Dutch Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Article that ran in my local paper I'd like to share. By no means am I slagging GM employees by posting this, more the sad state the executives have let that company become. The writer seems to try and pin this on the employees, but I thought the facts laid out in the article were the most telling points, even if the author seems somewhat biased, it's the facts that ring home. GM is in a sad state and I don't think taxpayer dollars should go to support mis-managed industries..... ====================== Deal by GM, union fails to impress Posted By GREG WESTON Posted 6 hours ago Judging by all the breathless media coverage of the "historic" deal between General Motors and its Canadian union, one would think the autoworkers agreed to sacrifice their left lugnut for company and country. Alas, objects in this mirror are much smaller than they appear. The federal and Ontario governments have been demanding the unions take a tire-iron to their gold-plated employment contracts before GM gets a dime from taxpayers. With upwards of $7 billion in government loans on the table, GM and its workers have oh-so-reluctantly agreed to a deal, which union president Ken Lewenza describes as "a major sacrifice by our members and retirees." Here are some of those heart-wrenching sacrifices, with a warning that what follows may cause ordinary hard-working taxpayers to experience fits of dizziness and nausea. * The deal freezes base wages until mid-2012. In fact, it changes almost nothing -- last year, the union agreed to a pay freeze until mid-2011. * Quarterly cost-of-living increases are suspended until 2012. Those pay hikes had already been suspended until mid-2010, and with inflation near zero, the increases wouldn't have amounted to much anyway. * Ditto for annual cost-of-living increases to pensions until 2012. Increased pensions had already been nixed for a year, and with low or no inflation, GM pensioners will barely notice them missing for another three years. It is worth noting that unionized GM employees do not contribute a dime to their pensions during their working lives. We would also note that at a time when the car companies are asking for billions, the GM pension fund is short, um, billions. * Spa time is reduced by 40 hours per year. Before your head explodes, "spa" stands for "special paid absence," an extra week of paid time off that all GM unionized workers get in addition to their annual vacations. A union exec explains spa weeks were originally negotiated in part to force GM to hire more workers to replace the ones on spa weeks. This also helps to explain why the company is now broke. * "An annual $1,700 special bonus payment is being diverted to help offset the cost of retiree health care benefits." Translation: Unionized autoworkers are giving up their $1,700 Christmas bonuses so their retired brethren will each get an extra roughly $250 a year to cover new health premiums (see below). The net benefit to GM -- and taxpayers -- is precisely zero. * GM is cutting its contribution to a whole range of employee perks by a third. Those include subsidized daycare and even legal services for union workers buying a house or getting divorced. * Finally, unionized auto workers will have to pay a staggering $30 a month each for their health and other benefits; retirees $15. Truth is, all those years of huddling around the flaming oil drums on the picket lines have left the auto workers with the sweetheart of all benefit packages covering health, dental, disability and even tuition. Until now, the employee contribution to the premiums has been exactly zip. Add it all up, and the "major sacrifices" being made by the autoworkers for billions of taxpayers' dollars are as follows: Their pay and pensions stay the same. They lose a spa week, and give their Christmas bonus to the oldtimers. They have to pay a bit more for daycare and a divorce, and $30 a month for a benefits package to strike for. Hold the hankies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walleyejigger Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 better than nothing,their "sweetheart package" i'm sure is something we all wish we had and would fight not to lose it, someone sounds bitter and lookin for a witch hunt(his name starts with G and ends with reg) looks like i got an opinion in on this one BEFORE it gets locked down. And it'll be my last, so rip me all u want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbog Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 It's already been said that working for FREE wouldn't fix the problems facing GM. 'nuff said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Looks like Union and Management killed the Golden Goose and they are now fighting over the carcass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbouck Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I give this one 20 hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 To me it`s like a giant never ending comedy show and for almost the last 50 years here in the states labor has been the target. They get the vast majority of the bad press possibly because management gets to do the talking? A negotiated labor contract, union v. management funy how management doesn`t have to go before the union, stock holders before they LOL negotiate their salaries, golden parachutes? Just before a company board of fellow back slappers, you wash my back, I`ll wash your? At some point in time union workers involved in the contract negotiations gave up some contract demands to get others, if you look at the CEO`s pay it appears they never gave up any thing, good times or bad. Working people no longer stand together, their memories are to short. Take a look at other businesses affected by auto industry jobs losses, retail, real estate, food, grocery and others, even government. None had a problem gravy training off of money these workers brought to their countries, provinces,states and