Nortel

[hammercarp]

I saw this on the news a couple of nights ago. Now hear this , Nortel paid it's top people this year 45 million in bonuses. That's right Nortel the company that is worth nothing and on whom so many lost a lot of money. Aint the corporate world grand.

Edited March 5, 2009 by hammercarp

[Big Cliff]

What I would like to know is how you get a bonus for running a company into the ground? Hydro One; City of Toronto; GM; Ford...... Any one?????

[Spiel]

You could add the former Stelco to the list Cliff, they were paying the top execs "performance bonuses" for decades while they were losing tens of millions all the while steering the company towards bankruptcy!

[Marko]

I guess we live in time where we reward stupidity and failure.

Sad times indeed on the bright side spring is just around the corner

[holdfast]

What I would like to know is how you get a bonus for running a company into the ground? Hydro One; City of Toronto; GM; Ford...... Any one?????

 

There are absolute Salary Caps are needed. As far as your Question. The Same people that put incompetents in positions in Government. Crown Corporations for example. Ever wonder why there are as many Francophone Generals in the Military as Anglophone which doesn't reflect the Percentages in Canadian society.

 

1. Human rights ( Language, visible minority, gender, etc percentages that are legislated in key positions)

2. Unfair Personal Evaluation Reports ( My Clone in Quebec (an extra Point) will get promoted before me because he is considered Bilingual, have you ever done a Government French test? I Have and I lived in Quebec).

3. The Buddy system

4. Pleasing the Masses ( Votes) due to Geographical location

5 And plain ole Spinelessness when it comes down to Leadership which includes jacking up or firing someone who Fs up. YUP someone said it ACCOUNTABILITY

 

Just some of what Ive seen as a cheap non union Government Employee

Edited March 5, 2009 by holdfast

[Ramble]

Nortel filed for bankruptcy protection i think last month?

All i know is my mom was a little worked up about the security of her pension and benefits. If Nortel goes down the number of people it's going to effect is HUGE. My grandmother gets money from Nortel, my mother, i have aunts and uncles, and neighbours who rely on that money. NOT to mention teh health benefits. Most of the people are too old go get other work. Some of them put in 30+ years with nortel...when it was called something else. These tools getting bonuses like that are criminal.

 

-Dave

[Headhunter]

No surprised at all! The folks at AIG in the states, took off on a junket (the execs.) right after receiving their first installment of bail out money from the U.S. government.

Here's another kick in the nuts... Chysler is laying off an entire shift in Windsor after receiving money from both U.S. and Canadian governments... should ther be some kinda tie in between public funds and manitaining employments levels?

Just a bunch crap I say!

HH

[theRJ]

Unfortunately our society rewards those who kissed the most behind. I think it is terrible that the people who have the creativity, knowledge and leadership ability to make businesses prosper can never get ahead because the ass kissers go out of their way to tear them down so they can get the big promotions. In these times creative thought is the easiest way to get fired since big business is apparently allergic to change. Those who have the ideas to save these companies are stuck working under those who are too busy ensuring their next exorbitant bonus to notice.

 

The other problem is unions and worker groups. I am all for fair representation but when the economy is in the crapper, asking for more money from companies who can't pay you already is insane. It is like they don't even know what is going to happen. If the businesses that employ their members are bankrupted and can no longer pay, their employees they are screwed. Maybe instead of pay raises they should be considering negotiating pay cuts. A pay cut might go a long way to ensure their members still have jobs when this recession is over. I apologize if I offended anyone but this is my opinion. I myself would rather take a 25% pay cut then la 100% pay cut.

 

RJ

[Fishnwire]

When I read the opening post, I wondered how long it would take before someone hijacked the thread for some good old fashion union-bashing. It's surprising how many people are eager to defend the owning class and blame working people every chance they get. Why though?

 

What does top execs giving themselves performance bonuses they don't deserve have to do with working people fighting to maintain their standard of living?

[OhioFisherman]

1. Headhunter cars aren`t selling GM sales are down 50% here since last year< maintaining employment levels would be nice, but to make more cars you can`t sell? It would just deepen the back log and companies are already running out of place to store over production. This isn`t an American or Canadian auto sales problem, it`s world wide.

 

2. RJ the fact is the butt kisser`s seem to be wearing business suits, they get a CEO job and get their lackeys appointed to the boards, no will question their moves, all flunky`s of the CEO. Their specialty is self promotion, what line of Bull can we tell to justify our own pay increases, the truth is not a factor. They can`t or won`t say we made a mistake, gods don`t.

