Health Minister outraged by SCofC pot edibles ruling. NF

[Dutch01]

"In fact, every glyphosate-based herbicide on the market meets the rigorous standards set by regulatory and health authorities to protect human health. Standards that we paid good money to your politicians to set for us"

 

Fixed that for Monsanto.....

 

For those that really want to know why Glyphosate doesn't belong in our food I highly recommend this short video:

 

Engineered food and your health: the nutritional status of GMOs

Edited June 16, 2015 by Dutch01

[Andy]

Glysophate is a herbicide. Nionics are pesticides. The two are never mixed together in a tank mix. They have two very different purposes and methods of use.

[Dutch01]

Glysophate is a herbicide. Nionics are pesticides. The two are never mixed together in a tank mix. They have two very different purposes and methods of use.

 

By mixed, I was talking about both chemicals being applied to the same fields.

 

Did you even watch the video?

Edited June 16, 2015 by Dutch01

[GbayGiant]

Monsanto hates this guy and for good reason.

 

http://www.ewao.com/a/1-he-holds-the-patent-that-could-destroy-monsanto-and-change-the-world

[Andy]

Oh yeah, I watched the video.

I didn't know that a bushel of corn now weighs 54 lbs. Actually, a standard bushel of corn still weighs 56 lbs. That's what corn should weigh for a farmer to get paid for grade 2 corn. If your bushel weight is less than 56 lbs, you will likely receive a discounted price. Bushel weight is impacted every year by many factors, factors like planting date, fertility levels, heat units received and plant maturity. Some years the corn weighs heavy, some years light.

[John Bacon]

There has never been a known case of anyone overdosing and dying from cannabis.

 

That does not mean that it does not cause harm when smoked on a regular basis over a long time period.

 

I have never heard of anyone dying because the smoked too many cigarettes at once. However, there are pleny people who have died from the long term effects of smoking a pack a day.

 

Do you consider water to be hazardess to your health? There are known cases of people overdosing and dying from water. Drinking several litres of water in a short time period can be fatal because your body cannot deal with that much water in a short time frame. However, drinking reasonable quantities everyday is not only harmless, but necessary for survival.

 

I don't think that measuring the amount of a substance required to cause a fatal overdose is particularily relevant to indicate the health effects of long term consumption.

 

Having said that, I still support legalization. Adults can make their own choices; even when those are not good for them. But, lets not pretend that it is harmless.

[Rod Caster]

Why would anyone surprise by Health Minister outraged by SC of C pot edibles ruling?

 

Her professional qualifications are columnist, communication consultant, policy analyst, public policy consultant. Nowhere in her professional qualifications or experience she comes close to medical sciences or science in general per say. But that is perfectly alright for Harper to assign her Health Minister portfolio.

This is the dumbest thing in politics. Everyone else needs a proper education, they just need the political shuffle. Drives me nuts.... especially Joe 'creepy' Oliver being the Natural Resources Minister and now magically he's the Finance Minister. At least he has some background in the finance dept., the NRM position for him was absolutely ridiculous.

[Dutch01]

Oh yeah, I watched the video.

I didn't know that a bushel of corn now weighs 54 lbs. Actually, a standard bushel of corn still weighs 56 lbs. That's what corn should weigh for a farmer to get paid for grade 2 corn. If your bushel weight is less than 56 lbs, you will likely receive a discounted price. Bushel weight is impacted every year by many factors, factors like planting date, fertility levels, heat units received and plant maturity. Some years the corn weighs heavy, some years light.

 

That's your take away from that video? I don't even know what to say....

Edited June 16, 2015 by Dutch01

[Dutch01]

 

That does not mean that it does not cause harm when smoked on a regular basis over a long time period.

Dr. Donald Tashkin M.D. (Professor of Medicine at UCLA's Geffen School of Medicine and a Pulmonologist) disagrees with you:

 

"UCLA's Tashkin studied heavy marijuana smokers to determine whether the use led to increased risk of lung cancer and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, or COPD. He hypothesized that there would be a definitive link between cancer and marijuana smoking, but the results proved otherwise."What we found instead was no association and even a suggestion of some protective effect," says Tashkin, whose research was the largest case-control study ever conducted."

[lookinforwalleye]

Actually recent studies have shown that marihuana damages short and long term memory and significantly effects developing brains of young adults. Pot is not harmless. Especially today's hydroponically grown marihuana which is genetically modified to produce a THC content of close to and over 24%.

Yes and I would suggest that the organization that commissioned the study had a vested interest in the result!

 

The education system does more harm to youths than Cannabis will ever do!!!