cities. Now though they don`t want to support them, to much pain on their part, past gain doesn`t seem to count for anything. I don`t care for the bail outs, where it`s the banking industry, insurance industry, or auto industry, but it is my opinion it all could have been prevented if the jobs were kept at home and not sold to the lowest paid worker, notice none of the management got that deal? Even here in the LOL United States you had a bidding war between the states for the foreign auto company plants, and who lost? The worker with lower paying jobs and less benefits, but no problems creating new taxes on the workers to offset the tax break given to companies to build in their states and cities. We are losing 600+ thousand jobs a month here stateside, where will it end? Do the politicians even care? The mess they created with their bright ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbog Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I give this one 20 hours! Is this the amount of time GM should be able to survive on their own merit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 ... too little, too late! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 How about the union they are great they give up a lousy 150 million or so for a company that is bleeding 6-9 BILLION a quarter. I heard on the radio the other day that GM pays 1 BILLION a year in Viagra perscriptions. Throwing money at a bad business model will not solve anything. What they should do is let GM fall into chapter 11 and let the government restructure the business, the billions would be better used that way. The new company would have no union and no legacy cost sorta like Honda and Toyota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfish Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I may not speak many words,but there r that nuderstand them. This crap about no pay raise for ,what 5 yrs?????????????????????????? What a load of bull crap. Read yer local paper and see the ads.That speacks VOLUMES MY FRIENDS. Take yer 5 yr no pay raise and stuff it. , , , , , , , , , , , , ,, what a friggn joke GM has become.and yes thier employees have become.................................. , , , , , , , , , ,, HAS THE UNION, BRAIN WASHED YOU ALL THAT MUCH???????????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerritt Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) Brian.... Tell us how you really feel brod'er G... But yes... it is time people get paid what they deserve for the function they perform... call it employment correction vs. market correction.. G Edited March 12, 2009 by Gerritt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jediangler Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Again I have to take my hat off to FORD for not trying to weasel themselves some taxpayers cash. I think they will be the only North American car company left next year. I've slagged FORD in the past, the only car I ever owned that needed it's motor & transmission replaced was a FORD, but they are way ahead in the restructuring game. Who would buy a Chrysler or GM now knowing your warranty will outlast the company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt bruce Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) "I heard on the radio the other day that GM pays 1 BILLION a year in Viagra perscriptions." ???????? Damn this winter has got to end , we all need to get out more . I heard from a guy who knows this guy heard it from his sisters friends cousin that "pigs can fly " it has to true .. Edited March 12, 2009 by capt bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebco Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Thread is funny, only ppl that would stick up for Gm now are the ones still gettin a cheque from em. They really screwed alot of good people and get what they deserve. Greed got em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfish Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 heard from a guy who knows this guy heard it from his sisters friends cousin that "pigs can fly " it has to true .. It must, cause I heard the same thing from a friend that was told by his 2 friends.LOL Yes winter has ben long,and so has this GM bail out. My point I was trying to get out about the whole, GM/Union was,they wont ask for pay raises right,but the question for me is,how will they drop the prices of thier cars/trucks,if thier still paying these outrages wages. Now I see Crysler is threating our Goverment.Ya know what,CLOSE UP,go south,what ever.You all got yerselves into this mess. On a side note,we were asked today if we would all be willing to do the work share.This is make us succesful in the end.99% said yes.So our company has applied.Thats how you keep your job.Give alittle and be thankful for what you got. Eoungh said by me.Zip,n it up.LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuck Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 GM has dropped the ball, they built inferior vehicles with problems that should have been corrected but they continued cranking out cars with stupid expensive problems (the intake manifold gaskets on the 3.4 and 3.8 that led to engine failure-inexcusable, this went on for years, head gasket failures on the Sunfire and Cavaliers- 2 of their most popular models, the list goes on and on....) I myself have been lucky, I'm a GM guy but my loyalty is coming to an end. A car is too big an expense initially to have a lot of ongoing expenses because of ticking timebombs in the car that should be corrected. I understand problems with a car the first model year to a certain extent but for those problems to persist for years without correction is INTOLERABLE!!! I'm venting and have a purple face right now, they should be allowed to go Chapter 11 and restructure and hopefully they will emerge a stronger and hopefully a SMARTER company. My heart goes out to the retirees but the company cannot go on the way it is and they will have to get their pensions and health