Medical files- COMPLETELY NON FISHING!!!!!!

[nroadrunner]

My doctor retired this year as well. I got a call from another doctor advising me they would be taking all Dr smyth's patients. I advised them I would not be using them and would be using the same physician as my wife and son are using. Not a problem files were sent over to the physician I chose never paid a nickel. Sounds to me like your Dr is POed they will not be billing for your family visits for the next 50 years so they are sticking it to you now.

 

Ian

[cram]

Headhunter -- some stuff that may help......

 

According to the College of Physicians and Surgeons, they are allowed/expected to have you pay a *reasonable* fee for the copying/transfer of records. I would find out from them what is "reasonable"? $500 seems like an awful lot.

 

That said - i wouldn't be surprised if doctors are legally expected to document EVERYTHING from every visit or examination you've had. Finding and preparing this all of this info might actually take some time.....so i wonder if the fee goes down if you ask the doctor for specific stuff. May be less time consuming and less expensive if they only have to copy the stuff that is specific to the major or long term conditions you and your family may have.

 

Something else from the CPSO...

 

When physicians cease to practice medicine (either because they no longer maintain their certificate of registration13 or they’ve died) two options are available with respect to patient records. The medical records may be transferred to another physician at the same address and phone number or they may be retained (either personally or through the use of a commercial record storage company).

 

Before patient records are transferred to a physician’s successor, the physician or his or her representative must make a reasonable effort to give notice to patients, or where this is not reasonably possible, the physician or his or her representative must notify patients as soon as possible after the transfer has occurred.

 

You might reach out to the Privacy Commissioner for Ontario (assume you can find on Google). WOuldn't hurt to first review (and arm yourself with relevant info from) sections 42 and 54 of the Personal Healthcare Information Protection Act....you can find both here - http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_04p03_e.htm

[cram]

Two more things...

 

- while *notes* etc may belong to the physician, i think you might be able to get scans/xrays/etc separately

 

- if they do need to keep your files for 10 yrs, you may want to just give your new doctor a summary of everyone and let the other doctor hold the other ones as backup for 10 yrs. Pay for them (or a portion thereof) only when you need them. If you don't need them, great. If you do, assume it'll be for one patient at a time ($125?)

[Nanook]

You've prolly hsd this snswer befor.but 6 yrs ago we decided to change Doc's as the 'old' one stsrted charging.for anything he could think of.

The new doc requested a transfer of files,and at $75;00 each we told him we just could not afford it . Havent heard anything about it since.

Over the last 6 yrs Ive built a new file thick enough to ckoke a horse

[Bly]

Wish I had a good answer for you HH, will definitely be watching this thread though as I may be in the same spot soon.

[Headhunter]

Thanks for all the advice and thoughts here folks... and thanks Cram for the links.

At this point, my wife and I are considering how much of each file we really need to retain. I'm sure, based on my recollection of my file atleast, it contains well over 25 years of info, as my file has moved a number of times between docs.

I'm waiting for a bit to see what else I can learn here, as well as any responses for media outlets I have connected with.

Coming to the conclusion that it's gonna cost me something, but I think we can narrow it down to a couple of hundred if we are careful in what we ask for...

That being said, I still think it's a mockery of a travesty that the "consumer" has to pay for this type of thing. To my mind, this is a cost of doing business and docs should consider it so. I understand that each doc is running a small business, but their profession of choice, like so many others, has it's costs and they should be factored in to their budgets.

Thanks again all!

HH

[cram]

Thanks for all the advice and thoughts here folks... and thanks Cram for the links.

At this point, my wife and I are considering how much of each file we really need to retain. I'm sure, based on my recollection of my file atleast, it contains well over 25 years of info, as my file has moved a number of times between docs.

I'm waiting for a bit to see what else I can learn here, as well as any responses for media outlets I have connected with.

Coming to the conclusion that it's gonna cost me something, but I think we can narrow it down to a couple of hundred if we are careful in what we ask for...

That being said, I still think it's a mockery of a travesty that the "consumer" has to pay for this type of thing. To my mind, this is a cost of doing business and docs should consider it so. I understand that each doc is running a small business, but their profession of choice, like so many others, has it's costs and they should be factored in to their budgets.

Thanks again all!

