Floater Suits and Snowmobiles

[Hookset]

First off, I am not commenting on any accidents or drownings which have happened this year or past, I'm just trying to understand something. There are always circumstances surrounding any accident.

 

The part that I have a hard time understanding is this:

 

When people pay upwards of $10K for a snowmobile, plus insurance, trail permits etc.

Then they go out and spend hundreds of dollars on a racy looking snowmobile suit.

 

Why would you not buy a suit which provides flotation ?

For me it's a no brainer. Is the reason due to a lack of flexibility or comfort with a floater suit ?

 

I have a 2 piece floater suit which is Mustang Ice Rider pants and just got a new Nautilus Floater coat for X-Mas.

The new coat is better insulated and has more flexibility than my old one.

So I don't understand if it is a comfort or flexibility issue.

I don't believe in making things mandatory, as in making the wearing of a floater suit mandatory if you snowmobile or ice fish on a lake. Common sense should be mandatory but good luck with that.

I was a volunteer fire fighter for several years and had cold water immersion training.

The speed at which you can remove yourself from the water with a floater or immersion suit proved their value to me.

 

There must be a reason that so few use a floater suit. Maybe some members who snowmobile would be able to clue me in.

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

Hookset.

[LeXXington]

In the cold weather, even with the floater suite you only have a bit too get out of the water. Then once out of the water you need to find warmth fast.

 

One of the problems with snow mobiles is by the time you realise you are on thin ice you are driving faster away from solid Ice and then the issue is if you go farther out is it going to get thicker or thiner.

 

I would imagine most people would "Push Gas and GO" hoping for Solid ice. If it gets thiner and won't hold you own weight not going to help you in the long run.

 

For the extra time a floater suite gives you its a must but it won't save you. If floater suits came in more "cool" colours maybe people might buy them. Most floater suits are bright colours to find you or your body quickly

[bigfish1965]

You actually have quite a bit of time to get out of the water. If you watch the video pinned up top about getting out of the water after falling in, the demonstration shows that hypothermia is not the killer in these events, but the natural hyperventilation causing people to inhale water. Having your head above the water in those moments until you can control your breathing gives you more than enough time to get out.

[tonyb]

Well said Rick.

 

What's more important...looking fashionable sinking to the lake bottom or floating when you go through the ice?

[Riparian]

buying a float suit for your snowmobile would only make sense if you lived by a lake and drove on it regularly. They also cost quite a bit of cash. The main concern for most snowmobilers is warmth. Wind chill is a major factor here. If its -10 and you are traveling at 70kph, that equates to a potential -30 or -40 wind chill. Any cracks in your suit or helmet, or thin material will devistate exposed skin. Im not sure if floatation suits are even designed for snowmobile use.

[irishfield]

You can buy a sledders two piece float outfit in any good sled shop/outfitter. No more expensive than our floater suits or a fancy sled outfit for that matter. Walk into Jack and Jills in Midland and check out the selection.

[danbo]

How much $$ is your LIFE worth to you?

[Fisherman]

A mighty Amen to all the above posts.

[KyleM]

The no brainer isnt the suit itself, its staying off the ice until its safe.

 

If you cant cross open water with a sled then IMO you shouldnt be heading out early....wait for the ice

to freeze.

[LeXXington]

Correct, a floater suit give you 2 hours of safety from hypothermia and the added protection to keep you from drowning. But

that has too assume that you have solid ice or strong enough ice to pull yourself out of the water, and find shelter to warm up.

 

I think my main point was the greatest problems with snowmobiles is the time you reliase you have a problem you are in trouble, If you were walking you at least know where you fell in there was safe ice to that point and it was not too far away. Even with an ATV you don't travel too far once you hit very thin ice,

 

snowmobiles can travel a bit over water before the track hits the point where forward momentom slows to a stop.

[corvette1]

i go 40mph in my pro-v without any wind going through it if you can spend 10 grand on a sled you can aford a 300 hundred dollar suit at least you have chanze with one

[Riparian]

what about the people who dont live near the lake and 99% of their time is spent off the water? Staying off dangerous ice, taking precautions saves more lives than wearing a float suit.

 

I agree with wearing a float suit while on the ice, but some of you are ignoring the other side of the argument. Its also been mentioned twice now that everyone's sled cost 10 grand. most cost a fraction of that and its getting harder to justifiy paying the insurance and trail permits every year for 8 weeks of use.

