pike slayer Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Ok guys here is my situation, since the day i finished high school i've been working construction. I'm a second year general carpenter apprentice and i'm a second year cabinetmaker apprentice. I'll be 22 next and i've been layed off 4times now and have had 5 different jobs. i can never seem to get my foot in the door long enough and always seen to be at the bottom of the barrel and the first on the cutting list. Its getting really discouraging, i had got layed off about 4weeks ago and i can't seem to come up with anything right now. I've been doing a lot of thinking and i've been thinking about going back to school. I live 2 minutes from the sault college and still living at home with the parents so it wouldnt be hard to go back. So the other day I went and got a sault college course book and i started looking through it to see what I would be interested in. The only thing that interests me is the fish and wildlife program. Now the question is lets say i go to school and do the 2 years are their good job possibilities or will i be sitting at home unemployed doing nothing again? How hard would it be to get my foot in the door at lets say the MNR after taking this course? what jobs could i get with it? what process is it to become a CO? is there even any demand for this type of career? and for anyone that has taken the course, how hard is it? i was never the brightest student in high school and did poor in math but i did pass high school. or should i just say forget about it and just tough it out till i find another construction and tough it out till i get my journeymen papers? i say this is the time to take action, just unsure of what i want to do. your thoughts guys! thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 There was a long discussion about this subject not to long ago it may have been Mike the Bass fisher that started it but I am not sure. If it were me I would stick it out in the trades, better financial prospects. Money is not everything but if you want the finer things the trades may offer a better chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigugli Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 If you go into the fish and wildlife program, what are your goals? Are you taking the course for the job security or a love of the outdoors. Jobs, on graduation, are not plentiful in Ontario. As others have pointed out in previous threads, be prepared to relocate out of province. My neice spent 5 years bouncing around the country before landing a placement in Ontario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyb Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I think you will find that the majority of graduates from that program are not working today in that field, myself included (Fleming F&W graduate) You can always do a job search right now in the field and see what is available near you to give you an idea of pay range and job opportunities. In Ontario, this is a career field that won't see an increase in job opportunities. They want to eventually remove all conservation officers and close down mnr field offices and just have a 1-800 # for people to call to report offences...oh wait a second we're already well on our way to that system! I think you will do better financially if you don't throw away the 2 years experience you have already invested in your tradesman career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyb Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I think you will find that the majority of graduates from that program are not working today in that field, myself included (Fleming F&W graduate) You can always do a job search right now in the field and see what is available near you to give you an idea of pay range and job opportunities. In Ontario, this is a career field that won't see an increase in job opportunities. They want to eventually remove all conservation officers and close down mnr field offices and just have a 1-800 # for people to call to report offences...oh wait a second we're already well on our way to that system! I think you will do better financially if you don't throw away the 2 years experience you have already invested in your tradesman career. My $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pike slayer Posted May 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 ya im looking for job security which i dont seem to have much of in construction and well if im gonna do something i wanna do something i like doing cause 22-55+ is quite of few years. so far it sounds like getting in at the mnr is one of those places where its not what you know but who you know or else good luck getting into something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlied Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Same layoffs have happened to me in the last 5 years. I would recommend trying to become a police officer, depending on if you have a criminal record that is. If you can move anywhere then try RCMP. They are gonna be hiring big time. You have to get certification thru ATS testing then you can apply. Plus if you have been laid off, try the second career thru the government. Its what I am doing right now, i am taking Police foundations at a private college. Mine is a 1 year program and you have your diploma. As for your thoughts on not being the best student. Start reading stuff, anything. This will help build your brain and knowledge. Reading does make you smarter! There is no qauranteed job field anymore and I had to make an informative decision and choose to pursue a policing career because there is little to no layoffs and there are many gonna retire in the near future. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 idle hands in the construction biz do not make money ...if there is no one hiring in your area ...then i suggest you get yourself a bin number and GST number and start advertising your craft...before you know it ...you will be hard pressed to find the time to go fishing ... or since you are young ...now is the time to venture out into the country and bring your skills to where they are in demand...no better time but the present to see the country...not only will it be a financial gain but it will make you richer for the experiences you encounter.. If you do go for the MNR the "IN" is to volunteer for everything and anything you possibly can ...as well as maintain great grades Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCTFisher9120 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) I can't tell you about how many jobs are in that field but there are jobs if you are willing to move around and work your but off for a number of years. As Twocoda said, get yourself out and do some "networking"...do things like volunteering. I got into the F&W program for next year and I have done lot's and going to be doing more volunteer work with CLOCA (Central Lake Ontario Conservation Authority) making friends with some of the Conservation Biologists and a few others that work in high places with CLOCA has been key in both seeking out valuable info and getting my name passed around. It takes work in this field and you have to be determined and willing to do it. My game plan is to take the F&W course, try to get into the summer jobs with CLOCA assisting conservationists, volunteering at different conservation areas when ever possible...then going to try out for the Natural Resources-Law Enforcement 1yr course after that. So I'm looking at 4 years of college + lot's of work inbetween, seems to be easy typing about it but i know it's going to be a lot harder. Good luck with your decision and here's that link to the thread I started awhile back: http://www.ofncommunity.com/forums/index.p...27275&st=30 There was a great story by lhousesoccer on the top of page 3...great to read, gave me some inspiration Edited May 13, 2009 by Mike The Bass Fisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Stick with the trades. As the Gov. money gets deployed in infer structure there will be more long term jobs and lots of Biz. ownership possibility. Garnet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattones Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I have been a carpenter for 5 years now. Didnt bother going to school for it as i got the job through Co-op in high school. We work for the biggest sub contractor in Ontario. And We havent had a slow day/week since i started with them. the big boss told us we will be the last crew to go. I'm having to switch to Landscaping when we are not working. Times are gettng rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmeh Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I am in the environmental field and one thing I will tell you is that getting in with the MNR or any other government agency almost always means contract work to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikeie Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) i currently have finished my 1st year at sault college in the fish and wildlife conservation technician... I am so glad i took this course! sure there are a few things i dont like about it, 2 math classes, 2 english classes and Natural reasorces career managment. but every other class is amazing. here is a rundown of the classes for the first year. 1st semester Trees and shrubs identification introduction to fish and wildlife outdoor navagation math english science and nature first year fall field camp 2nd semester outdoor equipment cert. math english ecology ornithology trees and hebacious plants (dendrology) Natural reasource career managment software for fish and wildlife spring field exercises CO/OP it is a great program, the jobs are readily available... i got a job working at totem resorts as a guide/ dockhand for the summer... i leave on friday!! also it looks as if i got a job as a D CO (deputy conservation officer) for next summer out in kelowna B.C. as it was stated before... in this industry its not always what you know its who you know... Edited May 14, 2009 by pikeie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnAB Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I am in Alberta and can tell you out here becoming a Fish and Wildlife officer is tough to do as there are a lot of grads and not many jobs. Most work seasonal for minor pay for 3 or 4 years before they get a full time posting. Starting salary for a Fish and Wlidlfe officer here be in the $45000 and then max out at $66000 or so unless you get out of the field and into a more specialized role with them. Plus the new recruits tend to get the less desirable postings but some do luck out and get into decent locales from the get go. Be tough to go to Fort McMurray on a $45000 per year salary even with your extra $12000 per year northern allowance when housing in Fort McMurray starts at $400000 for an older house or rent starts at $2500/month and that is if you can even find anything. I am a forester here, same department, different division and we seem to hire a lot of forest officers who take a 2 year forestry diploma course. I have worked with a few guys from Sir Sanford Fleming college and others from Ontario. Salaries are the same for forest officers versus fish and wildlife officers here but way more room for faster advancement in the forest officer series. In our area there are around 9 Fish and Wildlife officers and 40 or more forest officers. Just posted this to give you a flavour of the field out here as well. PS. difference bewteen a forester and forest officer here is a forester has a university degree and hence makes better money but the forest officers are in the field more. Forest officer can get classified into the forester pay group once they get into the higher end forest officer jobs but that takes awhile to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LebowSKI Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I'm a first year graduate of the course at Fleming and I'm very glad I decided to go with my passion. I've learned more than I could've ever hoped for, and things all relevant to my interests. A walk in the woods after a year in Fish and Wildlife isn't quite the same I'll say, haha...especially in the winter. Despite what you hear, there are jobs out there. I'd say 80 % of the jobs are outside Southern Ontario...or even Ontario for