Ontario Stay-at-Home Order - can we go fishing, or not?

[DanD]

With my garage being an "essential" service, my shop is allowed to be open. (Not that I'm making money being open; it's so slow I can barely cover my tech's wages) We are taking every possible precaution that I/we can. We all wear masks at all times; that we're here. I have a limit of three people in my front office/waiting room. I've had to ask a number of people to leave my reception area, because they were not wearing a face covering/mask. There is a plexiglass barrier at the customer counter. Signs on the entrance door; telling people about the mask and the number of people allowed in at any one time. (That no one ever seems to read) I've also began taking customer's temperatures with a lazar type, touch less forehead thermometer; when they come . Record that info with their name, Phone number, time, their temp and the date. If they have a fever we ask them to leave and go get tested for covid, We all use disposable medical type gloves and change them for every vehicle that we're working on.  Wipe ignition key, ignition lock, steering wheel and whatever we need to touch that we're working on inside the vehicle; with a sanitizing cloth. The temperature taking and recording of that data is a suggestion from the legal department (Lawyer) at my wife's work place. The Covid cops will like to see us doing that; that's so they can contact these people, making sure they've gone for testing. I was concerned that people wouldn't like having their temp taken; but to my surprise they (so far) seem fine with it. So what else is there to do? It's a lot more expense and time doing what we are and then not knowing if we're helping with cutting the spread?

Oh Man I Hate These Times!

Dan. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by DanD

[RickOnt]

[Terry]

That’s good I heard on the radio they were having a meet and the agenda was closing the trails 

[AKRISONER]

If you saw what went on at the rest stop at seguin trail this weekend you’d understand why that garbage got shut down immediately. Unfortunately it seems too many in the snowmobile crowd and honestly the fishing crowd are the type that think this is a “plandemic” honestly it feels like we unfortunately have a disproportionate number of people that fall into this category

crowds of out of towners meeting up with their buddies, no masks, no distancing, carrying on without a care in the world has the locals up there ticked off..and honestly it’s rightfully so.

[Terry]

Yeah it’s too bad , but lazy of the local health unit shut it down rather then enforcing the rules 

I would like to see everyone not obey the law charged and leave to people who are following the lock down rules

[SirCranksalot]

1 hour ago, Terry said:

Yeah it’s too bad , but lazy of the local health unit shut it down rather then enforcing the rules 

I would like to see everyone not obey the law charged and leave to people who are following the lock down rules

I agree. IMO, if the old rules had been enforced we would not be in the state we are in now. We have seen Ford go on and on but not using his authority to see that the blatant violators were punished---Trinity Bellwoods etc etc. Brampton seemed to be an exception.

[Crimsongulf]

On 1/19/2021 at 9:18 AM, Headhunter said:

Well, none of the above mentioned will get us out of this sooner than later. Suggesting that humans use "common sense", something that is obviously in short supply these days is yet another way to extend these stay at home orders.

Not listening to people who are trained, educated and experienced because of a presumed right to do as we please, is simply ignorant. No one on this board can say with impunity that they are not an asymptomatic carrier. 

We have a retirement home just down the road from our house. There are 100 residents in the home. As of yesterday, half of the residence have tested positive, ten have died and 30 staff are infected. The disease did not walk in the front by it's self. Most of the folks in the home are war vets who IMHO deserve better than to die from what others perceive to be "common sense". Unless you are an expert in communicable diseases, you don't get to suggest what "common sense is; your just fooling yourselves and potentially folks who are vulnerable.

Ignoring the problem has got us to where we are now. I get the feeling that many here haven't had this plague hit them personally. I bet that when it does, some of these attitudes will flip pretty quick.

HH

I merely stated my thoughts, but to your point about common sense, that is human nature it is sort of like religion and morality.

You can't legislate morality nor can you legislate covid rules and enforce them.  You can try to do both but your mileage will vary.

Like I said on our trips we followed all protocol and will do the same when we return in May.  Can't do anymore than that.

[SirCranksalot]

I have no prob with those who bend the rules a little bit while taking reasonable measures----not everybody drives 100 km or below on the 401. Where I have a prob is with those who blatantly defy the rules, refuse to wear masks, have big parties etc. What really burns is when they get off with a slap on the wrists or nothing at all as happened at Trinity Bellwoods etc.

 

[Crimsongulf]

4 minutes ago, SirCranksalot said:

I have no prob with those who bend the rules a little bit while taking reasonable measures----not everybody drives 100 km or below on the 401. Where I have a prob is with those who blatantly defy the rules, refuse to wear masks, have big parties etc. What really burns is when they get off with a slap on the wrists or nothing at all as happened at Trinity Bellwoods etc.