 

why arent ATV's being brought into the equation? because atv operators arent bombing 10 km stretches at 100kmh on the ice. Which just goes to show, its not the safety gear you have bought and paid for, but how you avoid danger in the first place.

[bigfish1965]

To a point you are quite correct, Riparian. But there is always the unknown that people get into even when they are using common sense. Even if I practice perfect boat safety, does it mean it is impossible for me to capsize? Anything is possible.

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.It doesn't matter the cost of your sled or your boat...the cost of your safety equipment is irrelevant. If you want to see your insurance prices come down, get more guys driving safely and wearing safety gear.

Few guys with floater suits die and and few wearing life jackets drown and few wearing seatbelts get ejected from their car and die. If you have kids and are not adequately protected from death, what excuse do you give them?

Floater suits can be had for $200 to $300. Not cheap, but certainly not out of the range of affordability for those involved in the activity.

[Terry]

good idea to wear a floater suit on a snowmobile, sure we can all understand the logic in that

 

but

 

there is not even a law that you need to wear a floater suit/lifejacket on a boat, on board yes but wear, no law

 

come on, how many of you wear you life jackets every minute you are in a boat..no I mean really how many

 

 

so how can we think they should, when most of us don't

 

it all sounds good on paper but if not a law, it's all just talk

[cityfisher]

I spoke to my buddy a while back about why he likes to wear his cool $$ yammi sled gear instead of a float suit. He didnt have a good response ! too bulky while sledding he said ... whatever i say.. i dont go on the ice with out my float suit...esp when im on my atv

[Sinker]

In the case with the 2 guys on simcoe, floaters would have only made it easier to find the bodies. All it would save is divers being needed to recover them. They were way out there, where there is basically no ice, and it was close to 20 below. A floater suit isn't going to save you after you've gone thru miles from shore. You'd never make the walk back in.

 

Its a sad thing to happen, but lets face it, it happens every year. It always seems like its locals who know the ice conditions too.......just pushing thier luck IMO.

 

I feel sorry for the families of these guys......

 

Sinker

[Greencoachdog]

In the case with the 2 guys on simcoe, floaters would have only made it easier to find the bodies. All it would save is divers being needed to recover them. They were way out there, where there is basically no ice, and it was close to 20 below. A floater suit isn't going to save you after you've gone thru miles from shore. You'd never make the walk back in.

 

Its a sad thing to happen, but lets face it, it happens every year. It always seems like its locals who know the ice conditions too.......just pushing thier luck IMO.

 

I feel sorry for the families of these guys......

 

Sinker

 

With the proper survial equipment tucked inside of your suit, you have a helluva lot better chance of being found alive. I think a cellphone in a zip loc bag, a strobe, and an emergency beacon would save a lot of lives in a situation like this.

 

BE PREPARED!!!

[KyleM]

I dont wear one if I go on the ice with a sled...They are uncomfortable to ride in.

Stay off thin ice.....it aint rocket science.

 

Not a whole lot of avid snowmobilers get into trouble, its the ice fisherman with sleds (not all).

 

 

Its the riders that need to be educated on ice conditions.

As soon as people think theyre safe because of the suit youll get idiots riding on 3 inches of ice.

If you need to use your floater suit when riding your sled then you probably shouldnt have been on the sled in the first place.

 

You can probably count the number of people on one hand who own sleds worth 10 grand on the board.

 

Its fairly easy....check the OFSC trails. If the lake trails are open in the region you can sled on the ice.

I never understood why people think its smart to go out on the lake before the trails are open.

Ive done some stupid things on sleds but riding on thin ice has never been one of them.

 

COMMON SENSE SAVES LIVES NOT FLOATATION SUITS

[Sinker]

With the proper survial equipment tucked inside of your suit, you have a helluva lot better chance of being found alive. I think a cellphone in a zip loc bag, a strobe, and an emergency beacon would save a lot of lives in a situation like this.

 

BE PREPARED!!!

 

Of course you have a better chance in a survival suit.

 

The thing is, these guys were MILES offshore. By the time they got out of water, and made a call, then had rescuers get out there......risking thier lives.....its already too late.

