Workin' Down @ The Lake

[DRIFTER_016]

Plenty of firewood. The spruce up here is like hardwood as it's so old and the rings so tight.

Too much like work and most wood stoves are down to ashes by morning. Don't want to wake up and have to work on the fire before I've even had a pee and a coffee!!! 

The pellet stove I have will run 24-36 hours on a full hopper of pellets.

It's easy to get the pellets out to the cabin and I have more than enough room to store a full years worth plus some extra in case. When I end up moving out there for my retirement I will have a road from the lake to the cabin and will beable to drive right to the basement doors to unload. 

Between now and retirement I'll easily be able to get by on 2 skids a year.

It will be way less work than cutting and chopping trees. Will be much less mess too.   

[16 Footer]

Will the pellet stove give the same heat as a wood stove? What R value are you insulating your cabin?

[DRIFTER_016]

7 hours ago, 16 Footer said:

Will the pellet stove give the same heat as a wood stove? What R value are you insulating your cabin?

The stove's output is 42,000 BTU's which is a couple of thousand more than a Blaze King Princess wood stove.

They rund about the same time on high.

Insulation is R40 in the floor, R24 in the walls and R60 in the ceiling.

[Old Ironmaker]

You didn't scrimp on insulation Big Dave. Is the pellet stove your only source of heat?

[DRIFTER_016]

8 minutes ago, Old Ironmaker said:

You didn't scrimp on insulation Big Dave. Is the pellet stove your only source of heat?

I may have a small propane unit in the laundry room and will have a 20,000-30,000 BTU propane unit in the basement to keep the water lines and pumps from freezing. Also to keep the shop warm for playing with my toys.

[Old Ironmaker]

When I reno'd the little lake front cottage I didn't put enough insulation in. It was only supposed to be 3 season and a few winter weekends. R-13 walls, R24 ceiling and R 40 floors. Up to 40% heat loss is through the floors. Many windows, more windows than walls I bet. Heat loss calculation said 85,000 BTU's required. We have a 45K BTU gas fireplace that did OK for 17 years but needed 2 of those oil electric heaters in the front or is it back, the front to me is the lake side. Anyway I installed duct work and a hi-eff 85,000 BTU NG furnace last winter. Now it's warm during a lake effect storm. Hydro bill is about 60% less now. It really wasn't ridiculous before. 200 bucks in winter months, we have gas stove, water heater and dryer. No stand alone freezers or central A/C, 2 portables did it all, putting in central air next month.  You will find out what you will need next winter which starts when? August I am told.

[DRIFTER_016]

22 minutes ago, Old Ironmaker said:

When I reno'd the little lake front cottage I didn't put enough insulation in. It was only supposed to be 3 season and a few winter weekends. R-13 walls, R24 ceiling and R 40 floors. Up to 40% heat loss is through the floors. Many windows, more windows than walls I bet. Heat loss calculation said 85,000 BTU's required. We have a 45K BTU gas fireplace that did OK for 17 years but needed 2 of those oil electric heaters in the front or is it back, the front to me is the lake side. Anyway I installed duct work and a hi-eff 85,000 BTU NG furnace last winter. Now it's warm during a lake effect storm. Hydro bill is about 60% less now. It really wasn't ridiculous before. 200 bucks in winter months, we have gas stove, water heater and dryer. No stand alone freezers or central A/C, 2 portables did it all, putting in central air next month.  You will find out what you will need next winter which starts when? August I am told.

I won't find out until I do all the electrical, plumbing and insulation.

That gets done in 2019. 

My neighbors cabin is about the same square footage and they heat it with a 30,000 BTU propane unit.

They run it wide open though, but their pace is really toasty.

Edited March 13, 2018 by DRIFTER_016

[DRIFTER_016]

Back out at the cabin again this weekend. 
Took out a bunch of stuff including the window for my washroom.
Even got it installed.
Makes a big difference with all the natural light it lets in.

Moved my kitchen away from the stairs and into the shower area in the washroom so I could put the pellet stove in it's location to see how it fits and looks.
Fits good. 
Looks good!!!  

 

[Old Ironmaker]

Dave I have 2 things to say about your future insulation 1) Thermal Break. 2) Closed cell expanding foam.

The stove looks great there. I know a guy out here on the lakefront that uses the pellet stove as his main heat source for 2000 ftsq and loves it. No vaulted ceilings though, a big factor. Not all of us can fall, cut, split, buck and haul in cordwood once the body decides to retire too. My back is so screwed up now I have a problem lifting a plastic garbage can with 2 bags into the back of the truck. I have to buy 12 packs of brown pops now, a 24 is too much to carry. Vodka and Cognac is much more effective by volume weight than beer anyway.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Old Ironmaker

[DRIFTER_016]

12 hours ago, Old Ironmaker said:

 2) Closed cell expanding foam.