 

I totally agree with you, but unfortunately there will always be those that defy the rules and nothing is going to change that.  I am not defending it, just being realistic about the human race. 

[jonasdry]

On 1/20/2021 at 1:09 PM, SirCranksalot said:

I have no prob with those who bend the rules a little bit while taking reasonable measures----not everybody drives 100 km or below on the 401. Where I have a prob is with those who blatantly defy the rules, refuse to wear masks, have big parties etc. What really burns is when they get off with a slap on the wrists or nothing at all as happened at Trinity Bellwoods etc.

 

Wearing a mask is not a rule. 

People need to use common sense though. As individuals we only have a few laws that really affect us. Social gathering limits are a law. Staying out of closed facilities is a law. Everything else is legal. We can travel, we can participate in activities. We can choose not to wear a mask, but with the expectation that we may not be allowed into facilities that require a mask be worn. We can go to other peoples houses.

Social distancing and proper sanitization is all that is needed to squash this thing. Unfortunately most people can't stay away from others in populated areas.

[passthepitonspete]

My girlfriend and I went up north to North Bay on the weekend to go ice climbing.  Across the street from our motel, we could see scores of ice huts all over Lake Nippissing.  

We didn't see any police presence, didn't see anyone stopped for anything. Traffic was lighter than normal but still fairly constant. 

If you want to go ice fishing, you should go ice fishing.  It is legit outdoor exercise. 

[woodenboater]

7 hours ago, jonasdry said:

Social distancing and proper sanitization is all that is needed to squash this thing. Unfortunately most people can't stay away from others in populated areas.

Going to have to respectfully disagree.These two measures are part of the safety trifecta we need to adhere to. Masking is what has proven (along with strong test and trace) to be one measure that is proven to work (based on numbers etc). All you need to do is look at South Korea and Taiwan. Aerosols are the big factor and masks are the first line of defense against aerosols. Stay safe everyone

[woodenboater]

and how about these tools who flew to Whitehorse, then chartered a plane to get them to a remote community, where they lied their way to a shot of Moderna. They got caught after the jab, but the fine was a spit in the ocean for them. I truly hope they get more than a measly fine for putting a remote community at risk, and for taking two shots out of the community.  There's a special place in hell for these two.

 

https://www.yukon-news.com/news/former-ceo-of-great-canadian-gaming-actress-charged-after-flying-to-beaver-creek-for-covid-19-vaccine/

[akaShag]

Self-entitled rich dickweeds. 

[woodenboater]

5 minutes ago, akaShag said:

Self-entitled rich dickweeds. 

I wanted to use much stronger language but the software here filters it out...wisely

[SirCranksalot]

Words failme----at least the printable ones do! How the %%%$$$ do these scumbags sleep at night?

 

[akaShag]

54 minutes ago, SirCranksalot said:

Words failme----at least the printable ones do! How the %%%$$$ do these scumbags sleep at night?

 

They are rich and entitled.  And people like that are used to getting their own way, and don't consider other folks to be as important as them........

[jonasdry]

16 hours ago, woodenboater said:

Going to have to respectfully disagree.These two measures are part of the safety trifecta we need to adhere to. Masking is what has proven (along with strong test and trace) to be one measure that is proven to work (based on numbers etc). All you need to do is look at South Korea and Taiwan. Aerosols are the big factor and masks are the first line of defense against aerosols. Stay safe everyone

Going to have to respectfully disagree here as cloth masks and procedure masks do not stop aerosols. We take approximately 30,000 breathes per day. How many of those breathes are aerosol only? Well over 99%. It is proven, confirmed by pretty much every source that cloth masks and procedure masks do not trap aerosols. If you believe the narrative of the media that these "masks" do anything significant, you are being brainwashed.

edit to add... have a look at the first PDF link and then read the second link. This is the truth about masks, no matter what you see of hear on the news/interwebs.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInfographic-508.pdf

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-surgical-masks-and-face-masks

 

While a surgical mask may be effective in blocking splashes and large-particle droplets, a face mask, by design, does not filter or block very small particles in the air that may be transmitted by coughs, sneezes, or certain medical procedures. Surgical masks also do not provide complete protection from germs and other contaminants because of the loose fit between the surface of the mask and your face.

Edited January 26, 2021 by jonasdry

[Headhunter]

Please explain to me then, why surgeons wear masks when performing procedures. I'm pretty sure it's not for the looks.

