Cudz Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Being told to pay teachers more just cause they said so or they will strike if you don't is a form of terrorisim too me. I am not against what you said about public unions but,,,,, The pay is not what the strike would be about. See everyone thinks it is about pay. Brainwashed by $$$$$. Guess you didn't read the previous posts. issues: Equal prep time as secondary Equal per student funding as secondary classroom size and security. It sn't always about the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 The problem the teachers face is in the court of public opinion and unfortunately for them most of us went through the public system and experienced first hand all the dead wood that exists, it's not about how the media reports it. Like any union the dead wood can never be removed and keeps piling up. Another problem is the politicization of the classroom particularly during a strike which in my opinion does not belong there. People send their kids to school to learn how to read and write and not be indoctrined with the political philosophy of the teachers who have a captive audience. I also don't understand how a public school child would demand the same resources, prep time and funding that a high school kid would. To me it is a smokescreen that people are seeing right through. I feel most teachers are held hostage by the union heads as was said in earlier posts most would have taken the original deal. To strike now will cause outrage among the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebco Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 It's a shame we can't bash any Gm workers on here, but we can pick on our poor little Teachers. The Auto Industry and the Banks are the ones to blame for today's problems, not your kids Teacher. I do think strikes are totally wrong in there field of work, however I did enjoy back in Highschool in the 90's when our teachers went on strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeXXington Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I am not against what you said about public unions but,,,,,The pay is not what the strike would be about. See everyone thinks it is about pay. Brainwashed by $$$$$. Guess you didn't read the previous posts. issues: Equal prep time as secondary Equal per student funding as secondary classroom size and security. It sn't always about the money It is always about the money!!! issues: Pay raise.. Not hearing them saying we don't want it Equal prep time as secondary ---- Costs money --- and why do you need to be the same Equal per student funding as secondary --- Cost money -- is this not something that is outside of teachers relm, its up to the goverment to decide that formula classroom size and security. --- I would give them as its working conditions this but it cost money. I wish, that regardless what you did you got equal pay, does not happen in the public system. Why should one type of job be required to be the same as another in the indusrty.. Not sure I have the same pay, vacation time, or bennifits as the same as another guy at another company! I can bet the guy beside me at work doing the same thing might get more or less than me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 The problem the teachers face is in the court of public opinion and unfortunately for them most of us went through the public system and experienced first hand all the dead wood that exists, it's not about how the media reports it. Like any union the dead wood can never be removed and keeps piling up. Another problem is the politicization of the classroom particularly during a strike which in my opinion does not belong there. People send their kids to school to learn how to read and write and not be indoctrined with the political philosophy of the teachers who have a captive audience. I also don't understand how a public school child would demand the same resources, prep time and funding that a high school kid would. To me it is a smokescreen that people are seeing right through. I feel most teachers are held hostage by the union heads as was said in earlier posts most would have taken the original deal. To strike now will cause outrage among the public. Do teachers really politicize the classroom. Really? Re: funding --- If you have kids in elementary school, next time you're visiting the classroom ask the teacher what in the classroom was purchased by the teacher vs. the school boardc. I think you'd poop yourself. Its pretty scary how much our elementary school system relies on the teachers buying stuff out of their own pocket. Really ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 btw - isn't the pay increase everyone is ticked off about basically the rate of inflation? I don't get how 2.5% a year is getting people upset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Cram Yes they do politicize the classroom, have you heard about the principal in NB who wanted to get rid of the anthem? how about during the Harris years? do you think it was going on then? I know it was and it's still going on. So are you saying a grade 1 teacher needs the same prep to teach abc's as a calculus teacher? How about some numbers on how much the teachers fork out of their pocket. If I need a tool or some workclothes should that come out of my pocket or my employers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Cram Yes they do politicize the classroom, have you heard about the principal in NB who wanted to get rid of the anthem? how about during the Harris years? do you think it was going on then? I know it was and it's still going on. So are you saying a grade 1 teacher needs the same prep to teach abc's as a calculus teacher? How about some numbers on how much the teachers fork out of their pocket. If I need a tool or some workclothes should that come out of my pocket or my employers? I hardly think an example of a principal in new brunswick banning a national anthem has anything to do with the supposed elementary teacher's strike.. Not clothes. If you need tools, then yes -- i'd say they should come out of your employer's pocket OR be tax deductible. The money you spent on them should not be considered income. If you're a tradesperson i bet that's the case, right?? Prep time -- i don't even really know what that is. Time off between periods? As for funding -- just do what i said. Ask the teacher. I did. Its pretty scary. You'd likely find that 75% of the stuff in an elementary classroom was paid for by the teacher out of her pocket....including the books. I personally have no problem funding my kids' education. Esp when - as muddler pointed out - we're paying our teachers less than daycare babysitters. Edited