that matter, which may not be for some. I on the other hand am just 20 years old, haven't done much traveling and am completely ready for a little adventure! In fact I'm leaving tomorrow morning for my new job as a guide/dockhand at Dogskin Lake Lodge in Manitoba. Basically a dream job! That right there makes the course worthwhile already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerritt Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Stick with the trades.. as becoming a CO is alot like winning the lottery... Things are tough in the market... those with money are sitting on it. I too bounced around.. still am!... but life is too short to be stuck at a company that does not make you happy! You have one really good thing going for you... Your age! Tough it out... things will improve.. Get your ticket, it is some you can ALWAYS rely on down the road should you need it... G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerritt Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Stick with the trades.. as becoming a CO is alot like winning the lottery... Things are tough in the market... those with money are sitting on it. I too bounced around.. still am!... but life is too short to be stuck at a company that does not make you happy! You have one really good thing going for you... Your age! Tough it out... things will improve.. Get your ticket, it is some you can ALWAYS rely on down the road should you need it... G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pike slayer Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 k guys, way to crush my hopes and dreams haha! its all good, this is why i asked. to bad the mnr doesnt get more funding and get more ppl out in the field, we really need it. i guess i'll keep looking for a job banging nails. thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I don't know much about the Sault College course and whether or not it has an enforcement, biology or restoration focus but if you aren't set on becoming a CO, there are numerous other careers to choose from. Check MNR for stewardship or biology positions, or Environment Canada, Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Conservation Authorities or non-government organizations for other additional opportunities. Good luck in whatever you choose. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anders Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I graduated in from that course in 04, and i am not working in the field right now. The jobs in that field are few and far between, and the ones that do show up are taking by the group of people that have a degree, or diploma plus a degree. Looking back on it now, i would not have taken that course, i would have went into the trades, and left the Natural resources to by my hobby, which it is today. If you are thinking of continueing on to university by all means go to college first. I would though if i were you living in the Sault, look at LSSU. They have a fisheries and Wildlife managment degree, you might be interested in that. I started off there, but moved to college, well...because...drinking was more important at the time. Look into other options, dont settle for that program...dont be afraid to look across the river. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I'm a first year graduate of the course at Fleming and I'm very glad I decided to go with my passion. I've learned more than I could've ever hoped for, and things all relevant to my interests. A walk in the woods after a year in Fish and Wildlife isn't quite the same I'll say, haha...especially in the winter. Despite what you hear, there are jobs out there. I'd say 80 % of the jobs are outside Southern Ontario...or even Ontario for that matter, which may not be for some. I on the other hand am just 20 years old, haven't done much traveling and am completely ready for a little adventure! In fact I'm leaving tomorrow morning for my new job as a guide/dockhand at Dogskin Lake Lodge in Manitoba. Basically a dream job! That right there makes the course worthwhile already. Not many people making a living being a dockhand/guide. It's nice to dream, but it doesn't put food on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikeie Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 No there isnt but like i said before it is a job that is in that field... everyone starts somewhere. And give us a break its a summer job... the program requires a co-op over the first summer. I say have a great time working in Manitoba, catch some great fish and get some great pictures!!... Because i know i will.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 If you like construction, stick with it. The Sault is a bit slow right now, but as soon as this economy thing is over, there will be lots of work. Try to get in the carpenters union. Learn the fine trim work and cabinet making as well. There are mostly old guys in construction right now. There is about to be (actually there is now) a shortage of skilled tradesmen. If you like the work, stick with it. If you don't like it, find another field. You will be doing this for the next 30 years, you may as well like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctdd2006 Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 lots of construction work a little east of you in Elliot Lake and the fishing ain't too bad either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pike slayer Posted May 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 I've tried and tried to get into the union but its like trying to get blood from a stone. they basically told me that when i get my ticket i'd get hired like instantly. i know a few ppl working for them and they said they got apprentice resumes staked to the roof and if you know pinder real well then you can get in. and all i have been doing is trim work and cabients, i try to stick away from the whole framing and concrete work. i seen job posting on the job bank for elliot lake and it just wouldnt be worth it for me. im still at home and i wouldnt make enough to get by in elliot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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