Radnine Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I have never seen these items before but for a review in the free bass magazine that someone is kind enough to send me. After reading all of this the first thing that pops into my head is who is buying these things? I can't believe that someone could make money off of a product that would be used by such a small group of people (what percentage of anglers would use these?). I felt the same thing after watching a curling tournament on TSN that was sponsored by DeKalb (they make corn seed). I mean who were they hoping to reach? The average guy is not going to watch curling and say "hey honey I'll be right back, I've just got to nip down to the corner and buy a bag of corn seed". I hope that the powers that be aren't thinking that the average fisherman is daft enough to think that they need cull tags now because that's what the "pro's" use. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Guys all good points, a geezer myself, sometimes progress comes in small steps. Look back at the pictures from when the tournaments started, them fish were all hanging on a stringer and no limits. After the tournament fish fry cause they were all dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramble Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 There has been several excellent points brought up here, and i am glad to see this has remained pretty civil, although there is clearly some emotion attached to some replies. Everyone should be congradulated for furthering the discussion. Conversation is where education happens. Anyway on to the subjects here. Are tournamnets hard on fish? I'm going to have to say yes. Displaced fish, increased stress are the hardest things on the caught fish. Lips tags i think are very minor, but no doubt to increase the stress level somewhat. I did a little digging on the net to try and find something simple, and informative that wouldn't require a lot of reading to get the point across, which would back up the science behind the subject. (aniceguy might be interested with this for your work) http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/226954.pdf This MNR publication does a pretty good job. One section of interest begins at page 13...then scroll down to "Biological impcts". It comes with a nice little table of the "Probelm" "Impacts" and cited litereature backing it up. Then page 27 - Largemouth bass Relocation and page 29 Physiological perspective on live release are both beneficial to this discussion. In here somewhere is a nice little example about how Big Rideau lakes bass respond to tournament angling. There is also some stuff on what associated organisations are doing to limit mortality. I'm not a tourney angler, but to think that tourney fish see the same stress levels as weekend anglers catch and release methods seems a little misguided to me. Tourny fish do have more stress on average. Keeping fish is clearly going to be hard on teh population, but the wide spread stress in a population, especially if it has been significantly relocated should not be underestimated. I din't see these things as being as "assault" on our fishing rights be simply as part of the learning curve to better practises. Over the last 20 years there has been huge strides in how touney fish are treated, and to think we know everything is short sighted. They way these things are conducted needs to change i think. But iam hardly an expert on the matter. -Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfish Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) Guys all good points, a geezer myself, sometimes progress comes in small steps. Look back at the pictures from when the tournaments started, them fish were all hanging on a stringer and no limits. After the tournament fish fry cause they were all dead. I have seen some of the older day tourneys Paul. Like you say,on stringers,even Guys lined up with the fish in plastic bags with no water. They have come along way since then. Myself I dont see what more can be done as far as care for the fish during the day,except maybe they could do like Lew was saying. Honor and pics,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Dont see that in the near future for that sport. The livewells these days are so much more superior then back in the day aswell. Edited February 1, 2009 by misfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohhenrygsr Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 just keep everything you catch Case Closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steverowbotham Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I have never seen these items before but for a review in the free bass magazine that someone is kind enough to send me.After reading all of this the first thing that pops into my head is who is buying these things? I can't believe that someone could make money off of a product that would be used by such a small group of people (what percentage of anglers would use these?). I felt the same thing after watching a curling tournament on TSN that was sponsored by DeKalb (they make corn seed). I mean who were they hoping to reach? The average guy is not going to watch curling and say "hey honey I'll be right back, I've just got to nip down to the corner and buy a bag of corn seed". I hope that the powers that be aren't thinking that the average fisherman is daft enough to think that they need