[John Bacon]

Dr. Donald Tashkin M.D. (Professor of Medicine at UCLA's Geffen School of Medicine and a Pulmonologist) disagrees with you:

 

That's debatable. He measured two specific health issues. There could still be other long term health effects besides the two that he measured.

[Dutch01]

 

That's debatable. He measured two specific health issues. There could still be other long term health effects besides the two that he measured.

A fair comment. However, we've been fed generations of lies going back to the reefer madness era, and just about every new study out contradicts or disproves the propaganda.

 

When our government is caught lying to us, and continues to insist that they aren't lying, and know better than us what is good for us, they lose all credibility. It makes people wonder "what else are they lying to us about?". Any government driven by reason and logic would have moderated their position in light of new information and growing public sentiment on the issue. This government is driven by ideology and simply doubles down on prohibition every chance they get. I believe it's time for a change. Unfortunately I'm not sold on the alternatives, so I will still be holding my nose while I vote. It just won't be for Harper anymore.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Dutch01

[BillM]

Weed outrage. It's no different then booze if you ask me. Regulate it and make it legal.

[Andy]

My take away is that I would take most of what he says with a large grain of salt when he is either purposefully misleading you or grossly inaccurate when it come to a few basic facts.

Rats developed tumors after drinking water containing glysophate. Who ever promoted drinking glysophate? We don't drink water laced with gasoline or anti-freeze of household cleaners, do we? (Yet some of our rivers by big cities have so many hormones or hormone like substances in the waste water from birth control pills and various everyday household products that the that fish are changing sex.)

He implies that RR crops cause obesity, autism, various cancers and behavioural changes. Because he says so this must be true. After all, it's on the internet.

Many cancers take years to develop, yet he implies that cancer rates increase at virtually the same rate as the use of RR crops.

I thought obesity was caused by the vast amount of processed junk food consumed while sitting on the couch watching TV for hours on end.

Weren't vaccines supposed to cause autism? Isn't this why some misguided parents are putting other families at risk by not vaccinating their children because some kook celebrity says so?

I'm pretty sure that if your sitting on your couch tonight smoking a joint and eating a bag of Doritos that it's not the corn in the Doritos affecting your behaviour.

And farmers have been using insecticides and fungicides on seed for decades. And these same crops are routinely sprayed with various herbicides and pesticides. This is nothing new. And many chemicals that were commonplace are no longer available or used in the same way because they were proven carcinogenic or weeds became resistant. Will glysophate share this fate? Time will tell. I will agree that neonics seem to be a concern and need to be closely looked at.

Glysophate resistant weeds are not superweeds. They are simply weeds that are or have become resistant to glysophate. This is not unique to glysophate. This is why most farmers have a cropping program that makes use of crop rotation and the use of different classes of herbicides to employ various modes of action, thereby trying to avoid weed resistance to any certain family of herbicides.

It's interesting that in the 90's, corn was genetically modified to be resistant to corn borer. It's called bt corn and most of the corn grown is now bt corn. You could ban all Roundup Ready corn tomorrow and you would still be eating a GMO grain. And yet you hear virtually no one talk about that.

[Dutch01]

Now THAT is a response, now we're talking.

 

 

"My take away is that I would take most of what he says with a large grain of salt when he is either purposefully misleading you or grossly inaccurate when it come to a few basic facts."

 

I take what everyone says with a grain of salt. Monsanto has spent 10's or even 100's of millions of dollars silencing any criticism of their products. They have infiltrated corporate boards and forced researchers to retract unflattering studies. They have used the courts to bully farmers into bankruptcy for the "crime" of having their non-GMO crops pollinated by neighbours growing Monsanto crops. I believe that Monsanto is aware of health risks associated with Glyphosate, and will do anything to silence critics. So forgive me if I put this lecturer a little above Monsanto on the trustworthiness scale.

 

"Rats developed tumors after drinking water containing glysophate. Who ever promoted drinking glysophate? We don't drink water laced with gasoline or anti-freeze of household cleaners, do we? (Yet some of our rivers by big cities have so many hormones or hormone like substances in the waste water from birth control pills and various everyday household products that the that fish are changing sex.)"

 

We already spray glyphosate on food crops multiple times over a growth cycle. These food crops are mostly water. Having rats drink water with glyphosate is intended to stimulate long term accumulation of smaller doses, and is a common and valid research methodology. As an interesting aside, when researchers blocked the endocannabinoid system in rats, the rats developed VERY large tumors, leading researches to conclude that marijuana may have therapeutic value in the treatment of tumors.

 

"He implies that RR crops cause obesity, autism, various cancers and behavioural changes. Because he says so this must be true. After all, it's on the internet."