February 12, 2009 by cram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimace Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 If you want to know where all your tax dollars are. Ask a doctor. They over book, rush you out of their office so they can jam the next appointment in ( more appointments more minimum charges per appointment). But that is small game, the Hospitals are raking it in. Overcharging the government for everything, they don't even have to give you a bill stating what they are charging the government for. So they can give you one thing drive up the bill for service fees for this and that and the government believes them because there word is bond. Hospitals always cry poor, lets have another community event of executive dinner to fund our new dialysis machine. Your donations, guess what. Tax deductible. But it is a necessary evil. If the government stops letting the hospitals and doctors rip them (us) off, they will just go to the states and rip off the insurance companies off, the insurance companies get sick of it and stop covering things, this hurts the people. Kind of what our dentists do here, but just like in Hammy Hamster. That is another story. A busy Doctors office will charge more to the government in one week than the government funds a classroom including teacher in a year. Canadians pick up 83 percent of doctors malpractice fees as well. Swwweeet. If you have a malpractice suit against a doctor and they can use government money to drag out the legal fees to break you. Nice. http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/509183 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) What did the teacher tell you Cram? did they give you a number? I'm curious as to what you consider scary. The principal in NB has to do with the politicization of the whole school actually, not just the classroom. Edited February 12, 2009 by hotrod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemper Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 wooo strikes. Fun eh? As a student, I appreciate the work that our teachers do and understand that it isn't exactly the warm cuddly job that everyone seems to think it is BUT this striking thing has got to stop. I have friends at York that have been completely screwed because of the strike there. When you are paying for school (be it out of your pocket or in tax dollars) you should get exactly that, school. Teacher's union strikes are not a good thing. Also, there is no chance that an elementary school teacher needs the prep time of a highschool teacher. Sorry if that offends anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) What did the teacher tell you Cram? did they give you a number? I'm curious as to what you consider scary. The principal in NB has to do with the politicization of the whole school actually, not just the classroom. Principal in NB has nothing to do with this thread. Nope - she didn't give a number, just pointed stuff out. When the school board won't pay for books for my kids, so teh teachers have to, i have a problem with it. I don't care what the number is. I'm surprised you do. Maybe we just don't have the same values. I mean, i probably spent 3x more on beer last year than the average household's school tax....if cutting into my beer budget means kids get a better education...... Edited February 12, 2009 by cram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrod Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 The principal in NB does have to do with this thread because you gave me the impression in your previous post that you didn't think that politicization in schools existed. I was just giving an example of how it does. If you have a problem with the teachers paying for supplies then why don't you step up? I'm sure you'd want a number before you opened your wallet. What does this have to do with values? this isn't personal. It's about union heads trying to extort money and benefits for their membership out of the public in the guise of it being "for the kids". I'm sorry I don't believe that, but it seems that you do. Let's agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt bruce Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Sorry Missfish I ussually agree with ya ... BUT I DONT THINK that just because times are tough people should not expect a raise when the higher ups THAT GOT US IN THIS mess are GIVEING themselves BONUS's !!!! now you can make a case against who deserves a raise and who should or should not strike , teachers bash or what ever etc. etc. , but why is it every time something goes wrong we feel TO FIX IT WE MUST GIVE UP OUR RIGHTS , the VERY RIGHTS THAT SHAPED THIS COUNTRY AND MADE IT THE GREAT PLACE IT IS ?????????, my grandfather and 3 uncles DIED to defend those rights , many on this board familys are the same and now we just piss them away , I bet my grandfather isnt sleeping to well these days !!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 The principal in NB does have to do with this thread because you gave me the impression in your previous post that you didn't think that politicization in schools existed. I was just giving an example of how it does. If you have a problem with the teachers paying for supplies then why don't you step up? I'm sure you'd want a number before you opened your wallet. What does this have to do with values? this isn't personal. It's about union heads trying to extort money and benefits for their membership out of the public in the guise of it being "for the kids". I'm sorry I don't believe that, but it seems that you do. Let's agree to disagree. Okay - let me ask it this way....what does a principal in new brunswick politicizing the national anthem have anything to do with a teacher's strike in Ontario that is about increased salaries and funding? I value my kids' education. I don't get why we are freaking out over whether or not to properly fund our kids education when the $'s are far below what i spend on beer annually and FAR FAR FAR below what we paid the automotive industry to keep their workers in ontario. btw - average teacher's salary is 71k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Cudz, you are right I meant with the new contract, they will make that much I work for a school board myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cudz Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 It is always about the money!!! issues: Pay raise.. Not hearing them saying we don't want it Equal prep time as secondary ---- Costs money --- and why do you need to be the same Equal per student funding as secondary --- Cost money -- is this not something that is outside of teachers relm, its up to the goverment to decide that