cull tags now because that's what the "pro's" use. Jim You'd be surprised how many tournament anglers there are out there. There is arguably only 1 PROFESSIONAL tournament angler in all of Canada. B.A.S.S. (Bass Anglers Sportsmans Society) has like 2 million members, and 95% of tournament anglers use cull tags. I'd say thats a decent sized niche. When I worked at bass pro shops, we couldnt keep them in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSmallie Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) This debate has and will continue to go on for years. You either love tournaments or hate them. The tournament guys are fisherman first and competitors second and no matter how much cash is on the line the resources comes first. Yes there will be a little post mortality but nothing compared to years ago and nothing compared to what it would be like if this generation of tournament anglers had been raised as meat hunters. Many clubs have instituted small limits for tournaments(4 fish instead of 5) to help protect the fishery. BASS instituted a 3 fish co-angler limit the last time on Erie to help the fishery. We have come a long way and there is still some work to do. I have been tournament angling for over 10 years and have only seen the fishing improve. Edited February 1, 2009 by BigSmallie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kulik Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Back to the original post and question-I use an x-tools scale, and there is an awesome new new-system that Ardent brought out -they have the actual weight on the float itself, drop-by the Ardent booth at the Int. cent. fishing and boat show to check them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radnine Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) name='steverowbotham' date='Feb 1 2009, ?B.A.S.S. (Bass Anglers Sportsmans Society) has like 2 million members, and 95% of tournament anglers use cull tags. I'd say thats a decent sized niche. When I worked at bass pro shops, we couldnt keep them in stock. You're right Steve, that does surprise me. But how many bags of corn seed do they buy? Huh, HUH? Jim Edited February 1, 2009 by Radnine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishforfun Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Great discussion guys some interesting responses not a tourney angler so I'll stay out of it. Radnine I am a curler and do you know how many cash crop farmers curl, winter is their down time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAsin Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Great discussion guys some interesting responses not a tourney angler so I'll stay out of it. Radnine I am a curler and do you know how many cash crop farmers curl, winter is their down time. very good point, i think that sets the commercial pretty straight, sometimes a point gets made without thinkin about it, cutrling is HUGE in the prairies and if not mistaken so is farming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAsin Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 page 15 in BASSMAN a small write up on "great gifts" the new berkley cull tag clips and scale they work great Nodie to get back to the original question you posed, they are the best ones for the fish. This being said you can see that fisherman and companies are still improving and doin there best to reduce this "post release mortatality" that seems to kill so many fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfish Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I came accross this store. Pretty decent pricing and has them so called Glory bags. basstackledepot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAsin Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 not a big fan of them personally just seeems as though the bag would removed and abraise the slime and skin more than anything and restrict the fishes movement, thinking i'll stick with the tag in the mouth, even though in 2 weeks all them fish are gonna die becasue of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radnine Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Great discussion guys some interesting responses not a tourney angler so I'll stay out of it. Radnine I am a curler and do you know how many cash crop farmers curl, winter is their down time. Between you and Steve, I stand corrected on both counts. Long live marketing! May culled fish live as long. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAsin Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Long live marketing! May culled fish live as long. Jim hahah i like that line! Matt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCTFisher9120 Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Is that those rings that they punch through the mouth of the fish.