The biggest problem with this is cost and being able to get the equipment close enough to the work site to do it.

I have the 2 part foam kit to do all the tight voids and headers, but to get enough to do the entire cabin would cost over $10K to do it that way. To get a commercial insulator to come and spray Walltite ECO would be difficult at best and most likely impossible.

I could get a road plowed into the shore from the ice road but they would still be 200' from the cabin and I'm not sure if they could spray from that far away especially when the temp are below freezing. They are also expensive.

Batt insulation for the walls and vaulted portion of the ceiling and most likely blown in for the flat section is the way it's going to be. Along with good vapor barrier, tuck tape and acoustic sealer.

FYI, it was beautiful in the cabin this weekend even without insulation. At least with the sun streaming in the front windows.  

[mikeh]

how are the pellet stoves vented? how the heck would it heat the whole house?we are looking at cottages and homes and like the idea for heat

Edited March 19, 2018 by mikeh

[Old Ironmaker]

Dave I figured your accessibility to the home would be an issue for closed cell equipment. Cost is a big consideration as well. At my age the ROI is something I need to take into consideration if I ever build again. A few years ago I opted to pass on the lifetime warranty on a steel roof. At 85 years old he last thing I would worry about is replacing the architectural shingles. For my 20 and 30 something Godchildren, nieces and nephews it matters when the ROI kicks in.

I always tell the guys do not scrimp on the Tuck Tape, install the vapour barrier properly using acoustic sealant at the sills. Make the building envelope as tight as possible. No one is going to suffocate for lack of O2. An improperly sealed dwelling is like going to all the trouble and expense of insulating properly then opening the front door and leave it open all year. Almost the same goes for a wall of cheap windows. The last time I checked a pane of glass is R-3 max. It's been a while.

You know what you are doing big guy.

As far as the question re: venting CO from the pellet stove the 1 I have seen has a stack, it not only vents CO it provides some ambient heat from the waste gas.  I always ask HVAC folks and Building Inspectors, when I have all 5 gas burners going on the stove and oven cooking the Bird, where does the CO go? No exterior hood vent here. The question is usually met with silence.

[DRIFTER_016]

2 hours ago, mikeh said:

how are the pellet stoves vented? how the heck would it heat the whole house?we are looking at cottages and homes and like the idea for heat

Pellet stoves are vented usually with 4" double walled stainless vent pipe. Mine will vent straight from the stove through the ceiling using a metal insulated box through the insulation zone. There will be 6" double walled stainless pipe connected to the box abd running through the roof. The 4" will reside inside the 6" pipe. There will be a chimney cap and flashing that covers both pipes. This is to conform to code for WETT certification.

The cabin is 24'X36' open concept easy to heat with a wood or pellet stove especially when centrally located.

There will be a 5' ceiling fan to move the air around as well as a convection fan on the stove.

Where you are connected to the grid a regular pellet stove features a built in fan to move the air but they also have blowers in the chimney and an auger to move the pellets into the burn chamber. All of this craps out when the power is out.

[Tom S]

2 hours ago, Old Ironmaker said:

Dave I figured your accessibility to the home would be an issue for closed cell equipment. Cost is a big consideration as well. At my age the ROI is something I need to take into consideration if I ever build again. A few years ago I opted to pass on the lifetime warranty on a steel roof. At 85 years old he last thing I would worry about is replacing the architectural shingles. For my 20 and 30 something Godchildren, nieces and nephews it matters when the ROI kicks in.

I always tell the guys do not scrimp on the Tuck Tape, install the vapour barrier properly using acoustic sealant at the sills. Make the building envelope as tight as possible. No one is going to suffocate for lack of O2. An improperly sealed dwelling is like going to all the trouble and expense of insulating properly then opening the front door and leave it open all year. Almost the same goes for a wall of cheap windows. The last time I checked a pane of glass is R-3 max. It's been a while.

You know what you are doing big guy.

As far as the question re: venting CO from the pellet stove the 1 I have seen has a stack, it not only vents CO it provides some ambient heat from the waste gas.  I always ask HVAC folks and Building Inspectors, when I have all 5 gas burners going on the stove and oven cooking the Bird, where does the CO go? No exterior hood vent here. The question is usually met with silence.

