Lake Nipissing Walleye, sigh.

[solopaddler]

How did the natives (true natives) back in the day catch walleye? Did they use the same method (nets) they use now?

 

Rhetorical question?

 

I recently spent some time in the remote native community of Kasabonika Lake where the residents by and large live a much more traditional lifestyle. (As traditional as they can with snow machines, ATV's, aluminum boats, etc..)

 

Those guys don't waste ANYTHING. I saw them set nets for whitefish and not a one was wasted. All of those fish were used to feed the community, nothing more. Same thing when they shoot an animal, every single part is either consumed or used in some way.

 

It's a far cry from the goings on we see in the south.

[Spiel]

 

 

It's a far cry from the goings on we see in the south.

 

That's because (as you well know) in the south the activity of commercial netting is driven by the almighty dollar and greed, not sustenance and necessity.

This activity on Nipissing is not about treaty rights, it's about big dollars to very few individuals as noted here by some of the affected local aborigional people.

 

 

http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/city-of-north-bay-ban-nipissing-commercial-fishing-and-net-fishing?recruiter=129968610&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

[Kingsalmon]

Kuha I believe last year the NFN fishery took out about 29000 kg and the anglers were around 20000kg. And both these numbers represent all fish caught, biologists take the side of caution so estimate higher numbers to ensure the highest number possible is used. This cover non compliances.

 

The average catch for 2013 per day with 10 nets (3000 feet) was 40 walleye. Numbers for Pike, perch, whitefish etc are all recorded. They have markets for the species I mentioned but herring are illegal to sell due to the amount of worms and suckers most people do not want. Some people in the community will use them when the water is colder for canning.

 

Aside from the couple bad apples there nets are set in the late evening, and lifted by 9 am and put on ice in the boat immediately. Fish aren't rotten unless left unattended.

I wouldn't be surprised by those numbers, and it just comes back to my main reason for starting this topic. Why do the commercial netters have more harvest than sport fisherman? 29000kg vs 20000kg? And the sport fisherman got screwed over on a new limit again? So as others have pointed out, we release the smaller fish to grow and get taken up by the netters. Who makes this stuff up? I guess its only in Ontario.

 

Simple math brings me to this conclusion:

Commercial harvest - 29000kg gross - 14500kg filleted @ $35.2/kg($16/pound) retail = $510,400 at retail prices.

Sportfisherman (my trip this past week) - Accommodations, boat, fuel, bait, tackle, food, travel - $1200 - 1 walleye kept at 1.5kg/3.3lbs gross - .75kg/1.65 pounds filleted = $1600 per kg / $727 per pound

 

If the 29000kg commercial harvest numbers are correct, we are talking about a commercial fishing industry worth a half a million bucks! Meanwhile the whole sport fishing industry on Lake Nipissing is collectively losing multi millions a year and sportfishing more than likely contributes multi millions to the general economy of the area. This is what gets me. The OMNR and our government is restricting sport fishing for the protection of an industry that contributes little to the overall economy of the region while using a greater portion of the resource for its activity. Stupid, just plain stupid. All for 1/2 million dollars. What the hell?!?!?!?!?!

 

 

I didnt want this topic to go off on a tangent blaming the natives that live off the land for their substinence. That is not what I intended. Yes, it is the natives that have the commercial fishing quotas on Lake Nipissing and I would have the same feelings if it were white folks netting the lake. Given that Lake Nipissing is a valuable resource and is within commuting distance of the GTA, it should be used more effectively than present practices.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Kingsalmon

[67ZL1]

The same thing has happened on Lesser Slave Lake in Alberta. The FIL swears up and down that 8-10 lb'ers were common back in late 80's early 90's. There are a lot of people there blaming the netting for the decline. Now days you would be hard pressed to catch a 4 pounder.

[moxie]

Deja vu? Same old song and dance concerning this topic. Suggestion? If you want to taste some Walleye and you think you can get away with it, keep a couple more for the table and be done with it. Who are we kidding anyway? We sock billions into everything in this province only to be strangled with rules and regulations while all those with special interests seem to be allowed to do whatever the hell they want. Survey the odds and do as you wish. As far as those who would argue about science and especially ethics. Stuff it.

[moxie]

Forgot to say "Please". Please stuff it.

