FloatnFly Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 This has been a debate on other forums, is there pike in Lake Scugog, I have a very reliable source, who between him and brother, have a combined 60 years experience fishing the lake in all seasons, who says absolutely no pike in scugog, just musky and tiger musky. Thoughts?
Garfisher Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 No pike in Scugog. Maybe in a decade but not yet.
Locnar Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 If they say there is "Tiger Musky" that means there's pike. But I highly doubt there's pike. With all the bass fishing I've done there I'm sure I would've run into at least a hammer handle by now.
Old Ironmaker Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 I caught a Tiger Musky in Skugog too. Unless there was an immaculate conception there used to be Pike there for sure.
Fisherpete Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) There are muskies with very distict striped patterns in Scugog, which may confuse some anglers, but I seriously doubt there are any tigers in there yet. I've caught 15 tigers myself and am quite familiar with the differences. Between Andrew (Lunkerhunter) myself and a few other hardcore muskie guys we know we have caught a ton of muskies from there, and have never caught or even heard of a tiger in there. Old Ironmaker - do you have any pictures we could see? Here's a few Scugog fish... And a true tiger: Edited May 31, 2015 by Fisherpete
Old Ironmaker Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 I have pictures and I still have the fish hanging on the wall in my kitchen. This was before C&R became the norm. I did the mount because I caught it on 8 lb. mono on a Ieaderless Black Fury looking for Walters. I always thought it was a Musky until a very knowledgeable Musky guy told me it was a Tiger. Danny Columby told me some things to look for of which I can't remember and the thing looks to be a Tiger based on those features. I can take a few pics and email to you if you PM me the address Pete. The colours are very accurate to the original fish, it was done by an award winning taxidermist in Hamilton, Joe Martin in 79' or so. It looks as fresh as the day it was caught. All I do is dust it off with a damp cloth once a year, maybe. I wonder if Joe is still with us, he would be in his 80;s now I think, great guy. Up to the last few years I always thought it was a Musky.
Old Ironmaker Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 I have pictures and I still have the fish hanging on the wall in my kitchen. This was before C&R became the norm. I did the mount because I caught it on 8 lb. mono on a Ieaderless Black Fury looking for Walters. I always thought it was a Musky until a very knowledgeable Musky guy told me it was a Tiger. Danny Columby told me some things to look for of which I can't remember and the thing looks to be a Tiger based on those features. I can take a few pics and email to you if you PM me the address Pete. The colours are very accurate to the original fish, it was done by an award winning taxidermist in Hamilton, Joe Martin in 79' or so. It looks as fresh as the day it was caught. All I do is dust it off with a damp cloth once a year, maybe. I wonder if Joe is still with us, he would be in his 80;s now I think, great guy. Up to the last few years I always thought it was a Musky. How you can tell the difference is beyond me. I've only seen 3 in my life and 2 I caught, Danny caught the other.
fishindevil Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 Well they are spreading throughout the kawarthas and it is possible for sure !!! There are now pike being caught in places they were not 10yrs ago totally possible
johnl Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 i havent seen any pike only muskies.my buddy said he caught a small one about 3 or 4 years ago but i think/hope he was mistaken.
Tom McCutcheon Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) To "Old Ironmaker" The easy to see differences between a Muskie and Pike are as follows. The caudel and paired fins of a Muskie are pointed whereas the same fins on a Hybrid and Pike are more rounded. Also the pores on the underside of a Muskies jaw will number between 7 and 9 and a Hybrid or Pike will not be more than 5. For possession limits, a Hybrid is considered a Muskie. There is also a possibility of a Hybrid migrating into the Kawartha's from Lake Simcoe Hope this helps and I really hope there are no Pike in Scugog. Edited May 31, 2015 by Tom McCutcheon
Old Ironmaker Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 I definitely see the difference in the rounded vs. pointed fins. These fins are definitely round. Can't count the pours lost in the mount.
Rich Nelson Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Not likely, but its possible. Post original pics of the fish Old Ironmaker. An artists rendition on the mount doesnt mean much. Edited May 31, 2015 by Bladeburner
Pigeontroller Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 A biologist will not identify a Hybrid Musky based on the coloration.
Tom McCutcheon Posted May 31, 2015 Report Posted May 31, 2015 If you have it hanging on you're wall, it means you are very proud of it and you should be. I wouldn't suggest any other means of a "positive identification" other than DNA sampling, and I am sure you do not wish to do that. Be proud of what you have accomplished and believe for yourself .
FloatnFly Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Posted June 1, 2015 Tigers would have been stocked there correct? since a natural reproduction would mean a pike/musky breeding
Tom McCutcheon Posted June 1, 2015 Report Posted June 1, 2015 Your correct, but to my knowledge Scugog has never stocked a Muskie. Hybrid or Natural.
John Bacon Posted June 1, 2015 Report Posted June 1, 2015 Your correct, but to my knowledge Scugog has never stocked a Muskie. Hybrid or Natural. To the best of my knowledge; tiger muskies have never been stocked any where in Ontario.
Old Ironmaker Posted June 1, 2015 Report Posted June 1, 2015 I have an old grainy pic of the fish somewhere here. If the fins are a definitive feature it is a Tiger. Definitly rounded not pointed like in the pics above. Regarless, and I really don't care, I caught a 17 pounder on 8 lb mono and no leader.
FloatnFly Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Posted June 1, 2015 Your correct, but to my knowledge Scugog has never stocked a Muskie. Hybrid or Natural. They were stocked everywhere in the kawarthas in the 20's and 30's http://mffp.gouv.qc.ca/faune/peche/ensemencement/Pdf/esocides.pdf scroll down to page 8 for the number of fry released into what waters, and how many
Tom McCutcheon Posted June 1, 2015 Report Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) What's the old adage....."you're never too old to learn and you learn something new everyday" I had forgotten about that program and stand corrected. The stocking was natural Muskies and no Hybrids. There may be some of that original gene pool still in todays fish, but the Kawartha Muskie are a genetically different species than others in the province and this is one of the reasons why they seem to be sort of defenceless against Northern Pike. They have never had to compete with another top predator until recently. (last 20 or 30 years) Not really answering your poll questions though.....LOL Edited June 1, 2015 by Tom McCutcheon
FloatnFly Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Posted June 1, 2015 musky and pike can co exist, they do in Georgian bay, but they live at different depths, so it works, in the kawarthas they share the same habitat, and since pike spawn sooner, the pike fry eat the musky fry, thus eliminating the population through lack of fry.
Fisherpete Posted June 1, 2015 Report Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) My email is [email protected] - if you send a pic and don't mind I will post it here Edited June 1, 2015 by Fisherpete
jimmer Posted June 1, 2015 Report Posted June 1, 2015 I agree with whoever said you can't use a mount to distinguish between a muskie and a tiger. Fins can be trimmed incorrectly and the fish can be painted in any pattern. ( I have also won awards at taxidermy shows) Scugog muskie are definitely more heavily barred than the other lakes, giving people the impression that they are a tiger. Someone would have had to put the pike into Scugog if there are any. Sturgeon would have to be full of them before any reached Scugog and moved upstream through the lock system. This rumour has been going around for quite some time. Time enough for a decent population to be established to confirm their existence.
Old Ironmaker Posted June 1, 2015 Report Posted June 1, 2015 If I send a pic of a mount I don't see anything positive coming of it.
lew Posted June 1, 2015 Report Posted June 1, 2015 If I send a pic of a mount I don't see anything positive coming of it. If it's a legal fish, why not post it John. I had my 1st musky mounted more than 40 years ago, still have it hanging in the garage, and have posted the pic on here a few times over the years.
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