Rice Laker

A family member is looking at a cottage on Deer Bay, Lower Buckhorn in the Kawarthas. Can a locals or frequent visitors advise how are the weeds during the spring and summer seasons? Thanks!

My wife and I purchased a seasonal fishing camp 18 years ago. With the right decisions/planning being made it can be a very satisfying semi-retirement. You don't work 18 hour days 24/7 as has been posted and in recent years we spent 2-3 months in Florida as our vacation. The busiest times are before opening (mid-May) and after closing (Thanksgiving). We got to know other couples who bought for similar reasons to us: large house in the GTA, kids had left home, mid 50's, job frustrations and just wanting a "mid-life change". From our experiences I would list the following as the most important points in evaluating camps: 1) A substantial repeat business; look at the reservations for this year, next year and the last 3 years. 2) See accountant prepared P & L statements. 3) A camp that has both cottages and daily boat rentals so you are not dependent on just one income stream. 4) 12-15 cottages can be easily run by a couple with weekend help for cleaning etc. Any more than that would probably require help during the week, meaning additional expenses. 5) If you have lived in a city for many years, evaluate carefully moving to a place in the "boonies". Being 2 hours from Canadian Tire, Walmart, Home Depot, Timmies, doctors and a hospital could be a real shock, especially for the wife!

It is very easy now, just go on-line to: http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/OC/2ColumnSubPage/STDU_137924.html Make sure you have her Outdoors Card number, her postal code, DOB and a credit card

I rent boats and go through the 15 point check list with those who do not have a Boat Operator’s Card. From my experiences, I would much rather be in a boat with someone who went through the checklist that morning than someone who got the Card 5 years ago on the Internet and has never been in a boat in their life...... Also in response to earlier postings, I don't know anyone who rents boats that "go 50mph".

Silly question: If and when the hybrid battery dies can you just run the car like a regular gas powered Highlander?

I live on Rice and rent boats, so have seen many anglers the last 3 months. The fishing has been EXCELLENT, especially bass since opening end of June. Walleye have also been good but frustrating as many are caught out of the slot size (35-50cm) and have to be returned. The weeds are terrible this year, the worst I have seen in 15 years. Had several calls out due to overheating motors, so am asking renters to go in reverse sooner than they might have done in other years.

I have rented boats to guys who took the test on line 5 years ago and have never once actually been in a boat. Couldn't even steer a tiller boat (thought the boat knew how to steer itself) but they had a licence.... Personally I would much rather be with someone who went through the checklist that morning, been told about any local hazards and had a good instruction in the safe operation of that boat and motor.

Newbie wrote: Make sure you have your boating license, you are required to have one now even if you are renting This is incorrect, you only need a Boat Operator's Card if you OWN a boat, it is NOT needed for renting. To rent a boat you go through a 15 point checklist, sign it and have a copy with. You are then just as legal as someone with a BOC. The card companies don't want you to know this, they want your $50-. Check out: http://www.boaterexam.com/canada/education/pdf/rental.pdf

My wife had a successful partial (Oxford) knee replacement last December in Peterborough. If you can get to Peterborough easily, the excellent surgeon was Dr Dobson and follow up physiotherapy at the new Trent Health in Motion facility at Trent U (705-741-4758. Good Luck!

A common misconception is that the RLTA did not support year round/ice fishing on Rice Lake. This is NOT true, the RLTA representative on the FMZ 17 Council voted FOR ice fishing, not against it. Concerns were raised about walleye being caught and safety issues as there are numerous cracks in the ice due to the constant water flow into the lake, but several other participants raised the same concerns.............. The RLTA always supported ice fishing.

I know this won't help you today but the "Electronic Records" project the Ministry of Health has been working on will eventually negate all the "paper" in your medical records. Your total medical history, reports, x-rays, scans etc will be digital and transferred electonically. Hopefully it won't cost another billion dollars...........

