bye bye cormorant

[cram]

Dr Salvelinus....here you go - a (recent) peer reviewed published article pointing to a very strong correlation between cormorant population growth and the crash of a native fish population.

 

 

http://www.iaglr.org/jglr/db/view_contents...=34&issue=3

[hotrod]

How "inconvenient" of you to post that cram.

[Michael_Brown]

"Loons and cormorants are completely different. I assume you havent seen a thriving cormorant community."

 

The loons comment was a joke but I hear they taste a bit like bald eagle.

I have seen lots of cormorant islands and yes they are not beautiful.

 

We should stop the bailout of GM and use the money to have all the laid-off workers trained to destroy the cormorants and then we could use the dead cormorants to feed the poor. Also we could issue tags to hunters who want to blast a few (could replace going to the driving range in spring). With all the saved cash we could reduce the need for the new HST tax, the unemployed will be busy killing birds and the poor will be well feed.

 

Problem solved, let's go fish.

[cram]

"Loons and cormorants are completely different. I assume you havent seen a thriving cormorant community."

 

The loons comment was a joke but I hear they taste a bit like bald eagle.

I have seen lots of cormorant islands and yes they are not beautiful.

 

We should stop the bailout of GM and use the money to have all the laid-off workers trained to destroy the cormorants and then we could use the dead cormorants to feed the poor. Also we could issue tags to hunters who want to blast a few (could replace going to the driving range in spring). With all the saved cash we could reduce the need for the new HST tax, the unemployed will be busy killing birds and the poor will be well feed.

 

Problem solved, let's go fish.

 

All great ideas :-)

[Northhunter]

Everyone keeps mentioning reports/studies or lack thereof. I was working for a short while in an MNR fish lab about the time the MNR's first report came out (about 2006?). It was at the end of a 5-year study and their conclusion was basically what everyone already knew - that the exploding populations are detrimental to fish stocks. The senior fish tech I was working under basically said something to the effect of "Now watch and see what kind of crap hits the fan". They had the study and all kinds of data to back up bringing in place some sort of population control, but there was too much politics involved with all the special interest groups and tree huggers, etc. (not unlike the bear hunt). So the MNR copped out and went ahead with another 5-year study. At the time I believe they said it was to then monitor whether or not the populations would come down on their own. I'm not sure what became of it.. dust in the wind?

 

Yes, they will eat smelts, alewife, etc. They are also a major problem on inland lakes where those species don't exist. Then they hit the yellow perch. Yellow perch are not really a prized sportfish, but they are what prized sportfish eat (walleye especially). You do the math.

 

And, yes. They are native. But in about 100 years of species monitoring in Algonquin they were never present until this recent explosion (something to consider). There are now islands on lakes in the park that have met the same demise as people here are describing now.

 

Dr. Salvelinus - wikipedia, Really?

Edited April 16, 2009 by Northhunter

[irishfield]

Unless someone has a good recipe for them we'd better get use to them until their population levels off.

 

Cormorant Recipe

 

Having shot your cormorant, hold it well away from you as you carry it home; these birds are exceedingly verminous and the lice are said to be not entirely host-specific. Hang up by the feet with a piece of wire, soak in petrol and set on fire. This treatment both removes most of the feathers and kills the lice.

 

When the smoke has cleared away, take the cormorant down and cut off the beak. Send this to the local Conservancy Board who, if you are in the right area, will give you 3/6d or sometimes 5/- for it. Bury the carcase, preferably in a light sandy soil, and leave it there for a fortnight. This is said to improve the flavour by removing, in part at least, the taste of rotting fish.

 

Dig up and skin and draw the bird. Place in a strong salt and water solution and soak for 48 hours. Remove, dry, stuff with whole, unpeeled onions: the onion skins are supposed to bleach the meat to a small extent, so that it is very dark brown instead of being entirely black.

 

Simmer gently in seawater, to which two tablespoons of chloride of lime have been added, for six hours. This has a further tenderising effect. Take out of the water and allow to dry, meanwhile mixing up a stiff paste of methylated spirit and curry powder. Spread this mixture liberally over the breast of the bird.

 

Finally roast in a very hot oven for three hours. The result is unbelievable. Throw it away. Not even a starving vulture would eat it.