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hey!!! I was just kiddin' about all that stuff I wrote last night! I actually love Bass tournements and Tourney anglers! I also love the multi colored floaty ball cullin' system too!!! They're actually good for the Bass, if the Bass starts sinking in the live well... the little multi colored floaty balls act like a PFD and keep him from drowning!!! ... not really To answer your question aboot how I would weigh a fish Bassasin, I like to stick the scale hook in the fishes anal vent!... this keeps him from poopin' out any weght while I'm weighing him!!!... but boy do they squirm when you insert the hook!!! ... actually, weighing is soooo 70' style! A quick length and girth measurement is today's style!... I don't really trust spring or electronic scales, but if I'm curious about a fishes approximate weight, I weigh him in the net... net and all, sticking the scale hook into the net... not the fish!!! My net weighs 15 oz, and i deduct that from the total weight. Which brings us to another interesting aspect of Bass tourney's... ya ever notice how in the 70's and 80's it was "no nets allowed" lip'em only, but now they all use nets? I wonder how many tourney anglers had to get a treble in the hand or fall in the drink for that change to happen? ... and speaking of change! BigSmallie Posted Today, 12:19 PM Many clubs have instituted small limits for tournaments(4 fish instead of 5) to help protect the fishery. BASS instituted a 3 fish co-angler limit the last time on Erie to help the fishery. We have come a long way and there is still some work to do. I have been tournament angling for over 10 years and have only seen the fishing improve. I wonder why tourney's and clubs have reduced the weigh in creel limit if keeping fish in a live well and culling is ok and doesn't hurt the fish eh??? Yes!... I have a general distaste for Bass tourney fishermen, but it was born out of encounters with them on the lake and their own antics!!! "Get out of my way! I'm fishing for money!!!", "Move off of this spot! I'm fishing for money! (it doesn't matter that I was there first)"... or my favorite nis when you're fishing a stretch of shore line they want to fish and they run that 21'boat and 225 hp motor between you and the bank, trying to make you leave! (are your faces red yet?) I know that all Bass tourney anglers aren't like this, but it has happened enough to leave a general malaise in me toward all Bass tourney fishermen!!! Remember! When you're fishing a tourney... you're not only setting an example for yourself, but for all Bass tourney fishermen!!! As for the original post to this thread... I still feel that the fish are better off without the tag culling system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbac31 Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hey Brian. I bought these glory bags. I would not waste your money ever. If some how they get turned upside down that fish will drown. I have 3 culling systems and find that the Berkley one with the plastic tags that do not puncture a hole along with the Livewell Rejuvenede or similar products dont stress them to much. I also like taking just plain old lake water from the lake that I'm on and freezing it. Label it and bring it along with you in a small lunch cooler to add frequently throughout the day to regulate the temp of the water. Look no matter what you will find that fish will get stressed. I have caught fish with tubes, hooks, crankbaits etc still stuck in them. Catching them like most guys here do, netting them, and releasing them will remove slime. Catching them period will cause them stress. I would think with the lower temps up here they would have a better rate of survival and the Tournament directors do a very good job of taking care of them as well as releasing them. The plastic clips i think do a better job of culling. Some people do not like tournament guys and thats just their opinion to which they are entitled to. You will always find guys that will oppose this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 A few years ago I was heading out across the small bay with my boat full of building materials. It was weighed down pretty good and I was taking it very easy going. Then all of a sudden there were a mass of bass boats and a helicopter filming the action blasting past me heading out to go fishing. They were not caring about me and my boatload and the wake they were causing. Some of you may remember "The last cull"? I was glad when that bunch was gone. Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth for bass tourney fishing. We have a couple tourneys come through each year. For a couple weeks after the osprey and seagulls are dining on a few bass. I don't think the bass fishers hurt the population at our part of the lake as they are not fished a lot otherwise. It's just what I have observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Fished in tournaments with the club I was in with reduced limits, I liked them. Instead of a 5 fish limit as the law allows we would knock it back to 3 fish, separate the men from the boys, get rid of the dink keepers. Sort of specific to some bodies of water though. On Lake Erie you can still weight in 12-15 pounds with 3 fish, some of the inland lakes here it can be a tough job with a 5 fish limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Like Lew mentioned the cheating can happen, a pretty well known incident to the bass guys here, 2 dudes that live on or near a lake here entered the tournaments of that lake all the time and did well on that lake. On a tournament day one of the other anglers notice a bobber bobbing near a tree in the water and took a look, it was hooked up to a live bag with 5 bass in it. He clipped the fins and reported it to the tournament director, the 2 dudes that lived there weighed the fish in, they would have won if nobody had checked. Like 100 boats in the field, dudes were banned, lost all respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAsin Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) in