My boat rentals have not suffered this year. Lots of people call asking "must I have the Operator's Card?" As was said above, the Rental Checklist is all that is needed. Some question whether this should be allowed, but I would rather be on the lake with someone who went through the checklist and the proper operation of the boat this morning than with someone who took the test 5 years ago and has not been in a boat since.

I rent boats and take renters through a 15 point checklist that takes about 10 minutes. I photocopy the checklist and the renter takes the copy out with them. The nationality of the renter does not matter, the rules are the same for everyone. You did not mention if you have your own boat. If you do, you can use it for upto 45 days. You must have the required safety equipment (PFD, flashlight, whistle, paddle/oars, 50' rope and a bailing bucket).

I am musically challenged, can't even play a tambourine, but if I were buying a guitar, I would buy a Taylor. I learned about them after seeing the following video on YouTube: Great true story about Dave Carroll's problem with United Airlines. Dave (from Halifax NS)has become famous worldwide because of this video. Google him as well for more info.

This Pet Fish question reminded me of the following true story: A man was stopped by a Conservation Officer in Northern Algonquin Park recently with two buckets of fish leaving a lake well known for its fishing The C.O. asked the man, "Do you have a license to catch those fish?" The man replied to the C.O., "No, sir. These are my pet fish." "Pet fish?!" the C.O. replied. "Yes, sir, every night I take these here fish down to the lake and let them swim around for a while. I whistle and they jump back into their buckets, and I take em home." "That's a bunch of hooey! Fish can't do that!" The man looked at the C.O. for a moment, and then said, "Here, I'll show you. It really works." "O.K. I've GOT to see this!" The C.O. was curious. The man poured the fish in to the river and stood and waited. After several minutes, the C.O. turned to the man and said, "Well?" "Well, what?" the man responded. "When are you going to call them back?" the C.O. prompted. "Call who back?" the man asked. "The FISH" "What fish?" the man asked...........

If you are intersted in an established restaurant on Rice Lake, Britts in Bewdley is for sale......

Last night Michael Brown wrote "You must think if we stopped all fishing for bluegill in Rice Lake that they would start overflowing the banks. If we did not harvest a single fish from Rice, guess what the populations will find a sustainable level and balance" No, I don't agree with the first sentence and fully agree with the second. However, the big question is when that level and balance will be reached. Many people that actually live on the lake have seen in the last 2 years bluegills spawning in areas that have never spawned in before. They are expanding and Rice Lake is a huge lake. In a straight line, one end to the the other is about 36Km, so 72 Km for both sides, add 50% for all the bays and points and you have shoreline of over 100Kms. Add in the many islands that also have ideal spawning grounds and you have even more Kms. Rice Lake is unique, definitely different to the other Kawartha lakes, shalllow and very eutrophic. If there is only so much food to go around and there are more and more bluegills, guess what, they will be stunted. Exactly the situation we have now, not enough big ones. Michael also wrote "the problem is that any child fishing off their dock who caught a sunfish larger than 7 inches would be breaking the law. These fish are responsible for helping to recruite new anglers that the entire industry/sport needs. This would have been unacceptable" I agree, but as I mentioned in an earlier posting you are putting bluegills in a second tier of fish. Would you make the same comment about walleye or muskie? Should not all species be treated with the same respect? Measuring is not difficult, buy a 1"X2", cut off 7" and you can use the rest to make walleye measuring sticks...... Personally, I would have thought that having the kids measure bluegills would be a good introduction to explaining why size limits are necessary and important. Then when they "graduate" to walleye, muskie and other species with a size limit they are more likely to understand the reasoning and respect it. One final comment, the newspaper article that started this whole thread was incorrect. We do not want to go back to "No Limits", we would like what the FMZ 17 Council recommended, 500 with none over 7"