Edited April 16, 2009 by irishfield

[Terry]

yum......LOL

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

How "inconvenient" of you to post that cram.

 

 

It's not inconvenient at all! It's the type of argument that I will read, respect, digest, and may slowly change mine or others opinions.

Also, just because one of the species is "economically" or "recreationally" more important to humans, it doesn't mean that we should be attempting to play God with ecosystem management.

 

 

It's posts like irishfields that baffle my mind and make it tough to understand how people who supposedly respect and love nature can be so disrespectful when nature conflicts with personal interests.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Dr. Salvelinus

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

.

 

Dr. Salvelinus - wikipedia, Really?

 

This isn't a term paper!

[irishfield]

It's posts like irishfields that baffle my mind and make it tough to understand how people who supposedly respect and love nature can be so disrespectful when nature conflicts with personal interests.

 

 

Say what.... he asked for a recipe.. I gave him one... that's been around since 1965 by the way. The Cormorant Recipe comes from a bygone era: Countryman’s Cooking, by W.M.W Fowler circa 1965.

Edited April 17, 2009 by irishfield

[e-z-out]

Warning:

Cormorants impose a health hazard !!!

Do not eat Cormorants too often because of possible high PCB contamination !!!

 

 

Cormorant Breasts with Lentils

Ingredients (for 2-3 persons): Breasts of one Cormorant, 1 large carrot (cut into pieces), 1 piece of celeriac (from the roots, not the greens - cut into little pieces of 8 mm), 300 g lentils, 2 onions, 200 g smoked bacon, 6 table spoons of vinegar, 4 cups of chicken broth, 2 cups of the marinade, 3 – 4 little red chilies (or freshly grounded pepper), salt, ½ bunch of fresh thyme, goose lard

 

Marinades (it looks as if you will need 2 marinades one to marinade the breasts and one for cooking the meal):

each ½ liter of a dry white wine, 4 table spoons of olive oil, 1 onion, 1 carrot, ½ bunch of lemon thyme, parsley, 1 by leaf red pepper.

 

Preparation method: Cut the breasts out of the bird, cut away all body fat. Marinade: Cut all vegetables for the marinade into pieces and boil it shortly with all other marinade ingredients. Let the marinade cool down, pour it over the Cormorant breasts and marinade the breasts for 48 hours. Then, dry the breasts, cut them into pieces, and brown them in a pan with some goose lard (fat). Add one cup of marinade and cook (stew) the breasts for 2 ½ hours until the meat is almost tender. Add some of the chicken broth every once in a while. In the meantime cut the bacon into strips, cut the onions and brown both with some goose lard (fat) in a (roast) pot. Add the carrots, the celeriac, the chilies and the (washed) lentils. Heat it. Then add vinegar, the marinade and the chicken soup. Now salt the breasts and give them onto the bacon and the vegetables. Add the thyme and cook the meal to perfection. Serve salt potatoes with it. Serve Riesling wine with it.

 

Scottish Cormorant Pot/Stew

Ingredients (for 6 persons): Breasts of two cormorants, 300 g smoked bacon, 2 onions, 1 green celeriac, 6 grounded juniper berries, salt, freshly grounded pepper, 2 cups of chicken broth, 2 cups of the marinade, whipped cream, 1 shot of whisky (Scotch), goose lard, 150 g barley (pre-boiled ?), ½ bunch of parsley, ½ bunch of fresh marjoram

 

Marinades (it looks as if you will need 2 marinades one to marinade the breasts and one for cooking the meal):

each ½ liter of red wine, 4 table spoons of olive oil, 1 onion, 1 carrot, each ½ bunch of fresh marjoram, some pepper corns (berries), 1 piece of garlic

 

Preparation method:

Cut the breasts out of the birds, cut away all body fat. Marinade: Cut all vegetables for the marinade into pieces and boil it shortly with all other marinade ingredients.Let the marinade cool down, pour it over the Cormorant breasts and marinade the breasts for 48 hours. Then cut the bacon into strips and brown it with some goose lard (fat) in a (roast) pot. Put it on a paper towel and let some of fat drip off. Put it aside. Cut the breasts into peaces and brown in the same fat (pot). Cut the onion and the celeriac into pieces and add it into the pot with the parsley and the marjoram (do not cut the parsley and the marjoram). Season it with salt pepper and the juniper berries. Heat it. Now, add the marinade and the chicken broth, and stew the meal for 2 ½ to 3 hours until the meat is almost tender. Wash the barley and add it, now. Cook the meal to perfection. Add some of the chicken broth every once in a while. Take away the parsley and the marjoram (remember that you should not have cut them!!!). Finally, add the bacon and some whipped cream and the Scotch whisky (to make it a Scottish dish !!!). Serve it with potato croquettes and green beans. Serve it with red wine (Burgundy).