[crosshairs]

Kingsalmon this has nothing to do with economics, whether I agree or not this is the facts. The first nation has first priority to the resource as protected by the constitution, same ss their commercial fishery they proved through the courts that they traditionally fished commercially before treaty. They have the right to manage their own fishery and regulate it. There are some community members who have been commercially fishing for 40 to 50 years. Anyways as suggested earlier search and you will find all sorts of information. Just a side note I am not a netter, and just about the only fishing I do is with the kids for bullhead and just recently some c and r bass also for the kids. Takecare everyone

[bushart]

I would caution quoting the Constitution...Courts and the Law

 

 

Some believe obviously only the laws that favour their position are worth regarding...otherwise it's just the lefties pandering to special interest groups

 

Stupid laws...don't they know I should be able to do whatever I want---to whoever I want...whenever I want

 

After all..it's a free country..right?

[Nipfisher]

I fish Nipissing 98% of the time I fish. My last couple outings have been for bass, pike and ,musky. Very little walleye fishing for me now.

[porkpie]

 

That's because (as you well know) in the south the activity of commercial netting is driven by the almighty dollar and greed, not sustenance and necessity.

This activity on Nipissing is not about treaty rights, it's about big dollars to very few individuals as noted here by some of the affected local aborigional people.

 

 

http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/city-of-north-bay-ban-nipissing-commercial-fishing-and-net-fishing?recruiter=129968610&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

Absolutely, and it needs to be stopped! I don't think anyone has a problem with natives feeding themselves or their family's from the resources. Raping resources for cash under the guise of traditional harvest is an entirely different matter, and it needs to be stopped now!

[Steve]

bushart, you are stating that we should respect and follow the laws.

 

why is it ok for others not to?

 

shouldn't it be ONE FREAKING LAW!!!!!!!

 

Living near Caledonia and watching the DCE bullcrap over the last decade, it is VERY CLEAR who follows laws and who does not.

 

Maybe instead of spouting the Constitution, you should do some reading about who follows the laws and who does not!!! Or I guess when indians make up laws as they feel fit, they are actually following their laws. We can't do that. We have to follow real laws. I wish I could make up my own laws.

[bushart]

bushart, you are stating that we should respect and follow the laws.

 

why is it ok for others not to?

 

shouldn't it be ONE FREAKING LAW!!!!!!!

 

Living near Caledonia and watching the DCE bullcrap over the last decade, it is VERY CLEAR who follows laws and who does not.

 

Maybe instead of spouting the Constitution, you should do some reading about who follows the laws and who does not!!! Or I guess when indians make up laws as they feel fit, they are actually following their laws. We can't do that. We have to follow real laws. I wish I could make up my own laws.

 

 

Or you could read that my statement was a response to Crosshairs quote of the Constitution...or previous posts on just breaking the law if you see fit

 

maybe What I wrote should not be blindly taken out of context

 

And Never...not once did I say lawbreakers should not be punished----can you show me where I wrote this??

 

But some things ARE the law...like them or not

 

There are some laws I don't like---but that's part of living in a community

 

So if you don't like a law...work to change it...thru proper channels

[Steve]

I guess I need to re-read the constitution, especially the part that allows for this crap:

 

 

 

 

 

Can't change laws that some folks choose not to follow.

 

The laws are in place. They are clear. Don't need to change them. Just need to have EVERYONE follow them.

[bushart]

Last Time I checked a map----6 Nations was a long ways from Nipissing---which this thread was about and walleyes

 

Got an axe to grind---maybe open a new topic and see if you get any bites on that

[Steve]

this thread, and all related to this topics, fall back on one common element.

 

one law for all.

 

and all must follow - not only when they feel fit to.

 

it is the same theme whether talking spearing in Quinte, nipissing netting, or netting on GB.

 

one law for all.

 

and all must obey.

[strik]

well said Steve

 

A friend just lost a cannon ball in a net in g bay.. Said he could not see a marker on the net .. However on one end a small white cleaning bottle(bleach) was tied to it. Before he left he tied a old life jacket to it ..

 

If they are going to do what they want at least mark the dam nets before someone dies getting caught in them..

 

The whole thing is a joke one party does as they see fit with no respect to others or the environment. When you use gill nets you don't care about what you kill just what money you can make..