fact my face did not turn the slightest bit red while i read any of that. as a matter of fact my burning did from feeling somewhat insulted to the fact that you compare all bass tourny fisherman to the select few holes that do act that way i always make sure to have respect for anglers on the water when in a tournament and in everday life as a general rule it is just the way i was raised dont think that some of the "new generation" didnt get a good whip across the crack with a belt or a hand in that regard i have come across folks in "my" spot where i catch big bass and simply shoot them a friendly wave and smile and head to the next spot hoping they didnt just pull a big bass off that log and check it out later, i have been on a lake before fishing for nothing but pride and joy no money no prizes and had tourny guys fly by with a good distance between and a smile and wave and i can just imagine they're muttering to themselves that i just caught there big bass. regardless of how some individuals feel about the desire to compete in tournaments it is an obsession of mine and opinions of others are not goin to change that. i take much pride in doing as much as i can to help my fish stay lively and well, using the best tags for culling and handling by their bodies as little as possible. as for nets i use a rubber net removing as little slime as possible. what kind of net are you using that weighs only 15oz.? is it them rough green nylon light weight nets with the knots tied in it. becasue they're great it allows you to clean a fish and not have to scale it, the net already did it for ya! unless your using on of them butterfly nets, they should weigh in around a pound but then again who can trust their scale? how do ya get an accurate measure on your fish? lay them on the carpet of your boat or just hold em in the air and slide the tape out and get a quick read? and as for the fish losing weight out its rear end thats not a problem becasue with money on the line i make sure to stitch that up real good, sometimes even carry a seringe full of mercury makes them at least 3 oz. heavier each adding up for almost a total pound at the end of the day. but keep that quiet thats just a little trick i like to use! dont need all them other jack to be doin that. and the fact that we leave impressions for every other tourny fisherman is the same as fishin up here on the hardwater, if a guy comes and drills a hole 10 feet beside ya on a 500 acre lake make all icefisherman jerks? maybe its just the cold gettin to our heads? then again being the way i am i dont get my tampon all tied in a knot but rather chat with them and let it slide i dont own the lake and neither do they they're usually pretty deccent folks just lookin to meet a few similar interest folk on the water. this being said you can carry on to argue the fact that tournaments kill fish but so does driving a boat maybe ya'll should sell that motor and buy some really nice paddles with it. and dont think of gettin a trolling motor instead becasue you have to use a battery and keep it charged and that uses electricity and that kills fish too i imagine. so how about we all live in the dark, fish from shore with worms tied to the line yes the line not a hook, wouldnt wanna chance killing them. Matt! Edited February 2, 2009 by BassAsin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAsin Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 A few years ago I was heading out across the small bay with my boat full of building materials. It was weighed down pretty good and I was taking it very easy going. Then all of a sudden there were a mass of bass boats and a helicopter filming the action blasting past me heading out to go fishing. They were not caring about me and my boatload and the wake they were causing. Some of you may remember "The last cull"? I was glad when that bunch was gone. Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth for bass tourney fishing. We have a couple tourneys come through each year. For a couple weeks after the osprey and seagulls are dining on a few bass. I don't think the bass fishers hurt the population at our part of the lake as they are not fished a lot otherwise. It's just what I have observed. the last cull was a terrible idea bernie, it was'nt a tournament it was a tv show and many of the participants had no respect for themselves let alone others many of the entrants had hardly fished before in their lives i knew several of them, i vounteered my assistance for half a day on the show before realising that none of the overhead staff gave a crap about the sport or the fish simply making a show and a dollar i quickly realised this and stopped volunteering. but i do realise where u are coming from although it is not simply the ignorance of a tournament angler but people in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirk Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 My 2 cents,cull tags in no way stress fish and ya the Berkley clips are the best,it does save from chasing them around a livewell.Glory bags have been shown to reduce stress because the fish feel more secure and they don't get sloshed around in the well when running or bang up against each other,they don't remove slime and fish can be tranfered,culled etc. without being touched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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