My response to Michael’s response follows: "Exactly, locals contribute nothing to tourism on the lake." Really? So the tens of thousands of local anglers who fish Rice Lake every year contribute nothing to the economy? I think what you mean is they don't book a cottage therefore you don't care. In fact I would confidently say they contribute far more than the non-resident anglers but I do appreciate the contributions of both groups. Here is a quote from a recent STATS Canada article; "In terms of direct expenditures, resident anglers spent over $1.6 billion on recreational fishing in 2005 (Table 2). Three quarters of these expenditures were spent on food, lodging and transportation costs. Less than 10% of the direct expenditures were for actual fishing supplies." Still think we contribute nothing? Please read my comment exactly. Yes, I said locals contribute nothing to tourism on the lake. To quote Stats Canada is completely irrelevant; spending in any other province, even the rest of Ontario is irrelevant, this whole topic is about Rice Lake. “Locals” drive up in the morning and leave in the evening. You live in Peterborough and I am sure buy all your supplies and equipment there, not anywhere around Rice. I will concede that the handful of restaurants around the lake benefit from “locals” but that is about it. "Strongly agree, that is why 5 years ago the RLTA, with the MNR's assistance, started a voluntary "throw back the big ones" campaign. It has started to work. There IS a shortage of large bluegills, so why do the new Regs allow 30 of any size. For sure, these will be big ones, the exact opposite of what the lake needs. The Reg implies that bluegills are a less important fish. There is a new size limit on walleye, why not on bluegills? The FMZ 17 council recommended a quantity limit of 500 and ZERO over 7. This would have been a much better solution to the problem and the majority of the US guests would still keep coming." The voluntary program is exactly that voluntary. I also have been looking into the non-resident angler responses and the majority are upset with the 7 inch size limit. The 300 number is a concession to the tourist operators and now you are complaining because it is not more. Only 10% percent of the non-residents coming to Rice lake are taking more than 300 home and some of those are taking several thousand. Your clients are leaving to go to other area lakes where they can find larger sunfish. Regardless of what lake they are on the cottage rental owners that have been allowing that kind of abuse to take place in there resorts should be ashamed of themselves. The US anglers who used to go home with “thousands” of fish are the ones who are no longer coming to the lake (50% reduction in the last 5 years). I agree some are cancelling because of the 7" size limit, but as I wrote before, we are as interested in improving the average size as anyone else (and it was the RLTA representative on the FMZ 17 Council that proposed the ZERO over 7") If that doesn’t show our concern, I don’t know what else would convince you. A good example of how little locals know about the bluegill fishery on Rice Lake. BTW, 45 years ago it was the MNR strongly encouraging the Rice Lake resorts to attract US bluegill anglers to prevent overpopulation. I have owned my resort for 12 years and in that time I have had TWO Ontario residents stay and catch bluegills. Other resorts would report similar low numbers. Canadians do NOT target bluegills. This is interesting. So you would like to use 45 year old data suggesting keeping as many as possible. If you wipe them out, you will have no business. The practices that have been allowed to take place has damaged the resource. Instead of fear mongering and complaining that the about the MNR....maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself just who is responsible for this abuse of the lake resources. Like you said, Canadians do NOT target bluegills and the glutanous persons causing this problem are not staying at my house! I used the 45 year number as a starting, reference point. Before 1965 there were no bluegills in Rice. To say “If you wipe them out, you will have no business” is pretty nonsensical. What did I write at the end of my earlier posting? ZERO FISH=ZERO BUSINESS. We need a sustainable fishery as much as anyone else, maybe more. Please don’t make us out to be raping and pillaging the lake. Also a quote from the recent article: "During the Zone 17 advisory council meetings before the Jan. 1 change, no information ever suggested that "sustain-ability of the sunfish population" required limits, Brough wrote. I disagree with this statement. We sat through hours and hours of meetings and read numerous reports and heard presentations from sunfish experts from all over North America. To ensure a quality fishery and a healthly population of sunfish, limits were absolutely suggested as an option. The RLTA represents it's own interests only. If you don't want to look like money grabbing people with no consideration for the health of the lake, then start acting like responsible resort owners who understand that a healthly well-managed fishery benefits everyone now and in the future. The non-resident anglers will come to enjoy the experience and the quality of a great fishery, harvest is secondary. Sorry Michael, I disagree with your disagree. SWISHMICK suggested for the best information look at: http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/264321.pdf Check page 19, it says “Black crappie and bluegill are not native to lakes within FMZ 17, but have become well established. These populations are now considered naturalized and it is unrealistic to expect a significant reduction in these populations at current levels of angler harvest”. So, if there are far fewer anglers out there, won’t the population increase ? Rice Lake is a fantastic fishery, there is enough for everyone to enjoy if we manage it properly. Completely agree, it has been for many years even when many more bluegills were being caught than there are today. As the MNR has reported many times, Rice Lake is the most productive lake in Ontario. One comment to DIGGYJ, if you have a cottage on Rice, you are not a tourist, you are a resident just like the rest of us who live on the lake, pay property taxes and support local businesses.