 

-20 with a north wind 20k+ that day will kill you in minutes!! Its hard enough just baiting a hook, let alone walking miles soaken wet....

 

Being prepared will help for sure, but sometimes, there's nothing you can do! They shouldn't have been out there, they were local guys, and knew the ice wasn't safe. I have a feeling they got turned around in the snow, and headed the wrong way. A compass might have saved their lives......we'll never know the whole story.

 

Sinker

[ecmilley]

I don't need a floater suit on my sled i don't go out on ice until the local clubs start staking the lakes.

As to the sled yes it's over 10k and my big dollar yammi suit is made for all day riding on a snowmobile.

I have a floater suit i use it fishing from october to may but only when fishing, it is way to bulky for sled use and gets a little drafty at 100km/h .

 

The biggest mistake i see when people get onto the bad ice on a sled is trying to turn out of if or slowing down, i can tell you from personal expeirence playing a game called puddle jumping stay straight and keep it to the bar you should be fine.

[Kerry]

First,I want to say my condolences to the families that have to deal with the aftermath of this unfortunate incident.It's terrible but could have been avoided by simple common sense.

According to the article in the local Packet here in Orillia the bodies were found 150 ft from Georgina Island.If that was the case floatation suites whether it be the Orange one piece or comparable two piece snowmobile type (Mustang Ice Rider) in conjunction with the hand ice picks may have given one or both a chance to make it to safety.ANYONE that drives a sled has to have seen the video that the OFSC has touted for years,and even if you don't ride trails most will have watched the snowmobiler television show or snow trax and they both promote safe habits when it comes to ice riding.

Most riders that I know don't like the ice rider type suits including myself as they don't breathe like a normal suite,so you either sweat too much or you end up cold from the trapped moisture after.I can attest to that from my one piece if I'm walking out a long distance pulling my stuff,You sweat!If I use the sled while fishing I wear my one piece floatation and as a matter of course will punch a few holes enroute just to quell the nerves.I'm usually fishing Cooch or St John so ice conditions are pretty consistent and of course are much smaller bodies of water.Ice fishing areas are also pretty consistent so there is lots of common routes on the lakes.

When we are snowmobiling I wear my normal suite but I also check the OFSC website before I ride the area that I'm going and will talk to people at stops along the way and get ice reports if possible as we ride if we are possibly going to cross water.We only do staked lake runs and as of today there are no lakes staked anywhere around us.

Probably the worst case scenario is if an emergency response member gives up his/her life in the process of recovering someone that's already gone.That would be a shame.

 

Kerry

[lunkerbasshunter]

2 things

 

1 floater suits will increase your chances of living 100 times if you go through the ice. It allows you to float and gian your composure to get out of the ice.

 

The next thing is until the ofsc clubs stake the trails I wouldnt venture out on the ice. The trails are not open if they are not safe.

[Greencoachdog]

Of course you have a better chance in a survival suit.

 

The thing is, these guys were MILES offshore. By the time they got out of water, and made a call, then had rescuers get out there......risking thier lives.....its already too late.

 

-20 with a north wind 20k+ that day will kill you in minutes!! Its hard enough just baiting a hook, let alone walking miles soaken wet....

 

Being prepared will help for sure, but sometimes, there's nothing you can do! They shouldn't have been out there, they were local guys, and knew the ice wasn't safe. I have a feeling they got turned around in the snow, and headed the wrong way. A compass might have saved their lives......we'll never know the whole story.

 

Sinker

 

Like Rick said, you have longer than you think for survival.

 

I'd hate to know that I lived somewhere that they didn't have a rescue helicopter for emergencies such as this.

You don't want to walk, stay put! Huddle together for body warmth. Turn on your strobes and rescue beacons! Even a small chance is better than no chance at all!!! Learn survival tactics if you're going to be foolish enough to be out on thin ice.

 

Watch the Sticky at the top of the main page, you might learn something!

[Sinker]

Its a whole lot easier to stay off ice that isn't safe!!

 

That's how I play the game anyways!!

 

A float suit will help you get out, and will keep you warm for a limited time frame. In weather like these guys had......there was no chance for them to make it!

 

Have you been in the water when its 20 below with a good strong wind? I'd bet I couldn't even dial a cell phone, let alone get it out of my suit and a sealed ziploc bag!!!! You'd never get the zipper undone!

 

Sinker