A tough week for our friends down south

[fishing n autograph]

No but reaching or a firearm escalated both situation.

 

I believe everything that's been going on has to do with a persons choices and their behaviour. You don't have the right to resist arrest you don't need to go around breaking the law and you don't point a firearm at a cop and expect anything but to be shot.

[Old Ironmaker]

No but reaching or a firearm escalated both situation.

 

I believe everything that's been going on has to do with a persons choices and their behaviour. You don't have the right to resist arrest you don't need to go around breaking the law and you don't point a firearm at a cop and expect anything but to be shot.

And if you do shoot a Cop expect to be blown up too. Just listening to Jim Richards on 1010 and it was said by an expert this afternoon that most all major cities in Ontario have explosives available for them to do just what the Police did in Dallas. Here is our negotiator, it's a pound of C-4 on a Robo Cop.

 

I listened to an interview today of the murderers parents. I have empathy for them as well. They lost a son and will have to live the rest of their lives knowing what that piece of excrement did.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Old Ironmaker

[manitoubass2]

And if you do shoot a Cop expect to be blown up too. Just listening to Jim Richards on 1010 and it was said by an expert this afternoon that most all major cities in Ontario have explosives available for them to do just what the Police did in Dallas. Here is our negotiator, it's a pound of C-4 on a Robo Cop.

Thats what I dont get???? How is that legal?

 

Even the deadliest criminals have a right to due process and a fair trial

[fishing n autograph]

He wasn't going to give himself up. Last person that tried to get near him was shot.

 

Obviously the use of explosives was questionable and the powers that be have to answer to their actions.

 

And in terms of the explosives they wouldn't be used that way in Canada. They are very small charges used to breach doors and set off larger explosives (IEDs and suspicious packages)

 

But I think the choice was to end it before more people were hurt.

Edited July 11, 2016 by FishnNAutographs

[fishing n autograph]

And if you do shoot a Cop expect to be blown up too. Just listening to Jim Richards on 1010 and it was said by an expert this afternoon that most all major cities in Ontario have explosives available for them to do just what the Police did in Dallas. Here is our negotiator, it's a pound of C-4 on a Robo Cop.

 

I listened to an interview today of the murderers parents. I have empathy for them as well. They lost a son and will have to live the rest of their lives knowing what that piece of excrement did.

He shot 11, and 2 civilians and killed 5 of them.....

[AKRISONER]

Thats what I dont get???? How is that legal?

 

Even the deadliest criminals have a right to due process and a fair trial

 

He made it very clear that his intent was to reingage the police in a fire fight. He threatened them and made it clear that his intent was further escalation of the violence and made it very clear that he had no intention of going peacfully. At that point theres no point is putting further police lives in jeapordy, the guy was already miraculously alive after the initial firefight. The police had already attempted to use deadly force but the bugger survived. No harm no foul IMO

Edited July 11, 2016 by AKRISONER

[manitoubass2]

 

He made it very clear that his intent was to reingage the police in a fire fight. He threatened them and made it clear that his intent was further escalation of the violence and made it very clear that he had no intention of going peacfully. At that point theres no point is putting further police lives in jeapordy, the guy was already miraculously alive after the initial firefight. The police had already attempted to use deadly force but the bugger survived. No harm no foul IMO

Please tell me how a stun grenade or something similar to disable the suspect wouldnt work?

[fishing n autograph]

Can't get close enough to even throw it.

 

He was a trained shooter and even the U.S. Reservists are trained to fight the effects of gas and flash bangs

 

The robot probably delivered the phone to the shooter and was already there watching him.

Edited July 11, 2016 by FishnNAutographs

[AKRISONER]

Please tell me how a stun grenade or something similar to disable the suspect wouldnt work?

 

sorry...how does stun grenading him and then shooting him change the scenario? The only change is that now you are relying on a swat team member to shoot the guy with the potential risk of the cultprit wearing a suicide vest or potentially getting a shot off at the cops. (he was a trained military man)

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but is there any way to incapacitate someone in an open environment aside from a direct blow to their head?

[manitoubass2]

Can't get close enough to even throw it.

 

He was a trained shooter and even the U.S. Reservists are trained to fight the effects of gas and flash bangs

 

The robot probably delivered the phone to the shooter and was already there watching him.