As a small cottage resort owner on Rice Lake, I would like to add a few comments to some of the posters: Michael Brown wrote “It is time for the anglers of the area to step up and let our local politicians know how important our sport is to the tourism of the area.” Agreed, but how much do local and GTA area anglers contribute to tourism on Rice Lake? Most drive up in the morning and drive home in the evening? Have any of you ever rented a Rice Lake cottage? “In fact it was shown that Rice Lake in particular was showing signs of stress due to over-harvest of the larger fish.” “There is no question the lake has a good population of sunfish but the need to protect the fishery from overharvest of the larger members of the population is important.”Strongly agree, that is why 5 years ago the RLTA, with the MNR’s assistance, started a voluntary “throw back the big ones” campaign. It has started to work. There IS a shortage of large bluegills, so why do the new Regs allow 30 of any size. For sure, these will be big ones, the exact opposite of what the lake needs. The Reg implies that bluegills are a less important fish. There is a new size limit on walleye, why not on bluegills? The FMZ 17 council recommended a quantity limit of 500 and ZERO over 7". This would have been a much better solution to the problem and the majority of the US guests would still keep coming. “Quite frankly, if your business cannot adapt to supporting a healthy fishery maybe you should start targeting other groups to fill your cottages.” A very good point! What would you suggest, I am open to suggestions. BTW, don’t suggest carp anglers from Europe, this has been tried before with negligble results. I am considering promoting walleye; rent a cottage for a week, catch 4 and eat them, catch 4 and eat them, catch 4 and eat them............. What do you think? Roy wrote: “I can think of a hundred ways to make their business opportunities more palatable for them and their guests” Great, I’ll keep checking back for the 100 suggestions. MuskyGreenHorn wrote: “he fishes rice a ton and he lives nearby in elizabethville. She then tried to ask him to come stay and enjoy the resorts and talk about how great the area is. He had to laugh, he said "lady, i am 10 mins from rice lake, why would i stay at a resort." I guess she knows the area really well eh.....” Exactly, locals contribute nothing to tourism on the lake. “How can something they most likely don't even know about stop them from coming, unless the resorts are informing them (which we know the aren't) then how could he vast majority even know about this?” This is not correct, of course any responsible resort will have advised the 2010 guests of the new regulations. This is how we know that there are many cancellations for 2010. Cram wrote “Maybe its me, but i wouldn't drive 3 mins away to catch a sunfish. And some people come in from the US to do it?” A good example of how little locals know about the bluegill fishery on Rice Lake. BTW, 45 years ago it was the MNR strongly encouraging the Rice Lake resorts to attract US bluegill anglers to prevent overpopulation. I have owned my resort for 12 years and in that time I have had TWO Ontario residents stay and catch bluegills. Other resorts would report similar low numbers. Canadians do NOT target bluegills. Rick O’Banion wrote: “The US is in a recession, their dollar has plummeted and most do not have passports.” Strongly agree and you should add the cost of gas to get here as well. These are things that cannot be controlled and are why there are 50% FEWER US anglers coming to Rice Lake over the last 5 years. MNR figures show that the number of bluegills caught between 2004 and 2008 dropped by 340,000 (I guess that this means there are at least 340,000 MORE bluegills in the lake than there would have been if the number of anglers remained constant). Also, the 2008 catch number was the LOWEST in 25 years. As has been said earlier, the quantity is not the problem, there are millions in Rice Lake. CrappiePerchhunter “It really ruffles my feather's when someone who really doesn't have a clue sides with someone ELSE who really doesn't have a clue either”. I know exactly how you feel................. 2 final comments, please don’t make us out to be money grabbing people with no consideration for the health of the lake. I would think it would be obvious that no one has MORE interest in healthy fisheries than those of us with businesses on the lake. ZERO FISH =ZERO BUSINESS. In 2004 Rice Lake issuers sold $307,766 of licences to US anglers, in 2008 this had dropped to $161,726. This $146,040 difference would probably cover the cost of one more Conservation Officer for the area, so we are ALL losing........ My apologies for making this response so long.