HH

 

Sounds like a good plan. You likely don't need ALL (or even most) of the info. I would also reach out to the ontario college of physicians and surgeons and ask them what a reasonable and fair price is

 

If push comes to shove, you may make a little noise that you were not properly notified (sounds like they are obligated to), especially considering files went to a doctor at a different address (which seems to be an important differentiation for them)

[wallyboss]

But it might be more expensive if they have to go thru and find the files that you need. Instead of just photocopying everything.

[SlowPoke]

One word; Watergate.

 

But seriously; at that price it had better come with a powerpoint presentation, buffet and a guest speaker. Go for Jim Ralph, he's a riot in person.

 

Have you been in contact with your old Doctor? I wonder if she couldn't do something for you.

[Big Cliff]

I might be way off base here but if I understand correctly these are YOUR files and you need to get them moved to another Dr.. If so, I would show up at the Dr.s office where the files are and ask for them, they are your files right? Can they refuse to show them to you?

 

Then I would sit there with my digital camera and take a picture of every page in the file (and or explain that if they would rather just have you leave with YOUR files you'd be happy to oblidge them)

 

Now if they want to call the police, I would offer to dial the number for them because they are holding files which are your property for a ransom as I see it. You aren't trying to steal anything, I'll bet there are no copy rights on any of those pages, I'd feel very sorry for the poor cop that had to respond but I have a feeling you'd get your files.

 

Lastly, if that doesn't work, go to the media, I can tell you some stories about the Min. of Health; Dr.s and the media that would make your head turn!

 

Someday when I have time I'll tell you about how Sue laid in an ICU unit for a month waiting for heart surgery until I threatened to get the media involved. She had her surgery within two days after that! Someone had screwed up!

[canadadude]

Thanks for all the advice and thoughts here folks... and thanks Cram for the links.

At this point, my wife and I are considering how much of each file we really need to retain. I'm sure, based on my recollection of my file atleast, it contains well over 25 years of info, as my file has moved a number of times between docs.

I'm waiting for a bit to see what else I can learn here, as well as any responses for media outlets I have connected with.

Coming to the conclusion that it's gonna cost me something, but I think we can narrow it down to a couple of hundred if we are careful in what we ask for...

That being said, I still think it's a mockery of a travesty that the "consumer" has to pay for this type of thing. To my mind, this is a cost of doing business and docs should consider it so. I understand that each doc is running a small business, but their profession of choice, like so many others, has it's costs and they should be factored in to their budgets.

Thanks again all!

HH

The costs are factored in $37.50 + $1.45 per page to transfer the file.Why should the cost of transfering files be factored in to there budgets so other patients who stay with there doctor have to absorb these costs.

[canadadude]

I might be way off base here but if I understand correctly these are YOUR files and you need to get them moved to another Dr.. If so, I would show up at the Dr.s office where the files are and ask for them, they are your files right? Can they refuse to show them to you?

 

Then I would sit there with my digital camera and take a picture of every page in the file (and or explain that if they would rather just have you leave with YOUR files you'd be happy to oblidge them)

 

Now if they want to call the police, I would offer to dial the number for them because they are holding files which are your property for a ransom as I see it. You aren't trying to steal anything, I'll bet there are no copy rights on any of those pages, I'd feel very sorry for the poor cop that had to respond but I have a feeling you'd get your files.

 

Lastly, if that doesn't work, go to the media, I can tell you some stories about the Min. of Health; Dr.s and the media that would make your head turn!

 

Someday when I have time I'll tell you about how Sue laid in an ICU unit for a month waiting for heart surgery until I threatened to get the media involved. She had her surgery within two days after that! Someone had screwed up!

They are not YOUR files the files are the property of the doctor,they are about you but they are not your property

[smally21]

my doc recently retired, didn't have any suggestionns for new doctor but told me HE is responsible for those documents for a period of 15 years and if i dont transfer them he has to store them. after signing a release they were transfered to my new doctor for a fee of 25.00. there were no copying fees as there was no copying, the originals were transfered. i was also given about four months notice prior to his closing. it seems your records were sent once to another doctor without your consent???

[Headhunter]

Cliff, as I understand it, the files are the property of the doc. That is, according to the Ministry of Health and the College of Physicians.

Canadadude... I get what your saying, but I have to disagree... to my mind, which is suspect at best, these costs, in a social health system, should be considered the cost of doing business.