Is it not to stop their aerosols from contaminating their patient? Does it not make sense that wearing a mask will inhibit the release of aerosols? Does it get everything, well obviously not.

I won't go into the "brainwashing" as it will likely end with this thread getting locked.

HH

[AKRISONER]

38 minutes ago, jonasdry said:

Going to have to respectfully disagree here as cloth masks and procedure masks do not stop aerosols. We take approximately 30,000 breathes per day. How many of those breathes are aerosol only? Well over 99%. It is proven, confirmed by pretty much every source that cloth masks and procedure masks do not trap aerosols. If you believe the narrative of the media that these "masks" do anything significant, you are being brainwashed.

edit to add... have a look at the first PDF link and then read the second link. This is the truth about masks, no matter what you see of hear on the news/interwebs.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInfographic-508.pdf

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-surgical-masks-and-face-masks

 

While a surgical mask may be effective in blocking splashes and large-particle droplets, a face mask, by design, does not filter or block very small particles in the air that may be transmitted by coughs, sneezes, or certain medical procedures. Surgical masks also do not provide complete protection from germs and other contaminants because of the loose fit between the surface of the mask and your face.

ill call what you are saying...selective "reading" so i will provide you with further information from the very source that you are using to try and tell us how masks are pointless.

Absolutely the mask is not a 100% effective at stopping you from contracting covid...obviously (duhhhhhhh)...but it is a preventative measure which has been shown to reduce its transmission.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fprevent-getting-sick%2Fcloth-face-cover.html

Seatbelts dont prevent 100% of automotive casualties either 

Edited January 26, 2021 by AKRISONER

[jonasdry]

12 minutes ago, Headhunter said:

Please explain to me then, why surgeons wear masks when performing procedures. I'm pretty sure it's not for the looks.

Is it not to stop their aerosols from contaminating their patient? Does it not make sense that wearing a mask will inhibit the release of aerosols? Does it get everything, well obviously not.

I won't go into the "brainwashing" as it will likely end with this thread getting locked.

HH

Procedure masks are used to stop big stuff coming out of a patient from entering the mouth/nose of the person performing the procedure. Nothing more, nothing less.

[jonasdry]

14 minutes ago, AKRISONER said:

ill call what you are saying...selective "reading" so i will provide you with further information from the very source that you are using to try and tell us how masks are pointless.

Absolutely the mask is not a 100% effective at stopping you from contracting covid...obviously (duhhhhhhh)...but it is a preventative measure which has been shown to reduce its transmission.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fprevent-getting-sick%2Fcloth-face-cover.html

Seatbelts dont prevent 100% of automotive casualties either 

Strawman argument. You can't prove something that doesn't happen. You're comparison to seatbelts is a far fetch as well. I have worked in many chemistry labs and plants throughout my career and not a single one of them deems a procedure mask or cloth mask as PPE. Find any scientist who works with biologicals and ask them if they trust cloth or procedure masks to protect them while working with contagious materials. Find a single one who will go on record as such.

 

Another edit... nowhere in your link does it say how much a cloth or procedure mask helps. I assert it's for less than 1% of all exhalation. Maybe you can provide a scientific based percentage of how much it blocks versus passes through. Again, do the math based on yourself. How many breathes do you take per day and how much of that is aerosol versus droplets? If you cough every other breathe (you have issues) but then you can come back and say 50% even though droplets are not 100% of a cough.

Edited January 26, 2021 by jonasdry

[Terry]

Well I’m no expert but I did stay at a holiday inn 

and it was -18 degrees out I had a mask on and breathing I could see may breathe leaving the mask and going a 6 inches out

I took the mask off and it was more like two feet or more my steamy breathe made it away from me   So I know it stopped a lot from spreading out and away from me

oh and their beds were comfortable 

[Headhunter]

Well, a simple google search will net you all the info you need re mask wearing.

Also, note that the number of colds/flu this year is way down. Is that a result of stay at home orders or masks or a combo of both? All I know for sure is that a lozenge company in PEI has had to lay off 30 staff because folks aren't buying cold lozenges.

I think I'll just keep wearing my mask.

HH

[AKRISONER]

just some fun infographics regarding mask mandates

 

If you want to really get into the science of it read this scientific article https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 

In summary, there is laboratory-based evidence that household masks have filtration capacity in the relevant particle size range, as well as efficacy in blocking aerosols and droplets from the wearer (67). That is, these masks help people keep their emissions to themselves. A consideration is that face masks with valves do not capture respiratory particles as efficiently, bypassing the filtration mechanism, and therefore offer less source control (84).

 

and another article from the University of California

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by AKRISONER