I seem to have stirred a hornet’s nest with my earlier posting. Can I correct a couple of errors? MuskyGreenHorn wrote “Did you notice that the MNR set the bluegill limits to 30 for larger specimens. This is to prevent stunting and ensure that teh larger ones are left to breed to ensure larger size stays in the gene pool” I fully agree and we proposed ZERO bluegills over 7", so which will improve the gene pool better, 30 or zero ? For the last 4 years there has been a voluntary “throwback the big ones” programme on Rice Lake. This was starting to have an effect, in the last survey they average size was bigger than the previous survey. The association also mapped out and proposed to set up bluegill spawning sanctuaries to protect the larger bluegills. The MNR must have thought this was a good idea, they agreed to fund it...... Yes, the economies of the northern states, the exchange rate, border issues, cost of gas, passport cards etc have been major contributors to the decline in the number of US anglers, which is why there are many more fish in the lake than there were 5 years ago. And yes Michael, if and when these situations improve, they may start to come back. Michael also wrote “It's always annoying when people use bits and pieces of material/research from over a long period of time to justify their agenda.” I am not sure what is meant by this and would be interested in details.

As a resident on Rice Lake and a member of the local tourist association I want to correct a few errors and expand on some of the comments made above by MuskyGreenHorn and others. Firstly, the impression in the newspaper article that the Rice Lake Tourist Association is against ice fishing is incorrect. The association is NOT against ice fishing and voted FOR it at the Zone 17 Council meetings. Like several other Council members, concerns were expressed for walleye being caught and kept and also the safety issue. Rice Lake has a constant water flow through most of the lake that causes open areas and pressure cracks. The 2 snowmobile clubs that monitor the lake are posting today “Rice Lake may be unsafe at this time” and “Closed”. We can only wait and see over the next couple of years how many need to be rescued in the early and latter parts of the ice fishing season. One of the MNR’s mandates was “to increase fishing opportunities” and Zone 17 stuck out like a sore thumb as the only zone in the entire province without ice fishing (Scugog excepted). We do not disagre with this and some members have already put out huts. Many MNR publications/presentations DO describe bluegills as an “invasive species”, so to say "WOW, that is just plain dumb" is NOT correct. Bluegills first appeared in Rice Lake in the mid-60s and the Department of Lands and Forests (predecessor of the MNR) expressed great concerns that the invasion would negatively impact other species. The biologists at the time strongly urged the Rice Lake resorts to encourage that bluegills be “fished hard”. I guess it is debatable if a species is still “invasive” after 45 years but that is the reason behind the “no limits” that were in place until this year. Ontario anglers typically do not fish for bluegills and this is why the majority of bluegill anglers are from the US. Rice Lake is particularly suitable for bluegills, being shallow, long shore lines and warm. This is why the bluegill population is huge. Rice Lake is also notable in that there are very few public access fishing areas so even if locals did target bluegills, they would not be able to access them without a boat. To write “I mean who needs more than 300 sunfish, 30 Crappie, and 50 perch in a day” is also incorrect. US anglers do not come for a day, they come for 1-2 weeks. The new 300 possession limit is per licence, not per day. To write they “slay panfish and they take boat loads home every season” may have been true 15-20 years ago but is certainly not true now. Non-resident licence sales on Rice Lake are down more than 50% over the last 5 years and the majority of those no longer coming are bluegill fishermen in May and June. The net result of this is that there are even more bluegills in the lake than there were 5 years ago. Many of us actually that live on Rice Lake are very concerned that the bluegill population will again explode to the detriment of other species and will also result in bluegill stunting. We have already seen indications of this in the last 3 years, with bluegills spawning in areas that they have never spawned in before. Dr John Casselman from Queens University has expressed concern that centrarchids (bluegills, bass) will “take over” lakes due to global warming......... Rice Lake creel surveys are typically done every 4 years by the MNR and we have asked them to increase this to annually so that if there are drastic changes, this will be seen sooner rather than later. Our members are as concerned about the whole Rice Lake fishery as anyone else, maybe more so. Finally, check out the following MNR website. This shows the importance that the MNR attaches to bluegills: http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/LetsF...L02_165385.html