That said, my real beef here is that a Doc, who I have never met, never been to her office, never filled out an information sheet, is holding our file hostage, unless and until I pay for them. The system in place is not designed with the best interest of the patient in mind, it's based on the all mighty dollar.

In my business, our costs are factored into our charges to our clients. Those fees are agreed upon by both parties in advance of any and all work performed. In this situation, there are no agreements in place between the "consumer" and the service provider. They are a hidden cost that only bares it's ugly head, when the "consumer" is forced or decides to make a change.

As of this note being written, I have not heard back from any of the media outlets I have contacted.

Brian, I have no way to contact my former doc, as she is completely out of the picture at this point.

Smally, I was not given the option to pay for a transfer... had I been, this thread probably would never seen the light of day.

HH

Edited August 25, 2010 by Headhunter

[canadadude]

Unfortunatly OHIP dosn't cover alot of things,it cost me $10 for a note for my employer from my doctor.I had a heart attack $45 for the ambulance ride I was billed.My doctor has a list posted in his office on the costs not covered by OHIP.

[cram]

Cliff, as I understand it, the files are the property of the doc. That is, according to the Ministry of Health and the College of Physicians.

Canadadude... I get what your saying, but I have to disagree... to my mind, which is suspect at best, these costs, in a social health system, should be considered the cost of doing business.

That said, my real beef here is that a Doc, who I have never met, never been to her office, never filled out an information sheet, is holding our file hostage, unless and until I pay for them. The system in place is not designed with the best interest of the patient in mind, it's based on the all mighty dollar.

In my business, our costs are factored into our charges to our clients. Those fees are agreed upon by both parties in advance of any and all work performed. In this situation, there are no agreements in place between the "consumer" and the service provider. They are a hidden cost that only bares it's ugly head, when the "consumer" is forced or decides to make a change.

As of this note being written, I have not heard back from any of the media outlets I have contacted.

Brian, I have no way to contact my former doc, as she is completely out of the picture at this point.

Smally, I was not given the option to pay for a transfer... had I been, this thread probably would never seen the light of day.

HH

Did you ask the college of physicians what a "fair" fee is? $500 for a family seems pretty steep.

[Headhunter]

Cram, I did ask and both the College and Ministry of Health repeated exactly the same line...

"The Ministry of Health allows for charges of $37.50 per file to be copied and a charge of $1.25 per page within the file, that is copied."

They did suggest that it was up to the discretion of the doc to determin if they will charge the maximum fee allowed, which is what I have outlined above.

Last conversation with the doc's office indicated that the they would be charging the max allowed under law.

HH

[Spiel]

I just came back from my Drs office, new sign on the receptionists window "Patient File Transfer $45.00"

 

Some 15 years back when my previous Dr retired I had his/my files transfered to my current Dr, cost.....$0.00

[BillsTheBassMan]

Last conversation with the doc's office indicated that the they would be charging the max allowed under law.

HH

 

 

What a scam! Again, this is a shakedown. You wonder if your old Doctor had a part in coordinating this.

[Rice Laker]

I know this won't help you today but the "Electronic Records" project the Ministry of Health has been working on will eventually negate all the "paper" in your medical records. Your total medical history, reports, x-rays, scans etc will be digital and transferred electonically.

 

Hopefully it won't cost another billion dollars...........

[Headhunter]

My old doctor actually was part of the University Health network. She had us sign up... intersting and I wonder how or if I can use this with our new doc?

I can't beleive that I actually forgot about that!

HH

[camillj]

HH - I feel your pain ... having had similar experiences (whenever we or doctors moved ) ... actually in one instance the real issue then wasn't even cost - it was in just getting it to happen. In my case we were going abroad and NEEDED a copy of our records to ensure the (as yet undetermined doctor) would have access to all the prescription issues (alot of them were ongoing at that time)

 

Anyhow I agree this is an issue that deserves public review - we should at least be entitled to a copy of our own records - we do after all PAY for our medical system ... some of us more than others !

 

And no Billy ... our Health Care system is far from free - but it is (in theory at least) accessible to all equally regardless of financial status.

 

BTW ... (and I know you already know this HH - but for the benefit of others) knowingly writing a bad cheque is not only immoral ... it's also against the law...it's called fraud.