Good reminder! If a robot ever delivers me a phone, dont pick ut up lol

 

Good points though.

 

Just glad im not the one that makes that call

[Sinker]

A guy like that you use any force needed. Run him down with a car if you have to. He is standing there shooting at innocent people. He doesn't get a freakin trial. Kill the dude....like now. BOOM!

 

Man, the bleeding hearts are so thick these days. Stuff like this gets me very irritated.

 

S.

[manitoubass2]

 

sorry...how does stun grenading him and then shooting him change the scenario? The only change is that now you are relying on a swat team member to shoot the guy with the potential risk of the cultprit wearing a suicide vest or potentially getting a shot off at the cops. (he was a trained military man)

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but is there any way to incapacitate someone in an open environment aside from a direct blow to their head?

Same thing swat does here.

 

In our district weve had at least 5 standoffs in the last 10 years or so.

 

They simply wait you out.

 

Stand in a spot for 3 or 4 days without being able to move much and eventually they all (at least here) give up on their own

[Sinker]

It baffles me how you guys think this guy deserves anything but death. He just killed 5 cops, and wounded however many more.......take him out, yesterday!

 

 

S.

[fishing n autograph]

Good reminder! If a robot ever delivers me a phone, dont pick ut up lol

 

Good points though.

 

Just glad im not the one that makes that call

The phone didn't blow him up. Most of the robots have a single arm that looks like a jackhammer that carries an explosive charge in the end. My guess is that the drove the robot up to him and did a contact shot because it's not a powerful explosion

[Big Cliff]

No but reaching or a firearm escalated both situation.

 

I believe everything that's been going on has to do with a persons choices and their behaviour. You don't have the right to resist arrest you don't need to go around breaking the law and you don't point a firearm at a cop and expect anything but to be shot.

10 4 on that one!

[manitoubass2]

It baffles me how you guys think this guy deserves anything but death. He just killed 5 cops, and wounded however many more.......take him out, yesterday!

 

 

S.

Oh I certainly believe he deserves death. But thats not really how law works.

 

Heaven forbid you make a mistake one day and hit a cop car and kill him or an innocent family.

 

Because you deserve that same fate, as would I.

[Big Cliff]

It baffles me how you guys think this guy deserves anything but death. He just killed 5 cops, and wounded however many more.......take him out, yesterday!

 

 

S.

Doesn't matter if he killed one cop or one innocent person I totally agree take him out and save the tax payers a ton of money! Actually all they need to do is change the laws: Get caught carrying a gun without proper authorization 10 years, discharge an illegal fire arm; 20 years, kill someone with or without intent, Life! Second offence X3. No iff's ands or buts about it! Most of the people doing this sort of thing are career criminals that have been in and out of jail most of their lives.

 

Now when it comes to cop brutality; there are a few bad apples out there sure but in 70 years I have never had a cop pull his gun on me, I have never been beaten into the ground, (or beaten at all for that matter) I have never had reason to fear for my life or safety.

 

In fact just the opposite and in fact when I lived in French River I and my brother-in-laws stood sholder to sholder with a lone OPP officer, his name was Rod Mc xxxxxxx (won't post it openly) that was facing down 6 drunks looking to do him harm in the parking lot of the Champlain Hotel. He never did draw his side arm even prior to us stepping in. Perhaps things were just different then, people settled their differances with a fist fight then sat down and had a beer together.

[Sinker]

Oh I certainly believe he deserves death. But thats not really how law works.

 

Heaven forbid you make a mistake one day and hit a cop car and kill him or an innocent family.

 

Because you deserve that same fate, as would I.

That's apples to oranges, bud.

 

A dude intentionally shooting innocent people deserves death and nothing less. A car accident is totally different.

 

And the way the law works doesn't matter either when a guy is killing people. Do you think he cares about a fair trial?

 

I wish I could go back in time, because the way things are nowadays is a disgrace. The human race is so watered down, we are nothing but a parasite on the earth. Its sad!

 

S.

[Sinker]

Doesn't matter if he killed one cop or one innocent person I totally agree take him out and save the tax payers a ton of money! Actually all they need to do is change the laws: Get caught carrying a gun without proper authorization 10 years, discharge an illegal fire arm; 20 years, kill someone with or without intent, Life! Second offence X3. No iff's ands or buts about it! Most of the people doing this sort of thing are career criminals that have been in and out of jail most of their lives.