Instead of getting a Passport check out the new Passport Card: http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3926.html It is half the cost of a passport and maybe Canadian Border crossings do not yet have the RFID readers................

Check out: www.superclamp.net They are up the road from you in Barrie.

As a resident on Rice Lake, I would like to add some comments to recent postings here. Michael Brown wrote: "The 300 number for sunfish is due to the fact that most anglers fishing for sunfish are from the US. Surveys indicated that the average US angler travelling here was taking home just over 200 sunfish for a weeks fishing so this number will allow those anglers to still enjoy their week of fishing" The problem with this assumption is that it is an average. If one angler has 600 and the next 4 anglers have 100, the average is 200. The problem for tourism is that the 600 guy will not come back (and reaction for US guests in the last week is exactly that, there have been many cancellations for 2010). Bluegills have always been considered an “invasive species” since they first appeared in Rice Lake in the mid-1960's. The biologists in the Dept. of Lands & Forests (the predecessor of the MNR) at the time strongly urged many bluegills to be caught as they were worried that they would “take over the lake”. Local anglers typically do not want to catch and keep bluegills and this is why US anglers were encouraged to come and take as many as possible, especially in May and June. It is obvious to anyone that fishes or lives on Rice Lake that there are far fewer boats out on the lake than there used to be. This is true and MNR creel surveys indicate this decline in the number of sunfish caught. Eight surveys have been done on Rice over the last 30 years. The last 4 surveys show the annual sunfish catch as: 1995----515,464 2000----668,187 2004----836,726 2008----496,218 The non-resident licence sales match this decline as well (50% in 5 years). Sunfish have always been abundant in Rice Lake and the numbers will now increase even more. Assuming a steady annual decline between 2004 and 2008 (85,125 per year) there are now 340,500 MORE fish in the lake than there would have been if the catch numbers had been constant. These fish will also be spawning so the numbers in the lake will continue to increase. Initial feedback from the US in the last week is that the 300 per visit limit will continue the decline in US anglers, so the number of sunfish will increase even more. It is debatable which other species will be “crowded out” and go into decline. Michael mentioned that there are not enough larger males and this very true for Rice Lake, no one argues this point. The Rice Lake Tourist Association, with the MNR's assistance, introduced a voluntary throwback asking that any bluegill bigger than 7" be returned. This programme was started in 2005 and the 2008 survey showed that it was working- the average size was larger, not much but at least going in the right direction. I am still having difficulty understanding why an angler can keep 30 larger fish when the opposite is what is biologically required. This was NOT what the FMZ 17 Council recommended. Why does walleye have a size restriction and not bluegill? One other factor that may come into play is global warming. With the lake warming up earlier and staying warm longer, this fits perfectly the sunfish and bass spawning requirements. This will also be to the detriment of other species such as walleye that prefer cooler water.