back up sump pump

[wormdunker]

I'm researching info to install a back up sump pump system in my home. I enjoy all of the technical help on this site - so I want to ask your opinions. I've looked at the battery back up systems such as Power Hub 1800, Liberty pumps, Zoehler & a few others. I do like the systems that have the battery power back up as well as the second sump pump to back up the primary pump for peace of mind. Your comments & opinions are appreciated. Thanx

[Big Cliff]

Back up sump pumps I don't know a lot about but last year I bought a "water monitor alarm system" at Home Hardware for about $275.00. It comes with a remote sensor and can even be programed to dial your cell phone in the event that the alarm is triggered. Might be worth looking at.

[wormdunker]

Thanx Cliff. I'm also looking into a similar alarm. Great that it will notify me if there is a water problem at home. What I really need is a system that will pump water when wifey & I are out of town.

[aplumma]

back up sump pumps are rarely effective to prevent water damage. First most of the 12 volt units have cheap chargers that cook the batteries and a class 27 battery will run for 6 hours only. The second issue is if it pumps 2000 gallons an hour that is only when the battery is at 100 percent. At 75 percent it is only 1500 gallons an hours etc. The amount of lift and friction loss on a run of pipe will cut the flow rate way down so the 2000 GPH is decreased to 900 GPH with as little as a 15ft head and a 20ft run. They do give you a false sense of security but they are only a glorified marine pump.

 

 

The water monitor can notify any phone # so if you leave town the neighbor can take the call and get a small generator going on it.

 

Art

[Entropy]

We have a Home Sitter (monitors hot cold water and power outage). I bought it at TSC for $70, it calls my cell when any of the bad stuff happens.

 

We pump lots of water in the spring. I have a "low" pump and a "high" pump. If the low one quits the high one will take over, or if the low one is overwhelmed, the higher one would help out. Both pumps are on different circuits, and both have separate discharge lines. The low one is burried outside, the high one is above ground. Both discharge lines will totally drain by gravity. Reason for two separate lines is if one freezes solid and is totally screwed, the other one will work and can be heated with an outside heat line, or heater.

My neighbour has a battery backup, and it dies way too soon. It is pointless. A backup generator is the way to go.

 

Entropy

[OhioFisherman]

http://www.sumppumpworld.com/shop-by-brand/hydromatic/hydromatic-w-a1-submersible-sump-pump-3-10-hp.html

 

 

I keep a couple of these around the house, plug in, but stuff has a habit of failing when the stores are closed.

[G.mech]

I have lot of water to pump especially in winter and spring and we aren't home during the day. I have a similar 'high/low' pump with separate lines like Entropy said which works great but if the power goes out I would be doomed within an hour. I now have an automatic standby generator to back them up but before I got it I put in a half decent battery backup system. I put two batteries on it and it would keep things in check for about 12 hours and it runs about 1/3 of the time. It saved our bacon a number of times when we weren't around. I now have all three systems so there is no possible way anything could ever go wrong......right????

[wormdunker]

Thanx for all the valuable info.

I do like Entrophy's idea of a high & low 2 sump pump system. I also like the idea Entrophy stated about using separate circuits for the 2 pumps. Makes sense to me.

Apluma I understand your point of the lift the pump must push the water. I measured the height from the bottom of my sump pit to point where the discharge hose exits my house. It is only 90". My present discharge line is 1 1/4" smooth pvc pipe - so minimal friction. Also, after exiting my basement wall the discharge line is a good slope of about a 2' drop from the exterior basement wall to the drainage ditch at my back property line. Thanx for the info about cooking the batteries. I was going to use my 2 interstate deep cycle batteries from my boat but I don't want to fry them. They are rather expensive.

G mech - I also like your idea of an automatic standby generator. Would you be so kind as to educate me on how the automatic generator system is wired. What size genny do I require? I do like the Honda gennys as they are very quiet to operate.

Once again thanx for your input guys. Tomorrow I'm going to visit my local Honda dealer to investigate generators. I'll keep you updated.

[Entropy]

LOL, when I get the call from my house and race home to fire up the genny, I have often asked myself .... "What happens when this genny quits?". Buy a good auto start up one, and a small cheap one. Two are better than one, but you have to run them every 2 to 4 weeks, to ensure they will perform when needed.

 

The first time it works, it saves THOUSANDS in damage and a big pain in the butt.

 

Entropy

[G.mech]

Here is a link to a previous thread on the generator discussion. Lew posted pics of his install. Mine is very similar only a bit bigger and a bit older. Not cheap but worth every penny if you're out in the boonies and away from home a lot:

 

http://ontariofishingcommunity.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72833&hl=generac&do=findComment&comment=827601

[Freshtrax]

I have no sump pump. But I do have a water leak sensor that will call my cellphone . It's part of my home security system. Gives me peace of mind I can call the neibour to shut the water off if I'm out of town. Check with your insurance company mine gave me a steep discount for having it.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Freshtrax

[wormdunker]

Freshtrax - thanx for your input. The water sensor to call my cell phone would be ideal as I have 2 or 3 very good neighbours who would offer assistance if we're out of town.

Entrophy - Yup for sure 2 are better than 1. I'm going to be looking at generators today.

G. mech - thanx for providing the link to a previous discussion. I had previously read that post but, as usual forgot where it was located. (alzheimers is not a good thing - but 1 positive would be - you can hide your own Easter eggs!!) Very good info. Thanx

[aplumma]

If you decide to go with the battery back up I recommend with hesitation( because they do the job marginally if you keep up on the batteries) zoeller 507 with 2 AMG deep cycle batteries in line (wired for 12 volt ) and a guest marine charger. This will give you a charging system that is as good as the one in your boat as well as excellent stand by capacity. The pumps will also need to have separate check valves if you need a diagram send me a P.M..