 

 

And because Monsanto says the opposite, it must be true right?

 

 

"Many cancers take years to develop, yet he implies that cancer rates increase at virtually the same rate as the use of RR crops.

I thought obesity was caused by the vast amount of processed junk food consumed while sitting on the couch watching TV for hours on end.

Weren't vaccines supposed to cause autism? Isn't this why some misguided parents are putting other families at risk by not vaccinating their children because some kook celebrity says so?

I'm pretty sure that if your sitting on your couch tonight smoking a joint and eating a bag of Doritos that it's not the corn in the Doritos affecting your behaviour."

 

Yes, many cancers take years to develop. Roundup hit the market in 1970, that's almost 50 years for cancers to develop.

 

I don't eat Doritos, FYI. You are correct that marijuana affects my behavior. In my case I would argue for the better. At least I have the choice to partake or not. Monsanto has spent millions of dollars to prevent labeling that would allow me the choice to consume Roundup or not.

 

 

"And farmers have been using insecticides and fungicides on seed for decades. And these same crops are routinely sprayed with various herbicides and pesticides. This is nothing new. And many chemicals that were commonplace are no longer available or used in the same way because they were proven carcinogenic or weeds became resistant. Will glysophate share this fate? Time will tell."

 

You may be right. However, I believe that if we continue to allow the lobby industry to dictate our public policy by wielding money as a hammer, we will never know.

 

"I will agree that neonics seem to be a concern and need to be closely looked at.

Glysophate resistant weeds are not superweeds. They are simply weeds that are or have become resistant to glysophate. This is not unique to glysophate. This is why most farmers have a cropping program that makes use of crop rotation and the use of different classes of herbicides to employ various modes of action, thereby trying to avoid weed resistance to any certain family of herbicides.

It's interesting that in the 90's, corn was genetically modified to be resistant to corn borer. It's called bt corn and most of the corn grown is now bt corn. You could ban all Roundup Ready corn tomorrow and you would still be eating a GMO grain. And yet you hear virtually no one talk about that."

 

If companies like Monsanto have their way, no one will be talking about anything. We will all be silenced. We will all be in the dark. We will not have choices.

 

As a species, we have proven to be remarkably short sighted. If we allow the wholesale commercialization of our food supply based on profit, rather than science and ethics, we risk destroying the biodiversity that makes the Earth function. Monsanto's market capitalization is at +/-$55B and growing. Their only organizational goal is profit. If we don't take a stand now, we are lost. To be fair, I am not just singling out Monsanto. There are many large multinational corporations who are buying favourable public policy all over the world. I don't believe it is an overstatement to say we are allowing these corporations to dictate our future (or lack thereof). I'm not much of an optimist, and I personally believe it is already too late. If true, then all my words amount to nothing more than raging against the machine.

 

I really hope you will look beyond the surface arguments here and think about what motivates these actors. Only then can you understand what their end game is.

 

Dutch

 

Sent from my iPhone

Edited June 16, 2015 by Dutch01

[Dutch01]

For some reading about a promising alternative to chemical herbicides, Google Paul Stamets, a mycologist who holds a patent that has Monsanto running scared (at least until they buy him out!).

 

He engineered an existing entomopathogenic fungus (fungi that destroys insects) to not produce spores. Insects eat the fungus, and are then turned into fungus from the inside out.

 

I'm not suggesting we run headlong into a new era without significant research, but at first glance this appears to be a better alternative than soaking our fields with an industrial descaling agent (the original patented use for glyphosate).

Edited June 16, 2015 by Dutch01

[manitoubass2]

Ill stick to weed, no sativas for me though.

 

Try being addicted to benzos. What a hell ride.

 

Its been months and I still suffer. And when I suffer my family suffers.

 

When I smoke weed im relieved and functional. I feel good but not stoned. Just functional and without panic attacks/anxiety.

 

Im a new smoker, 35 now and i just started a few months back. I dont smoke to get high. A gram lasts me about a week. I juat one hit a tiny piece once or twice a day when I feel overwhelming panic.

 

I have PTSD so its a real struggle but things are getting beťter and marijuana helps.

 

No real side effects ive seen unless I use sativas I get high and anxiety worsens. Indicas help dramatically.