 

Unions again? Look at the job our government did regulating the banking industry, the auto industry, the insurance industry, you would trust people that fund their election campaigns off of the people contributing millions to their campaigns to look out for you? Part of the overall problem here is union membership is way down, people have been sold a bill of goods by business and the politicians, we will take care of you, nothing could be further from the truth, they are too busy looking out for themselves.

 

As union membership has declined here so has the voice of the people, as an individual citizen you don`t have the voice or funds to compete with the millions from business to get your politicians ear.

[bigfish1965]

Unions again? Look at the job our government did regulating the banking industry, the auto industry, the insurance industry, you would trust people that fund their election campaigns off of the people contributing millions to their campaigns to look out for you? Part of the overall problem here is union membership is way down, people have been sold a bill of goods by business and the politicians, we will take care of you, nothing could be further from the truth, they are too busy looking out for themselves.

 

As union membership has declined here so has the voice of the people, as an individual citizen you don`t have the voice or funds to compete with the millions from business to get your politicians ear.

 

I do not think there is any correlation between union membership and deregulation. I do not recall the unions ever complaining about it. But that's not really their bag anyway.

Let's not forget this all started with the collapse of the banking industry..notably Lehmans. They had heavily leveraged assets and had little liquidity since they had rolled the dice on bundled sub-prime mortgages and got lucky several times but finally came up with snake eyes.

It was quick and easy cash but a disaster waiting to happen. Too many people were given mortgages that anyone with a grade 6 math ability could see were too much. It wasn't uncommon for people making 40k to get a 500k interest-only 50 yr mortgage. The introductory rates and terms made them affordable for the first year. Then as rates went up....so did defaults.

At first it was no big deal since housing prices were still moving upward so the banks were insured through the market.

But as more and more of the houses came up for sale, it created an imbalance in the supply and demand.

Having homes foreclosed on also had a psychological impact on communities further depressing values.

Then the whole thing fell like a house of cards, leaving banks and investors with a pile of foreclosures on homes that were way under water.

Suddenly the banks went from giving every fool who could write their names down a loan to giving no one money. They even cancelled revolving credit lines for companies that were paying back faithfully. These companies would borrow on their line, buy stock/supplies and then pay back in 60 days once their product was sold. In a market with low profit margins, it was the only way to survive since they could not compete with products from China and keep a large amount of liquidity.

In Canada we have different regulations which protect not only the banks from themselves, but protect employees, customers and investors. There is a set formula (with some wiggle room obviously) for qualifying for a mortgage.

We also have CMHC. Anyone not putting in at least 25% down on the home must put a chunk of cash into the CMHC pool. This way any bank having to foreclose is protected should they not recover the balance owing through the sale buy dipping into the pool.

With interest rates so close to the rate of inflation, most people are only putting down the minimum on a home so there is lots of liquidity in the CMHC pool.

What will be difficult for the tax payers to swallow will be the idea of bailouts going to fund the pension plans of workers in the companies receiving the cash while the majority of taxpayers have watched their RRSP's or RPP's (or 401k if you are in the US) shrivel away to half what they were 18 months ago. The pension plans for those companies in Canada were insured so the workers will get 60% or better no matter what happens...providing that it does not bankrupt the insurance companies....

 

Everyone has a share in the blame..and the fact is...it does not matter. Let's just get it fixed. Those pointing fingers are providing less hands in getting this economy back on track.

Government regulations are there for a reason and while we used to be chided for having 'anti-competitive restrictions' it resulted in none of our banks going under.

My workplace is doing quite well, amazingly. We saw this coming, offered a buyout to anyone who wanted it and got lean and mean prior to the collapse. It actually looks like we may have to hire soon. Whatever doubts I had about my execs were quickly erased.

[bigugli]

Meanwhile, back at Nortel. The monetary waste and stupidity of this corporation is nothing new. It is a 10 year old running story of mistakes, excesses and losses. Every time the 'splat' hit the fan, senior and corp management closed ranks, padded their wallets and petted themselves on the back.

A large number of the management had received stocks as bonuses and when Nortel's stocks first hit the wall many of these people had already unloaded them days before Nortel had posted it's losses. My one cousin was given 3 days lead time to unload his stocks in the firm because of a head's up from his boss. He has been kicking himself in the ever since because he hedged his bets and only sold off half.

[DRIFTER_016]

Those pointing fingers are providing less hands in getting this economy back on track.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2009 by DRIFTER_016

[OhioFisherman]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/

[OhioFisherman]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/04/merril...oena/index.html

[hammercarp]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/

In Canada. http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/the-daily...009/#clip145169