A tight building envelope is great, but you do need to let that building breathe somehow. To tight of an envelope can cause major humidity issues, plus smells and sickness can become trapped in the house. The trick is to have a tight envelope and a Heat Recovery Ventilator, which will bring fresh air into the house while preheating it with the exhaust air to improve efficiency. I believe they are now code on new builds in Ontario.

Your stove puts out ~7,000 BTU per burner, so call it 35,000 BTU if everything is cranked up full. Your furnace is ~100,000 BTU. Lots more CO coming off the furnace, and because it's running through the day the CO will build up. You typically run a stove for 1-2 hours a day, so the CO is much less and won't build up over time to a dangerous level. Even when cooking all day you'll probably have less overall CO buildup than the furnace would over a couple hours.

[Raf]

4 hours ago, mikeh said:

how are the pellet stoves vented? how the heck would it heat the whole house?we are looking at cottages and homes and like the idea for heat

we have a wood stove in the basement of our backsplit.  while not NWT (just west of orangeville), it does the job of keeping the house warm without running the furnace until it gets to -25 or so.  ceiling fans help move the air around. 

what i find works really well is to take advantage of convection (warm air rises, cool air falls) by placing a fan on ground level of the floor and pointing it down into the basement.  This accelerates convection by forcing cold air into the room with the wood stove, displacing the hot air in that room, and the hot air has no place to go but right back up the stairs along the ceiling.  you can see this by placing a piece of paper at the bottom -of the landing even with the fan off you will see the cold air going into the basement and, at the top of the landing, the hot air returning.

[Sinker]

On 3/19/2018 at 7:25 PM, Raf said:

we have a wood stove in the basement of our backsplit.  while not NWT (just west of orangeville), it does the job of keeping the house warm without running the furnace until it gets to -25 or so.  ceiling fans help move the air around. 

what i find works really well is to take advantage of convection (warm air rises, cool air falls) by placing a fan on ground level of the floor and pointing it down into the basement.  This accelerates convection by forcing cold air into the room with the wood stove, displacing the hot air in that room, and the hot air has no place to go but right back up the stairs along the ceiling.  you can see this by placing a piece of paper at the bottom -of the landing even with the fan off you will see the cold air going into the basement and, at the top of the landing, the hot air returning.

I do the exact same thing at my place. Also a split level with a woodstove in the basement. My furnace rarely kicks in if the fire is going. 

[DRIFTER_016]

Just noticed that there were 666 posts in this thread.

Gotta fix that post haste!!!  

Was out at the cabin doing a little work today. The temps are getting up into the minus single digits and the sun is shining.

Took out some lumber and all the chimney pieces for my stove. Got the cement board installed but have to wait for above freezing temps to do the tiling of the hearth. Then I can get the stove all installed although it will need to be removed when I install the posts for the stair railings and the river rock veneer behind the stove. That's a couple of years out.

They sure don't give the chimney fixin's away. Stuff is uber spendy.

I've got $1,200 into this pile of chimney and duct work.

Oh well, at least I'll have heat. 

[akaShag]

667.

[DRIFTER_016]

Got out today.

Was beautiful out but I got a bit of a sunburn with the mile high blue skies and reflection off the snow.

The wind though....................... 

Took out the replacement front window for the one that was messed up at the manufacturer.

Got it all installed as well.

Plus I got 2,400#'s of pellets for the stove out to the cabin.

Gonna chill and watch hockey tomorrow but will get out and do some work next weekend.

Still got a few weeks before the shorelines go away. 

[akaShag]

Warmer today in Yellowknife than down here in the Banana Belt!!!

 

Doug

[DRIFTER_016]

1 hour ago, akaShag said:

Warmer today in Yellowknife than down here in the Banana Belt!!!

 

Doug

Yep.

Enjoy your ice storm. 

[akaShag]

I was here for the BIG ice storm of 1998 and it was a doozy.  I hear the forecasters are saying this one could be on that same magnitude.  That would NOT be good.................

Doug

[DRIFTER_016]

Been a rough week.
Bilge pump float switch stuck and killed the battery, storm then sunk the boat.
Water in the fuel meant a tow back to the dock at the end of it all.
Then the truck battery was dead.  ?

A few pics from the week.

Front done.

Scaffolding set up on North wall.

UH OH!!   ?

North wall done.

The ride home.  ?

[Jds63]

On the plus side you have an absolutely incredible cabin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[akaShag]

Crappy luck there, Dave, but yes the cabin is looking spectacular!

Is that a wasp nest in the "oh crap" photo?

 

Doug