buddy extend it for me. I re-drilled the bolt hole and put it back together. I gained 29" and think it will make a big difference. I know it will be tougher to back up but I hope it is easier to launch and land. Now I just have to fix the trim on the 90hp Yamaha. The unit has already been replaced once and continues to leak down (no fluid leak). It trims up and down fine but won't hold. Also will not allow me to hold the boat re-planed for max speed. I have already spent $300 trying to fix it and I have just committed another $300 Edited April 12, 2012 by Nipfisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikeslayer Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) " I know it will be tougher to back up but I hope it is easier to launch and land" Actually, I think you will find the opposite. The longer the trailer, the easier to back up. Have you ever backed up one of those 6 ft. utility trailers?? Slayer Edited April 12, 2012 by pikeslayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 " I know it will be tougher to back up but I hope it is easier to launch and land" Actually, I think you will find the opposite. The longer the trailer, the easier to back up. Have you ever backed up one of those 6 ft. utility trailers?? Slayer Yep, the longer the distance between the hitch and trailer wheels the easier it is to back up. In Florida I was the truck driving launch and retrieve guy when fishing with my buddy. His boat is a 20' glass bay boat and the trailer is quite long compared to my 18 footer back home. It backed up like a dream. Very smooth and easy to manouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfish Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Have you ever backed up one of those 6 ft. utility trailers?? Left,,,no right,,,now left,,,,now,r,,,,,,,ah the hell with it,lets just push it into place. Nice fix. You,ll be pleased you did what you did, like the others have said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip-ripper Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Looks good Blair, make sure the balance isn't thrown off too much by the modification though. That mod will increase the tongue weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenboater Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Left,,,no right,,,now left,,,,now,r,,,,,,,ah the hell with it,lets just push it into place. lol, so it's not just me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Trim can only be one of two things (or both I guess).. either the seal on the piston is leaking by from side to side, or a check valve is gone in the trim pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nipfisher Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Trim can only be one of two things (or both I guess).. either the seal on the piston is leaking by from side to side, or a check valve is gone in the trim pump. Wayne, the pump units are sealed so the check valves are not accessible. It has been looked over twice by a Yamaha mechanic and he used my original unit and another one I bought used and made a unit that works for the most part. It will hold in the up position for about 20 minutes so it is good for landing the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 if you are not loosing oil how can it not be the check valve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nipfisher Posted April 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) if you are not loosing oil how can it not be the check valve Terry, is there a difference between check valve and one-way valve? The one way valves in the pump unit are not accessible. If anyone wants to try to fix it let me know. I'll pay gas and time and feed you and let you sleep here. Oh ya, and beer too. Has to be cheaper then $300!. Edited April 12, 2012 by Nipfisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey buoy Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 if you are not loosing oil how can it not be the check valve Defineatly a internal leak.But because both pistons are losing oil pressure check the trim valve body.The operation requires two way oil flow,up/down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Terry, is there a difference between check valve and one-way valve? The one way valves in the pump unit are not accessible. If anyone wants to try to fix it let me know. I'll pay gas and time and feed you and let you sleep here. Oh ya, and beer too. Has to be cheaper then $300!. I have been chasing this fix on my outboard for about 7 years now....tried everything.....parts are almost impossible to get because the unit is 27 years old.... mine is pretty much like yours....I can launch and retrieve the boat without problem....I can power up while under power and it will hold for about 10 minutes or so....then I just power up again....I raised the trim rest so the motor doesn't go all the way down under power...as if I didn't have power trim/tilt....I'm done chasing a fix and wasting money on this.....everyone could fix it but never does....if this is the only problem I have with a 27 year old outboard motor that has seen LOTS of trolling and high speed cruising, well then I'm happy.....If you keep chasing the fix I hope you find it. BTW right near my fire hall there is a unit on a boat that hasn't moved in about 5 years...it teases me on every fire call I make....I sometimes wonder if I should make a offer on that boat and remove the power trim/tilt unit and then resell the rig without one....but then it's got to be a OLD unit just like mine as Johnson changed the design a couple years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nipfisher Posted April 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I have been chasing this fix on my outboard for about 7 years now....tried everything.....parts are almost impossible to get because the unit is 27 years old.... mine is pretty much like yours....I can launch and retrieve the boat without problem....I can power up while under power and it will hold for about 10 minutes or so....then I just power up again....I raised the trim rest so the motor doesn't go all the way down under power...as if I didn't have power trim/tilt....I'm done chasing a fix and wasting money on this.....everyone could fix it but never does....if this is the only problem I have with a 27 year old outboard motor that has seen LOTS of trolling and high speed cruising, well then I'm happy.....If you keep chasing the fix I hope you find it. BTW right near my fire hall there is a unit on a boat that hasn't moved in about 5 years...it teases me on every fire call I make....I sometimes wonder if I should make a offer on that boat and remove the power trim/tilt unit and then resell the rig without one....but then it's got to be a OLD unit just like mine as Johnson changed the design a couple years later. Lots of units available for mine BB. It is a 1995. Some guys want $600 for the replacement unit without a guarantee it works. I hear "it worked when I took it off" but that doesn't cut it and once it has been removed you can't test it until it is under load. Sure you can make it go up and down but need the weight of the motor to see if it will hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 " I know it will be tougher to back up but I hope it is easier to launch and land" Actually, I think you will find the opposite. The longer the trailer, the easier to back up. Have you ever backed up one of those 6 ft. utility trailers?? Slayer Yep! I have driven trailers up to 53 feet long, the short ones are more of an issue backing, they can get away faster. The hardest thing for me to back up was my lawn cart on my lawn tractor, way too short! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybo Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Trim engine all the way up.Support engine with 2x4.Remove top line off cylinder.Trim up.If oil is still coming out of hole your packings are leaking by.No oil then it`s the check valve or relief valve if has one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nipfisher Posted April 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Trim engine all the way up.Support engine with 2x4.Remove top line off cylinder.Trim up.If oil is still coming out of hole your packings are leaking by.No oil then it`s the check valve or relief valve if has one. 1st test we did Paul. No oil leaking out and CAN'T access the 1-way valves (3 of them internal) so I am still looking at new pump unit. Just bolts on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybo Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 There should be a manual screw release.It should be accessible threw the side of the mount.Oil will flow when remove. Replace o-rings or replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybo Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 One more.The sub divider valve.This controls which way the oil flows to the cylinder.think the unit may need to come out to do this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey buoy Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 The valve body is leaking internally as the system is a two way.Hope you can find a new block,as I would just remove,disassemble and replace the o-rings.Long as there is no visible wear on the spool valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 The tilt and trim system looks very much like my old V4 OMC. 2 short throw cylinders for the trim and a single long throw for the tilt. At full tilt position I have a spring loaded lever that you flip down and you warned to slightly lower the tilt so that this bears the weight of the engine rather than the hydraulics, also you are warned not to operate the engine under power with the motor trimmed past the full extension of the 2 trim cylinders, just saying this is how my manual reads. As far as the problem goes and I am no hydraulic specialist, I wonder if somehow maybe the system has got some air into the cylinders, air being compressable and fluid not it could produce the symtoms as related here, maybe operated with low fluid and air was injected into the cylinders, anyone know if this system is self bleeding or how to bleed it, could be worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey buoy Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 The tilt and trim system looks very much like my old V4 OMC. 2 short throw cylinders for the trim and a single long throw for the tilt. At full tilt position I have a spring loaded lever that you flip down and you warned to slightly lower the tilt so that this bears the weight of the engine rather than the hydraulics, also you are warned not to operate the engine under power with the motor trimmed past the full extension of the 2 trim cylinders, just saying this is how my manual reads. As far as the problem goes and I am no hydraulic specialist, I wonder if somehow maybe the system has got some air into the cylinders, air being compressable and fluid not it could produce the symtoms as related here, maybe operated with low fluid and air was injected into the cylinders, anyone know if this system is self bleeding or how to bleed it, could be worth a try. If the oil level is where it's suppose to be and all connections tight,the air will /with the oil return to tank.If oil is low and filter dirty,cavitation may occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybo Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 The tilt and trim system looks very much like my old V4 OMC. 2 short throw cylinders for the trim and a single long throw for the tilt. At full tilt position I have a spring loaded lever that you flip down and you warned to slightly lower the tilt so that this bears the weight of the engine rather than the hydraulics, also you are warned not to operate the engine under power with the motor trimmed past the full extension of the 2 trim cylinders, just saying this is how my manual reads. As far as the problem goes and I am no hydraulic specialist, I wonder if somehow maybe the system has got some air into the cylinders, air being compressable and fluid not it could produce the symtoms as related here, maybe operated with low fluid and air was injected into the cylinders, anyone know if this system is self bleeding or how to bleed it, could be worth a try. Yes. On a short throw cylinder the air needs to be bled out.Same as single line activation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybo Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 The valve body is leaking internally as the system is a two way.Hope you can find a new block,as I would just remove,disassemble and replace the o-rings.Long as there is no visible wear on the spool valve. What do you mean by``valve body``. In hydraulics this term is used for multiple control valve delivering oil to one function and also know to be used as a term for a flow divider.Which holds multiple spools and or multiple control valves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nipfisher Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) One more.The sub divider valve.This controls which way the oil flows to the cylinder.think the unit may need to come out to do this one. BINGO! You win the prize Paul. I just had the Yamaha guy on the phone and said he can fix it. There are 2 sub-divider valves. One is easy to replace but can't tell if it will fix it. The other involves opening the pump unit and replacing it. Both kits are $90 each. The 1st vale is only 15 minutes work (think we checked that one) the other is a 2 hour job. If I get lucky then it will only be $130 ($90 + labour) to fix. If it is the internal one it will be close to $400 2x $90 + labour). Davey bouy, sounds like this is what you were trying to explain as well. Edited April 17, 2012 by Nipfisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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