 

Cormorant in Cream Sauce

Ingredients: 1 cormorant, salt & white pepper, allspice, 2 onoins, 2 carrots, a piece of celeriac, 1 tarty apple, 3 dl cream, 5 dl clear broth, 1 bay leaf.

Preparation method: Flay and divide the cormorant. Salt, pepper and brown in pan. Simmer 1,5 - 2 hours together with carrots, celeriac, apple, allspice, bay leaf and clear broth. Strain, thicken broth and add cream. Serve with boiled potatoes, green peas, carrots and lingonberry jam. The perfect compliment: Egi Bikavér, 1993. (A rich, full, slightly tarty wine with a touch of liqourice).

 

 

Here are just a few ways to eat that damn bird but dont forget the Warning i posted good luck guys

[Headhunter]

Wayne, you forgot the garlic!

For anyone in the GTA, who's not seen the devastation these birds have created, just take yourself and or you family for a nice walk on the Leslie Spit nature trail... you will notice as you get toward the end of the spit, there is a section of the Spit that looks like it was ripped from the moon and dropped onto the inner harbour of Toronto.

These birds can be seen all along the shores of Lake O and there is a constant stream of them flying back and forth from feeding grounds to their nests. The conservation authority is having a very difficult time deciding what course of action to take... leave them alone and let them destroy the whole spit, or cull them and have all the bleeding heart "naturalists" climbing up and down their back.

HH

[BillM]

I wonder if DDT will kill these things off?

[TennesseeGuy]

"It's posts like irishfields that baffle my mind and make it tough to understand how people who supposedly respect and love nature can be so disrespectful when nature conflicts with personal interests."

 

 

Ask Mr. Irishfield about his recipe for guys who piss him off with their lack of sense of humour.

Sp??? humor

[cram]

It's not inconvenient at all! It's the type of argument that I will read, respect, digest, and may slowly change mine or others opinions.

Also, just because one of the species is "economically" or "recreationally" more important to humans, it doesn't mean that we should be attempting to play God with ecosystem management.

 

 

It's posts like irishfields that baffle my mind and make it tough to understand how people who supposedly respect and love nature can be so disrespectful when nature conflicts with personal interests.

 

You miss the point -- we played god with ecosystem management by killing these things off and removing them from the ecosystem for decades and now letting them back to flourish.

 

Besides, the very phrase "ecosystem management" which is the field i assume you work in infers playing god. Why would managing the cormorant population any less "godlike" than managing deer or fish stocks?

 

Further, while i respect the academic/scientific process it is VERY slow and in a case like this i think you'll find the outcome will be the same but it will be too late. Eventually you guys will slowly and deliberately conclude that YES, there is a negative impact and they need to be culled.....by then they will be MUCH harder to manage than they are now.

[bigfish1965]

It's not inconvenient at all! It's the type of argument that I will read, respect, digest, and may slowly change mine or others opinions.

Also, just because one of the species is "economically" or "recreationally" more important to humans, it doesn't mean that we should be attempting to play God with ecosystem management.

 

 

It's posts like irishfields that baffle my mind and make it tough to understand how people who supposedly respect and love nature can be so disrespectful when nature conflicts with personal interests.

 

Well, Dr... you know as much as anyone what a population absent of predators does. It grows until the food source is exhausted. Then it expands its range, and does the same thing over and over. This happens until all food sources are gone and eventually disease kills them off. By then some of the previously exhausted food sources come back...some will not.

The cormorant is a upper-level predator with an unusually high reproduction rate.

The risks in ecological terms of inaction are too great. Down here we don't have many cormorants primarily because of human shoreline incursion. But we have deer..lots of them. And we are their only predator so it falls upon us to try and maintain numbers that do not risk the population of other species whether that be plant or animal.

This is no different. Where we have displaced or extirpated predators, it is sound practice to take over that role.