 

Personally, id rather smoke weed then use benzos, alcohol and or antidepressive drugs for my situation(all of which help initially then make things dramatically worse after)

Edited June 16, 2015 by manitoubass2

[Andy]

I'm not saying I am putting all my trust in Monsanto and like minded corporations with their tremendous influence and resources. By all means hold them accountable. Same goes for government. (Wynne getting re-elected still infuriates me.) But I'm do realize that everyone has an agenda, and a speaker at an organic growers conference also has an agenda. He goes on about glysophate being a descaler. So what? Toothpaste takes grease stains out of my clothes, but I still brush my teeth with it. Coke will dissolve the rust off of metal too, but I still like it with rum. (Never mind the major impact soft drinks have re; obesity rates.) Some guys put WD-40 on their fishing lures, which I really don't understand. The main active ingredient of Viagra was initially used for other purposes than what it is sold for now, but that doesn't seem to be a bone of contention. The list can go on and on. (see your doctor after 4 hrs.)

 

Roundup may have available since the 70's, but it wasn't until the mid 90's that it began being sprayed directly on field crops. It's primary use initially was use as a burndown, to clean up weeds before or after the crop was planted or harvested, usually for hard to kill perennials like quackgrass. And in the vast majority of cases, this involves one application per season, not multiple applications.

 

The media shares some blame in sensationalizing these issues. There was a news article about the horrors of a crop of wheat that wouldn't die because it was Roundup resistant. Roundup ready volunteer corn and wheat that appears in a subsequent years crop of soybeans, for example, is actually quite easy to control with other classes of herbicides that are routinely being used. And all weeds and plants are still allergic to iron in the form of a cultivator or plow.

 

As far as choice goes, I'll give you that one. Food labelling has come a long way, and probably has a long way to go. What makes me shake my head is that some people will lose their minds over what farmers are using in their fields in Canada, all which have gone through a regulatory process to be registered, and yet they will by fruit and vegetables from Asia, China, Central and South America, and many other places in the world where you have absolutely no idea what is being used to grow those foodstuffs. You remember that video of the fish being raised in the river in what was essentially human waste? Canadians are eating that every day without question.

 

US farmers have access to chemicals that aren't registered for use in Canada. Some of these chemicals may be good or bad, but we will likely never know because the cost of getting these chemicals approved for use here in Canada is too high, and our market is too small to bother with. So you have likely eaten grain products grown with chemicals that have never been approved for use in Canada.

 

Anyway, I have quite enjoyed this thread, but I'm bowing out.

All the best to you Dutch01. I enjoyed your posts, even though our opinions are quite different.

To end on a fishing note, I bought a bunch of new lures over the winter, spoons in particular, and I need to go fishing soon. They were the lures I started with and I seemed to have drifted away from them over the past few years.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Andy

[Dutch01]

Yes, by internet standards that was quite civil! I never shy away from a different viewpoint, it's the only way to broaden your horizons. I'm glad you shared yours.

 

I've never really used spoons except flatlining for trout in gbay years ago. I'm more of a live bait fisherman most of the time (I fish walleye almost exclusively).

 

Good luck with the spoons. I'm off to Restoule on the 26th for a few days of R&R and fishing.. Hopefully I'll have something worth reporting when I get back.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Dutch01

[GbayGiant]

Weed outrage. It's no different then booze if you ask me. Regulate it and make it legal.

 

No one asked but if they did, you would be 100% wrong!

[manitoubass2]

Weed outrage???

 

Never heard or seen that lol

[Big Cliff]

Salt is bad for you, oh wait, no it isn't!

Eggs, fish, beef, pork, butter, sugar......... every time I turn around there is another study that shows something that was bad for you is good for you and the pendulum just keeps swinging. If I die because I am over weight, drink too much, eat too many eggs..... whatever, I am going with food in one hand, a fishing rod in the other, a bottle of scotch at my feet, a beautiful lady at my side and a smile on my face and I want to be burried bass up so the politicians can all kiss my bass!

[dave524]

 

Roundup may have available since the 70's, but it wasn't until the mid 90's that it began being sprayed directly on field crops. It's primary use initially was use as a burndown, to clean up weeds before or after the crop was planted or harvested, usually for hard to kill perennials like quackgrass. And in the vast majority of cases, this involves one application per season, not multiple applications.

 

 

 

Worked on a fruit farm during the 60's. No Roundup, actually wish we did have it, we put 2,4 5,T on weeds around the base of fruit trees and in the vineyards, we had some corn too , used Atrazine as a weed killer in the cornfield. 1969 I went to U of T for 5 years, lived near the St George subway stop, bout halfway between Yorkville and Rochdale College, yes I inhaled, still here , to read on the internet you'd think I should be dead by now.

[highdrifter]

Weed outrage. It's no different then booze if you ask me. Regulate it and make it legal.

 

But that would take away the fun!!

[BillM]

 

No one asked but if they did, you would be 100% wrong!

 

You completely misunderstood my entire reply. Outrage as in people being outraged it's not legalized yet.

 

whoosh!