 

Now when it comes to cop brutality; there are a few bad apples out there sure but in 70 years I have never had a cop pull his gun on me, I have never been beaten into the ground, (or beaten at all for that matter) I have never had reason to fear for my life or safety.

 

In fact just the opposite and in fact when I lived in French River I and my brother-in-laws stood sholder to sholder with a lone OPP officer, his name was Rod Mc xxxxxxx (won't post it openly) that was facing down 6 drunks looking to do him harm in the parking lot of the Champlain Hotel. He never did draw his side arm even prior to us stepping in. Perhaps things were just different then, people settled their differances with a fist fight then sat down and had a beer together.

I knew you would agree, Cliff.

 

The justice system is a whole different JOKE. Like I said earlier, too many bleeding hearts. Oh, that poor murderer, what about his rights? Screw that CRAP. Bang, done. Simple.

 

I better bite my tongue now or I might hurt someones feelings. Gimme a break!!

 

S.

[Spiel]

A guy like that you use any force needed. Run him down with a car if you have to. He is standing there shooting at innocent people. He doesn't get a freakin trial. Kill the dude....like now. BOOM!

 

Man, the bleeding hearts are so thick these days. Stuff like this gets me very irritated.

 

S.

Again......

[manitoubass2]

I can agree with ya on that sinker!

[aplumma]

Everyone deserves their day in court. IF you want that day then make it possible to be arrested. Once you escalate it then the police escalate until you have made the decision to stop. At any time after he started his crime he could have thrown down his weapon and laid face down on the concrete and he wold be alive. Even after taking 5 lives he would still be alive. Once he disobeyed the command of lay down your weapon and as long as he did he did not want justice he wanted to kill. Some say wait him out? Why give him a chance to escape justice, kill more people, make bigger headlines??? Does anyone think that SWAT like killing? Does the sniper have to live with this on his conscious/ soul for the rest of his life? Have any of you ever talked to someone who has killed a person in there job defending innocents? Talk to a veteran about his tour if he did kill someone it will be a story that will be difficult at best and for some impossible to tell you about.

Many of the comments here are made from people who think they know or can imagine what it was like in the violence we have in the world but while they have a logical thought it fails to take in real life factors. "Just get rid of all handguns" ,"Fire all of the bad cops" these are simple logical thoughts that have no path in today's society to accomplish. We might as well say "make all handguns rust into dust" or "make all of the bad people stop being bad". I have found arguing with an armchair wizard is a waste of time. A discussion with a person who has lived or done and has common grounds is a chance to move ahead and improve a situation.

 

Art

[Old Ironmaker]

The Dallas Police Chief said today that if the same circumstances were faced tomorrow he would make the same decision to blow the guy to Kingdome Come. The perpetrator was in a position that would put his people in harms way to get a shot off. The guy made it absolutely clear he wasn't about to surrender before he killed more Police. He told them he had bombs planted in many locations in Dallas set to go off. That's what surprised me when I heard the blast on CNN during the stand off in the wee morning hours. If he indeed had bombs planted killing him before they could get that info from him could be tragic. It was clear to Police he was toying with them for the 2 hour stand off. I don't think he saw that coming. A pound of C-4 was used, I don't know if that's a lot, it sure sounds like it. I support the Chiefs decision 100%. He is impressive to say the least.

 

Kill innocent people and threaten to kill more and you aren't living to tell about it. Even a nut bar may think twice about it.

[aplumma]

I was sent this and it is well worth the time reading it.

Thank you Officer Jay Stalien Author of the cut and paste below.

I have come to realize something that is still hard for me to understand to this day. The following may be a shock to some coming from an African American, but the mere fact that it may be shocking to some is prima facie evidence of the sad state of affairs that we are in as Humans.

I used to be so torn inside growing up. Here I am, a young African-American born and raised in Brooklyn, NY wanting to be a cop. I watched and lived through the crime that took place in the hood. My own black people killing others over nothing. Crack heads and heroin addicts lined the lobby of my building as I shuffled around them to make my way to our 1 bedroom apartment with 6 of us living inside. I used to be woken up in the middle of the night by the sound of gun fire, only to look outside and see that it was 2 African Americans shooting at each other.