The invasive zebra mussel has been the catalyst to all of this by reducing, or in some places eliminating water turbidity.

[majorlifts]

I will have to agree with the Dr. By the way,Humans do more damage to our ecosystem than any other creature on earth, so should we start doing the honorable thing for the ecosystem and start sending people to the annihilation chambers in order to save the planet??...........Hmmm seems we had a guy try that in the 30`s, didnt turn out so well for him, and no argument here will ever solve the planets doom due to humanity, forget your Ivy league problem solving Ideas, and save them for the people who have never stepped out of a concrete building to see the forest beyond the trees.

 

Just for info sake, the Leslie Spit is all a man made human dump. I take my boat down and all you see are Islands filled with concrete and bricks from old buildings, so all that Bird Guano grosses me out, but so does the garbage. The birds need a place to live, we destroy land to build and live and this has massive impact on our inviro. Ask the Algonquin tribe of natives that have been fighting a uranium mining company that has plans to destroy thousands of hectares of land for profits. This topic has wore itself out and is already a dead horse.

[hotrod]

The problem dude is the people who aren't in concrete buildings all day see the devastation and damage first hand, and it's all over the province not just the leslie spit. Most people on this site have witnessed their overpopulated numbers first hand. As for the argument that man should stay out of it and just let things progress naturally then let's look at the flip side of the coin. Does that mean man shouldn't play god by creating fish in hatcheries for stocking? or how about the wild turkey program? isn't that playing god also?

 

Man has destroyed the natural ecosystem like it or not and it is up to us to try and manage it, and right now the cormorant population needs culled and it doesn't take a university education to see that.

[irishfield]

.... baffle my mind and make it tough to understand how people who supposedly respect and love nature can be so disrespectful when nature conflicts with personal interests

 

Hope your kids never get lice. The poor things... when you respect this confict of nature and let their personal interests contend with it.

[Michael_Brown]

Easy now people stick to the topic of cormorants.

 

Just because somebody disagrees with a cormorant cull doesn't mean they are bleeding heart tree huggers or if they agree they are god-playing butchers.

 

Are cormorants a problem or are they a result of a problem?

 

Just an idea, but maybe we should cull the zebra mussels that are clearing the water, giving cormorants an advantage to exploit their food source. Sounds a little tougher as they make small targets but after seeing some of the almost tasty recipes posted on here, anything is possible.

 

Personally I feel shooting them is a bandaid solution, not addressing the root problem. They survived here for 100 years without a population explosion, something kept them supressed. Maybe that is what we should try to solve.

[hotrod]

The thing that kept them suppressed before was people shooting them and DDT. Then they were made into a protected species so they couldn't be shot and there is no more DDT in this country. As was mentioned before, there are too many people on this planet and we have far too great an impact on our environment to leave it up nature to sort things through. I know gobies eat zebra mussells but I don't think they're the answer.

 

http://www.sgnis.org/publicat/djuricic.htm

[Headhunter]

Dude, I have seen early maps of Toronto and am fully aware of the Leslie Spit's history. I assume you haven't walked the Spit as you would be aware of all the work being done to make it come to life.

Having lived nearby for many years I have watched the Cormorant slowly destroy it, section by section, year by year.

HH

[lew]

35 years ago I used to drive a big tandem dump truck on my days off and I dumped many many loads of dirt, bricks & concrete in the construction of the Leslie St Spit.

 

Sure hope nobody blames my in anyway for the onslought of the cormorants

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

Besides, the very phrase "ecosystem management" which is the field i assume you work in infers playing god. Why would managing the cormorant population any less "godlike" than managing deer or fish stocks?

 

 

Are you SERIOUSLY trying to compare killing cormorants to fish management programs which aim to PREVENT overfishing?

 

I do work in "ecosystem management" and some would say I play god. That said, I work with INVASIVE species, not native ones.

[majorlifts]

Headhunter, one word, WRONG. I have slept at the Leslie spit, I got married at the Leslie spit, I lost my virginity at the Leslie spit, I have fished Pike there for the last 12 years, and others will agree there is only one lagoon/bay where those birds have done damage and its been the same for the last 12 yrs I been goin there. So, it aint as bad everyone here has made out.

 

BTW, just kidding bout losing my virginity still got it.