benefits slashed for the company to be able to go on, otherwise, everyone will lose everything. The taxpayers should not be on the hook for corporate mismanagement and ineptitude. Can those that should be canned and don't give them golden parachutes, they can be like everyone else and have a chunk of lead strapped to their a......ss before they make them jump out of the plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Now I see Crysler is threating our Goverment.Ya know what,CLOSE UP,go south,what ever.You all got yerselves into this mess. Amen! That made my blood boil when I watched the news last night. Cripes... How ridiculous is that? They are about to fold, and they have the audacity to "demand" a 2.3 billion dollar bailout in Fedaral aid and are demanding we wipe out a $500-million lien on Chrysler's Brampton plant in public Tax dollars or they are leaving Canada? Wow... Go ahead...close your meare 2 plants (Windsor and Brampton), close your 200 dealerships, and the one parts plant you own. Go ahead and lay off the 6000 employees then pay them out their severance and be on your way.... We'll just take Thats 2.3 billion dollar bail out, and the 500 million dollar lein and divide it by the 6000 unemployed workers and give $466,666.67 to each one...that would not only make the employees dam happy, but most of that money would make its way back into the economy, and buy a CRAP LOAD of time to get these employees re-trained to do somthing else. Sure that will never happen, but it sure puts the "demands" into perspective Doesn't it? They want wage consessions of $20/hour from each employee, and aid/releif of $2,800,000,000 And with out this gross amount they say they cannot compete in the market.... Heck I bet could compete in the market with that kind of money and I don't even own a factory LOL!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch312 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 see ya later suckers, dont let the door hit ya on the way out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holdfast Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Again I have to take my hat off to FORD for not trying to weasel themselves some taxpayers cash. I think they will be the only North American car company left next year. I've slagged FORD in the past, the only car I ever owned that needed it's motor & transmission replaced was a FORD, but they are way ahead in the restructuring game. Who would buy a Chrysler or GM now knowing your warranty will outlast the company? I heard a good one from Ford. Don't give Bailout , how about the Government giving a $3,500 incentive to scrap your car and buy a new car. OH yea, you the Tax payer will pay me $3,500 for my next car which will probably be a Toyota anyways. After the Greed takes over, ( a cut to the company, the dealer and seller, and the government again) me the Buyer will probably save 50 dollars. As far as GM threatening, lets have another Election because I think this Stimulus Package is the most insane Idea that the Coalition forced our elected Government with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfish Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Re read the $3,500 deal HF. What Ford has proposed,is way less cash for the goverment to bail out GM and Crysler. You say Toyota???????????????? Made in Cambridge, Ontario Canada my friend.In Canada, and what the goverment has NO,needs, to make sure of is this.KEEP THE MONEY IN CANANDA. Sorry, my fly slipped open. OH, and it was Crysler threating, not GM. GM tried it and thats why they are back peddeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbouck Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Is this the amount of time GM should be able to survive on their own merit? Nope. That was an estimate of how long it would take for this one to get locked. Guess I was wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfish Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Nope. That was an estimate of how long it would take for this one to get locked. Guess I was wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAzing Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 I've been one to warren that the unions will ruin it for everyone else. Is it just me but isn't it kind of od that they are willing to take a pay cut to $130 000 a year vs. $145 000. Are you kidding me? I thought Doctors and lawyers were the ones making that kind of $$$ and they went to scholl for many years to earn that kind of money. I read an article that in Ottawa they had bus drivers and mechanics making over $100 000 a year amongs hundreads of city employees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where did I go wrong? I grew up been told go to school and get a higher education to get a better job, you will get no where with just a high school degree. Well crap I should of joined a union for sure instead of a higher education. I thought $30/hr was a good paying job and the max that bus drivers and manufacture workers got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Crysler employees get on average $70/hour (incuding benefit cost) So I'd gather they get about $40/hour with a pretty kick butt benefits package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crappieperchhunter Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 On a side note,we were asked today if we would all be willing to do the work share.This is make us succesful in the end.99% said yes.So our company has applied.Thats how you keep your job.Give alittle and be thankful for what you got. Our company was one of the first ones to do this in the early eighties. It was Heaven. Get a 3 day long weekend every weekend and work 4 days. And after taxes etc, etc all you lost was peanuts. Don't know why more companies don't consider it. Keeps your workforce intact and everybody wins. The employees and the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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