It never sat right with me. I wanted to help my community and stop watching the blood of African Americans spilled on the street at the hands of a fellow black man. I became a cop because black lives in my community, along with ALL lives, mattered to me, and wanted to help stop the bloodshed.

As time went by in my law enforcement career, I quickly began to realize something. I remember the countless times I stood 2 inches from a young black man, around my age, laying on his back, gasping for air as blood filled his lungs. I remember them bleeding profusely with the unforgettable smell of deoxygenated dark red blood in the air, as it leaked from the bullet holes in his body on to the hot sidewalk on a summer day. I remember the countless family members who attacked me, spit on me, cursed me out, as I put up crime scene tape to cordon off the crime scene, yelling and screaming out of pain and anger at the sight of their loved ones taking their last breath. I never took it personally, I knew they were hurting. I remember the countless times I had to order new uniforms, because the ones I had on, were bloody from the blood of another black victim…of black on black crime. I remember the countless times I got back in my patrol car, distraught after having watched another black male die in front me, having to start my preliminary report something like this:

Suspect- Black/ Male, Victim-Black /Male.

I remember the countless times I canvassed the area afterwards, and asked everyone “did you see who did it”, and the popular response from the very same family members was always, “damn the Police, I ain't no snitch, Im gonna take care of this myself". This happened every single time, every single homicide, black on black, and then my realization became clearer.

I woke up every morning, put my freshly pressed uniform on, shined my badge, functioned checked my weapon, kissed my wife and kid, and waited for my wife to say the same thing she always does before I leave, “Make sure you come back home to us”. I always replied, “I will”, but the truth was I was never sure if I would. I almost lost my life on this job, and every call, every stop, every moment that I had this uniform on, was another possibility for me to almost lose my life again. I was a target in the very community I swore to protect, the very community I wanted to help. As a matter of fact, they hated my very presence. They called me “Uncle Tom”, and “wanna be white boy”, and I couldn’t understand why. My own fellow black men and women attacking me, wishing for my death, wishing for the death of my family. I was so confused, so torn, I couldn’t understand why my own black people would turn against me, when every time they called …I was there. Every time someone died….I was there. Every time they were going through one of the worst moments in their lives…I was there. So why was I the enemy? I dove deep into that question…Why was I the enemy? Then my realization became clearer.

I spoke to members of the community and listened to some of the complaints as to why they hated cops. I then did research on the facts. I also presented facts to these members of the community, and listened to their complaints in response. This is what I learned:

Complaint: Police always targeting us, they always messing with the black man.

Fact: A city where the majority of citizens are black (Baltimore for example) …will ALWAYS have a higher rate of black people getting arrested, it will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting stopped, and will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting killed, and the reason why is because a city with those characteristics will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks committing crime. The statistics will follow the same trend for Asians if you go to China, for Hispanics if you go to Puerto Rico, for whites if you go to Russia, and the list goes on. It’s called Demographics

Complaint: More black people get arrested than white boys.

Fact: Black People commit a grossly disproportionate amount of crime. Data from the FBI shows that Nationwide, Blacks committed 5,173 homicides in 2014, whites committed 4,367. Chicago’s death toll is almost equal to that of both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, combined. Chicago’s death toll from 2001–November, 26 2015 stands at 7,401. The combined total deaths during Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003-2015: 4,815) and Operation Enduring Freedom/Afghanistan (2001-2015: 3,506), total 8,321.

Complaint: Blacks are the only ones getting killed by police, or they are killed more.

Fact: As of July 2016, the breakdown of the number of US Citizens killed by Police this year is, 238 White people killed, 123 Black people killed, 79 Hispanics, 69 other/or unknown race.

Fact: Black people kill more other blacks than Police do, and there are only protest and outrage when a cop kills a black man. University of Toledo criminologist Dr. Richard R. Johnson examined the latest crime data from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports and Centers for Disease Control and found that an average of 4,472 black men were killed by other black men annually between Jan. 1, 2009, and Dec. 31, 2012. Professor Johnson’s research further concluded that 112 black men died from both justified and unjustified police-involved killings annually during this same period.

Complaint: Well we already doing a good job of killing ourselves, we don’t need the Police to do it. Besides they should know better.

The more I listened, the more I realized. The more I researched, the more I realized. I would ask questions, and would only get emotional responses & inferences based on no facts at all. The more killing I saw, the more tragedy, the more savagery, the more violence, the more loss of life of a black man at the hands of another black man….the more I realized.