 

 

Art

 

 

[Mister G]

You want something that will do the job when your not home and that would be a water driven back up sump pump "IF" you have city water. I put one in about 4-5 years ago and it works just like it was design to do. I did it myself for under $200 back then.

 

http://www.zoro.com/i/G0490987/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&kpid=G0490987&gclid=CKCR8_nih8ICFZPm7Aod9g0Ajg

[SirCranksalot]

I don't have 2 separate systems but I do have 2 pumps, one set 'low' and the other 'high'. If the buried discharge pipe freezes I will disconnect it and run it over the ground using temporary plastic pipe.

 

I don't have city water so I cannot use a water driven pump.

 

I did look at buying a remote sensor that would send an alarm to a smartphone but it looked like a PITA to hook up a modem etc for a non-computer geek. The one I looked at is shown on this link:

 

http://www.hedonics.com/store/prodinfo.asp?number=13501&variation=&aitem=3&mitem=7

 

 

We have a Home Sitter (monitors hot cold water and power outage). I bought it at TSC for $70, it calls my cell when any of the bad stuff happens.

 

 

I wasn't keen on buying it on-line and have been unable to find one in a store.

 

I don't see this Homesitter on the TSC website. There is a similar one on the Home H site but the price is not obvious.

[Entropy]

Hmmm, wish I could 'paste' the url onto this page, but no can do. not even cntrlV works... Why?

 

The 'Home Sitter' on the Home H website is the one I have, I was $70 a few years ago, might be $100 now. Works great!

you plug it into a phone line and an electrical outlet.

[wormdunker]

Thanx guys. I did go shopping yesterday. Here's what I found. Honda portable gas generator , 2000 watt $1300.00 - expensive but quiet to operate & fuel efficient. Generac same size $750.00 but a little louder than the Honda. I do no want a Champion generator. I also searched the water powered systems but they do consume about 1 gallon of city water to discharge 1 gallon on sump water. The Zoeller 507 systems seems to be a very good unit. But, then there is the cost of 2 AGM batteries to consider. Now the Cadillac of power supply systems - it's similar to Lews.

Koehler 8000 watt generator which will run my whole house in the event of a power outage. It is wired directly to my house panel, powered by natural gas or propane. It will automatically turn on when the hydro goes out & will keep all my electrical equipment operating in a normal fashion. Fridges, freezer, furnace, sump pump, TVs, computers. Awesome!

Cost is $4,000.00, installation approx. 800.00 + tax. Total about $5,400.00. Awesome! Decisions - decisions??

[Mister G]

My Liberty water driven pump uses 1 city gallon of water to pump out 2 gallons of water.

 

Remember these are back up pumps and will never go on until your regular sump pump fails to do it's job because either you lose the power OR the pump float switch fails or the motor fails. A generator will not help you if something go wrongs with your regular S pump and you are not home.

 

See here.............1 gallon used to pump 2 gallons out.

 

https://www.libertypumps.com/Products/Category/SubCategory/Product/?p=76&s=23&c=14

[Shloim]

Water driven pumps as a back up are the best under rated device you can add. Been in construction my entire life and if I had a house with a sump I would put one in without doubt. Provided you are on city water...

[Big Cliff]

Your back up generator is a super idea (as long as your sump pump doesn't fail). Personally I think they are nice to have but how often would you ever really use it? I have a 6500 watt generator sitting here, house is all wired up for it and it will do everything I need if we have a power failure. It has been sitting here for 5 years and so far it has had about two hours use.

 

I do think you would be better looking at alternatives other than the back up generator.

[SirCranksalot]

Water driven pumps as a back up are the best under rated device you can add. Been in construction my entire life and if I had a house with a sump I would put one in without doubt. Provided you are on city water...

 

That should be a minor consideration. who cares how much city water you use when it's keeping your bsmt dry?

[G.mech]

My Liberty water driven pump uses 1 city gallon of water to pump out 2 gallons of water.

 

Remember these are back up pumps and will never go on until your regular sump pump fails to do it's job because either you lose the power OR the pump float switch fails or the motor fails. A generator will not help you if something go wrongs with your regular S pump and you are not home.

 

See here.............1 gallon used to pump 2 gallons out.

 

https://www.libertypumps.com/Products/Category/SubCategory/Product/?p=76&s=23&c=14

 

 

That's great if you are on city water but if you don't it's useless in a power outage.

Edited November 21, 2014 by G.mech

[G.mech]

Your back up generator is a super idea (as long as your sump pump doesn't fail). Personally I think they are nice to have but how often would you ever really use it? I have a 6500 watt generator sitting here, house is all wired up for it and it will do everything I need if we have a power failure. It has been sitting here for 5 years and so far it has had about two hours use.

 

I do think you would be better looking at alternatives other than the back up generator.

So if you're not home who will hook it up and make it run? Personally in the last 5 years I have had two outages that lasted 48 hours or more and numerous shorter ones that would have resulted in basement flooding. I am not at home and the peace of mind and lack of damage is worth every penny.

[wormdunker]

Once again I appreciate all of your comments/opinions. I decided to purchase the water driven back up system. It seems to be a good way to go. I'm hoping in about 4 hours it's up & running. Wish me luck. Thanx again.

[Mister G]

Once again I appreciate all of your comments/opinions. I decided to purchase the water driven back up system. It seems to be a good way to go. I'm hoping in about 4 hours it's up & running. Wish me luck. Thanx again.

Get 'R Done....

 

Make sure you follow the installation instructions and install a shut off or two plus a a one way flapper valve on the exhaust side of the plumbing.

 

Mine required 3/4" supply pipe to the pump and I believe 1.25" exhaust pipe going out.

 

Good Luck and do a good job as it will serve you for many years to come.