 

Time to go fishing stay safe everyone

Edited July 27, 2014 by strik

[bushart]

Funny---I guess I'm illiterate then---I thought it was in regards to disappearing walleye numbers in Nipissing and the reasons thereof

 

And I guess I am no good at laws either...because I do not have the right to net walleyes in Nipissing....But The NFN does within the law--as apparently the courts have decided under That Constitution

 

So My deductive reasoning must also be off....because it's not the same rules (laws) for all groups...or one law for all

 

Same reason I can't shoot a moose in January

[bushart]

You do realize there is a non native commercial fishery on the great lakes

[thegrumpyfisherman]

I fish twice a year near the mouth of the South River. It amazes me to hear people blame netting/natives to be honest. Anyone who has been to that area knows that most nights all summer long there can be 30-40 boats plucking fish all day long from that area. Multiply that 7 days a week with 3 persons to a boat or more and how is it any wonder to anyone the numbers are down?

 

I also know for a fact that limits aren't always respected either, especially from many Americans who visit. I think as anglers we need to take some responsibility. This isn't 1970 anymore, there are tens of thousands of us now unlike the old days, and the practice of mass harvesting for fish frys twice a day have to end for the large groups that go up there. It just can't sustain this, 6 lb. fish take 15 years or more to grow, and today the numbers of anglers is exponentially larger and still growing than it was when most were younger.

 

It's a change in culture thats needed. I go with guys who look at me with borderline anger if I say I want to throw something back, like I'm insane. And the groups I see at the lodges I stay at often show similar contempt.

 

The fishery is what we make of it, just my 2 cents. If you caught 200 fish and next to none of them were over 18 inches, that says a lot about what we have done.

 

Tony

Edited July 27, 2014 by thegrumpyfisherman

[Bernie]

30 or 40 boats all year?
There isn't a single one there right now and there wasn't any last night when I went by either.
The only time I see it busy is in the spring, and probably not 30 or 40 boats.

Just did a look around Hunters Bay. One boat in the whole bay on a pleasant evening. And I haven't seen any heading out on the main lake.

And don't pick on the USA tourists, most of the ones I know are great folks.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Bernie

[thegrumpyfisherman]

I was referring to sun down. Like I said I go spring and fall so maybe I am mistaken Bernie. I know this spring there was literally 10 feet between each boat at the mouth it was so packed all three nights I was there.

 

I just don't buy the netting argument. I go to Temagami, Onaping, Woods Bay, all over. The shortage of fish is not unique to Nippissing. They are there, but if levels were healthy everywhere it shouldn't be a challenge to find them.

 

By contrast you go to a fly in lake that isn't full of lodges and the fish are literally jumping into the boat. My opinion is over angling is the biggest factor.

 

Tony

Edited July 27, 2014 by thegrumpyfisherman

[aplumma]

I don't know about the other Americans up there but I have been stopped 12 out of 12 trips by the local MNR so I am pretty sure that the statement of all of the Americans are raping and pillaging the resources

limits aren't always respected either, especially from many Americans who visit

doesn't hold water either Bernie.lol

BTW I have had 12 shore lunches with only 3 of them included walleyes.

 

 

Art

Edited July 28, 2014 by aplumma
you are correct Tony I misquoted you

[thegrumpyfisherman]

K now I'm getting misquoted, "limits aren't always respected either, especially from many Americans who visit" has somehow been converted to "he statement of all of the Americans are raping and pillaging". Sorry I dared to blame overfishing I'll bow out of the discussion now.

Edited July 27, 2014 by thegrumpyfisherman

[Bernie]

After opening weekend the lake at this end goes dead quiet.
Most nights there are maybe one or two boats out on the water in the South Bay.
There could be a couple more in Fish Bay I don't see.

Art, I haven't kept a fish yet this year.

[bushart]

Don't sweat it grumpy fish.....sometimes the fingers hit enter before all the thoughts are laid out

 

I do believe what your saying as part of the issue,.....as well as the nets....as well as the lake personality changes....as well as climate change....as well as pollution.. as well as technological improvements (See Grand Banks NFLD)......etc etc etc

 

And If you fish walleyes much...you'll know the migratory patterns of the fish---and know that the boats are where the fish are---so if the boats are not currently in that area---likely the walleyes are not either....save a straggler or 6

 

And for the ??????? time...this problem is not a one criminal issue......and those that predicate this...are looking for a scapegoat that's an easy target ---nicely wrapped into one neat bow

 

Life is easier if theirs a villain to blame ....collect the angry villagers....who all think alike to validate our lack of answers to a complex problem

 

Maybe the political posters are right...maybe I should get educated