I haven’t slept well in the past few nights. Heartbreak weighs me down, rage flows through my veins, and tears fills my eyes. I watched my fellow officers assassinated on live television, and the images of them laying on the ground are seared into my brain forever. I couldn’t help but wonder if it had been me, a black man, a black cop, on TV, assassinated, laying on the ground dead,..would my friends and family still think black lives mattered? Would my life have mattered? Would they make t-shirts in remembrance of me? Would they go on tv and protest violence? Would they even make a Facebook post, or share a post in reference to my death?

All of my realizations came to this conclusion. Black Lives do not matter to most black people. Only the lives that make the national news matter to them. Only the lives that are taken at the hands of cops or white people, matter. The other thousands of lives lost, the other black souls that I along with every cop, have seen taken at the hands of other blacks, do not matter. Their deaths are unnoticed, accepted as the “norm”, and swept underneath the rug by the very people who claim and post “black lives matter”. I realized that this country is full of ignorance, where an educated individual will watch the ratings-driven news media, and watch a couple YouTube video clips, and then come to the conclusion that they have all the knowledge they need to have in order to know what it feels like to have a bullet proof vest as part of your office equipment, “Stay Alive” as part of your daily to do list, and having insurance for your health insurance because of the high rate of death in your profession. They watch a couple videos and then they magically know in 2 minutes 35 seconds, how you are supposed to handle a violent encounter, which took you 6 months of Academy training, 2 – 3 months of field training, and countless years of blood, sweat, tears and broken bones experiencing violent encounters and fine tuning your execution of the Use of Force Continuum. I realized that there are even cops, COPS, duly sworn law enforcement officers, who are supposed to be decent investigators, who will publicly go on the media and call other white cops racist and KKK, based on a video clip that they watched thousands of miles away, which was filmed after the fact, based on a case where the details aren’t even known yet and the investigation hasn’t even begun. I realized that most in the African American community refuse to look at solving the bigger problem that I see and deal with every day, which is black on black crime taking hundreds of innocent black lives each year, and instead focus on the 9 questionable deaths of black men, where some were in the act of committing crimes. I realized that they value the life of a Sex Offender and Convicted Felon, [who was in the act of committing multiple felonies: felon in possession of a firearm-FELONY, brandishing and threatening a homeless man with a gun-Aggravated Assault in Florida: FELONY, who resisted officers who first tried to taze him, and WAS NOT RESTRAINED, who can be clearly seen in one of the videos raising his right shoulder, then shooting it down towards the right side of his body exactly where the firearm was located and recovered] more than the lives of the innocent cops who were assassinated in Dallas protecting the very people that hated them the most. I realized that they refuse to believe that most cops acknowledge that there are Bad cops who should have never been given a badge & gun, who are chicken crap and will shoot a cockroach if it crawls at them too fast, who never worked in the hood and may be intimidated. That most cops dread the thought of having to shoot someone, and never see the turmoil and mental anguish that a cop goes through after having to kill someone to save his own life. Instead they believe that we are all blood thirsty killers, because the media says so, even though the numbers prove otherwise. I realize that they truly feel as if the death of cops will help people realize the false narrative that Black Lives Matter, when all it will do is take their movement two steps backwards and label them domestic terrorist. I realized that some of these people, who say Black Lives Matter, are full of hate and racism. Hate for cops, because of the false narrative that more black people are targeted and killed. Racism against white people, for a tragedy that began 100’s of years ago, when most of the white people today weren’t even born yet. I realized that some in the African American community’s idea of “Justice” is the prosecution of ANY and EVERY cop or white man that kills or is believed to have killed a black man, no matter what the circumstances are. I realized the African American community refuses to look within to solve its major issues, and instead makes excuses and looks outside for solutions. I realized that a lot of people in the African American community lead with hate, instead of love. Division instead of Unity. Turmoil and rioting, instead of Peace. I realized that they have become the very entity that they claim they are fighting against.

I realized that the very reasons I became a cop, are the very reasons my own people hate me, and now in this toxic hateful racially charged political climate, I am now more likely to die,... and it is still hard for me to understand…. to this day.

Art

[manitoubass2]

Thats a powerful statement

Edited July 11, 2016 by manitoubass2