formula classroom size and security. --- I would give them as its working conditions this but it cost money. I wish, that regardless what you did you got equal pay, does not happen in the public system. Why should one type of job be required to be the same as another in the indusrty.. Not sure I have the same pay, vacation time, or bennifits as the same as another guy at another company! I can bet the guy beside me at work doing the same thing might get more or less than me... True that is about money but not the teacher's personal income which people have commented on within this thread. The public school teachers I talk to are not complaining about their wages at all! That is the point I was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfish Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Alls good,they have excepted the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarzan's Jane Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 That is good news...and this was a good thread. I am wiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 looks like no strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHAD Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Headhunter -- sounds like your wife hates her job. That's really unfortunate. What, lol, your being sarcastic right? Well i thought the complete opposite. In order to do what Headhunters wife does, she has to love her job. I recently took a supervisor position for a new company. My shift is usually 9-5, I don't think I left before 5:30pm this week or last. Why, cause there is work to do, co-wokers coming to me for advise, support, help whatever. I don't shun them away and I certainly don't expect to be paid overtime and won't be for staying later cause I would never ever ask for that. Yes, I like my job. I think people are very un-educated when it comes to teachers. Ya they have summers off, and march break but for good reason, teachers work 10-12 hours a day, not 6.5. Teachers have to deal with something worse then kids, stupid new age parents. Same hockey moms that are lashing out at teen reefs cause jr. dot a penalty or the reef missed a slash. Overpaid, I disagree. Go on strike, I disagree there too. I am not a teacher, if they would allow me to belt a smart ass with a ruler and not be punished I would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Hi guys, Not to belabour the point, but I had a bit of a conversation with my wife about this... yes she is steaming!!!! Currently, there are 300 minutes each day, for teachers to teach. This is required by Ontario law. The teachers, under their current contract get 200 minutes per week of prep time... that's time not in the classroom, but time they are to spend preparing for future classes, marking etc... Now, and here's the part that really sticks in my craw... should they receive more prep time in this agreement, they will essentially be in the classroom four days a week! Yes, they will be in the school, but not in front of kids! So, who pays for this? You guessed it! You and I! Think about it. In order for the board to run the school properly, they are now going to have to hire more teachers, just to maintain the status quote, with regard to ensuring kids have a teacher in the classroom. Now, couple that with 2.5% increase over 4 years and you have a recipe for a huge sucking sound coming out of the provincal coffers. So, leagally the teachers have to be in class 15 minutes before class starts and they legally have to be in the class for 15 minutes after class. Does anyone know of a job that requires you to be at work for 5 hours a day and pays what a teachers job does? Benefits, holidays etc.. not with standing! Good gig, huh! HH PS... Shad, you hit the nail on the head... the only reason my wife is still in the job, is because she loves it! Could she be doing a much better job, you bet, but her hands are tied. And yes, the new age parent is one of the biggest pains in the butt she has! Also, regarding the Education Assistants... they fall under C.u.p.e. and their contract states that they are required to be in the school until 3:30pm. My wife holds staff meetings from 3:15pm and at exactly 3:30pm, most of the EA's get up and walk out! Mid sentence, they get up and walk out... how many of us would still have a job if we simply got up and walked out on our boss, mid sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aniceguy Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 someone sent this to me. . . its actually a good read, with the US ecomony driven by the 2/3 consumer spending here is the giant of them all and how they break it down. . . maybe congress should get some input from them http://www.nypost.com/seven/02072009/posto...4007.htm?page=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoil Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 My wifes a teacher and i work for another school board(non teaching).She dosen't/didnt' want to go on strike.The majority of teachers i work with don't want to go on strike.The problem was they haven't or did vote on a strike.The higher ups in the union were the ones making the decisions.I'm sure if given a chance to vote the teachers would have taken the contract offered in November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt bruce Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Damn do the knives come out when someone is precieved to get more then others how much of this hate is just plain old ENVY.My parents taught me to go to school and work hard and you get rewarded in life .I went to school allmost 19 years if I added all the time it took to get 2 ba,s and my masters , now im told Im lazy and I DONT LIVE in the REAL WORLD (damn snag you had to tell them about the tinfoil) and I should be working for minimum wage . I work for the goverment and after reading this I guess I should BE ASHAMED that I make over 100,000 a year . SORRY GUYS can I still be your friends at least I work in water quality IM not A TEACHER .. .Envy (also called invidiousness) may be defined as an emotion that "occurs when a person lacks another’s [perceived] superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it."[1] It can also derive from a sense of low self-esteem that results from an upward social comparison threatening a person's self image: another person has something that the envier considers to be important to have. If the other person is perceived to be similar to the envier, the aroused envy will be particularly intense, because it signals to the envier that it just as well could have been him or her who had the desired object.[2][3] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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