Headhunter Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 HUGE fines for manipulating or removing nets. Enforced by MNR. My friend got one caught in his prop (damaged his skag) and he dragged it to shore. It was unmarked and had no tags on it. Guess what? When he reported it he was charged by MNR and investigated by OPP and native police.I did not intend that anyone remove those nets across spawning rivers, except for those authorized to do so. I re-read my post and it did look like I suggested that, I appologize. If native involvement is increasing, let's hope that they are more willing to tackle the cormorant problem, then the MNR seem to be. Yes, we caught more Pickereyes this winter than we have in the last five. That said, out of the 20 or so our group caught, only two were in the slot. All others were below or well below the slot. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solopaddler Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 You can rationalize it anyway you like, spew statistics ad nauseum, but you can't tell me that 26,000kg's of fish removed by nets isn't harming an already threatened fishery. I'm sick and tired of a certain faction that is so politically correct regarding this issue, walking on eggshells and skirting the true problem. Political correctness be damned. Unfortunately no truly decisive action will be taken by our government until it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishindevil Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 You can rationalize it anyway you like, spew statistics ad nauseum, but you can't tell me that 26,000kg's of fish removed by nets isn't harming an already threatened fishery. I'm sick and tired of a certain faction that is so politically correct regarding this issue, walking on eggshells and skirting the true problem. Political correctness be damned. Unfortunately no truly decisive action will be taken by our government until it's too late. i agree 100% mike !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I know Commercial netting is always mentioned, and the misconceptions all start coming out so here is some information on the NFN harvest. Nipissing first nation commercial fishers for the past 2 years have been harvesting under 20 000kg, add in nets lost, due to weather or tampering, corrections for catch forms etc the harvest is bumped up to 26000 kg. Rather than talk weight lets talk fish, this equals roughly 40 000 fish. 30% of these are biosampled by the biologist. Enforcement is auditing 4 random days a week, observing catch while lifting, checking all gear is legal etc. There is about 10 commercial boats out per night. So the enforcement ratio is pretty high and all biologist reports are peer reveiwed. They are doing this voluntarily, and are being held to the highest standards. Documentation is very important to them, and personally I think they are preparing for a court case, either defending themselves or challengeing the government for mismangement. Sure it is natives policing themselves, but who is policing the anglers?? There is no sound data for the angler harvest, creel is voluntary and enforcement well outta my 30 plus years on the lake I have seen them twice, and that includes me setting nets for personal use, spearing and angling. This is nothing against the Co's their orders come from peterborough.How ever it is spelt. Now NFN commercial takes out 40000 fish lets add 10000 for personal use for a total of 50000 fish for the community. Anglers have 10 weekends from Jan to March closing. Lets use the 2000 huts with 1 angler in shack all weekend. Day 1 he/she catches 2 walleye for dinner so he/she can fish on day 2 to catch 2 more to take home. That is 8000 fish a weekend or 80 000 fish over the winter (weekends) not including during the week or soft water. And we all know there is only 1 per shack. We`are all to blame for the situation. NFN has a set quota, it has been at 37000kg for the past few years and this years regs are being reviewed according to our their newletter. Anglers do not have a quota, only an individual limit so there might be 10 anglers or 100 000 anglers. Like I said earlier, we are all to blame and if we don't take alittle pain now there will be a whole lotta pain later on. The political grandstanding on both sides needs to stop and the right thing needs to be done. The NFN moratorium people laugh at just happens to coincide with the 4 record year classess that anglers are now catching. The walleye are growing faster, so they are being caught before they get a chance to spawn. The trick now is to get these strong year classess to spawning age, and having enough fish for all users. Not sure how that is going to be done, I beleive the Total allowable harvest for the lake is estimated at around 30 000 kg for this year and estimates are winter anglers caught 14 000 kg, almost half is gone with no summer angling and no NFN or Dokis or Metis harvest. These are numbers heard through the grapevine. Personally lake needs to shut down to all (walleye fishing) for a couple years and re evaluate, other wise we will be looking at a perch fishery. Hope this makes some sense, I tend to jump around with my thoughts. I appologize. Have a great day all. Thanks for your input Crosshairs... I certainly don't agree with everything that you mentioned, but I will say that you provide a valuable resource for us here. I have been frustrated by this topic for quite some time... it has caused me to do some reading on the topic, so that I can make a personal, informed decision. I realize that First Nations have their rights (agree or not it doesn't matter, nothing will change) so we as anglers should be concentrating on things we can change. -stocking the lake - somebody do it! Frankly as an angler, I don't care who does it, as long as it gets done. -removal of cormorant nests and a cull of all those flying rats ALl other issues as far as I can tell, might as well be cast in stone. Nothing is going to change that, even if there was/is a will to do so. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Oh... and by the way... my family DID NOT GET A FEED of Nip Pickereye's this year... did I catch enough for a feed for four... yup! Did I release all but two, under the slot... Yup! Could I have kept a slot fish, yah, I could have, but that is not what people who respect the law do... so no Pickereye dinner at my house! HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosshairs Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I didn't say that at all, i said everyone taking fish is to blame. The first nations 40 000 walleye is nothing to the 80 000 plus angler harvest coming out. Please don't walk on egg shells on my behalf, and you are right by the time your government shuts the angler walleye fishery down and the NFN shut down their walleye fishery it will be to late. Hence the political grandstanding. You can rationalize it anyway you like, spew statistics ad nauseum, but you can't tell me that 26,000kg's of fish removed by nets isn't harming an already threatened fishery. I'm sick and tired of a certain faction that is so politically correct regarding this issue, walking on eggshells and skirting the true problem. Political correctness be damned. Unfortunately no truly decisive action will be taken by our government until it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Great discussion all. I posted earlier here that I believed the reason the ministry denied the group permission to stock was the concern over introducing VHS disease into the fishery. Maybe maybe not. What I do read here is a repeating opinion that the lack of enforcement by the MNR as a problem. Going to the root cause it wouldn't be a lack of enforcement it would in fact be those individuals keeping more than 2 walleye a day. We always think of poachers as someone netting, spearing, trapping and using explosives to get dozens or hundreds of fish at a single time. If a sports fisherman keeps only 1 more fish than allowed per day, for any reason, that person is simply a poacher. Be it when limits were 6 and no slot size or now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosshairs Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) Oh... and by the way... my family DID NOT GET A FEED of Nip Pickereye's this year... did I catch enough for a feed for four... yup! Did I release all but two, under the slot... Yup! Could I have kept a slot fish, yah, I could have, but that is not what people who respect the law do... so no Pickereye dinner at my house! HH My family either, don't have time kids hockey keeps me running all winter long. Kind of embarrassed to say this but tilapia isn't that bad. lol Edited April 2, 2013 by crosshairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Part of the concern of when and how the NFN takes fish is that they are taken in the spawning grounds. Let them breed in peace at least. jmho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosshairs Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Part of the concern of when and how the NFN takes fish is that they are taken in the spawning grounds. Let them breed in peace at least. jmho I agree totally.They have regulated the spawn, there is no netting anymore a minimal spearing for personal use. The 4 strong year classes coincide with NFN's spring moratorium, it is working. NFN has the same problem OMNR have, they have to be careful because these are constitutionally protected rights. It is working now because it is community driven, community had a vote and hence the laws came into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagle dad Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 stocking not the answer imo look at the whole picture...the oceans for example...tell me its not overfishing that's the problem the more u put in the more they will take in Ontario lakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 The whole point of self sustaining is to have the natural breeders replace the ones taken out. I don't think anyone thinks that is happening. Need to reduce the take on all fronts, clean up and protect spawning grounds, and let the current breeders spawn. A few years of "No Take" on ALL fronts with a vastly reduced take would go a long way. There are some risks involved with farming and what not, by inadvertently introducing disease and poor genetics. Look at what is happening out west with the Salmon. All good intentions but look at the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagle dad Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 fished the kawarthas for many yrs have watched stocks dwindle with slot sizes and reduced numbers to keep have seen lakes start to bounce back.. the first lakes to show an increase in stocks where the lakes that had slots introduced early its not the slots that helped imo its the fact that people no longer fished those lakes because of size limits therefore slow the harvest and you'll increase the populations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Caster Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 People have probably harvested more walleye in Nipissing this year than in other years, simply out of spite. I've seen and/or heard of this many times and can honestly say I didnt' participate... I can't believe well-minded people would think that punishing the walleye population makes any kind of valuable point, but they are out there, in large numbers too, me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagle dad Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 TOTAL LACK OF EDUCATION COMBINED WITH NO COMMON SENSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) My family either, don't have time kids hockey keeps me running all winter long. Kind of embarrassed to say this but tilapia isn't that bad. lolTilapia Sucks... like lipstick on a pig... no matter how you cook it, it sucks! Has there been any discussion with the MNR and NFN regarding cormorants? Appreciate your help... HH Edited April 2, 2013 by Headhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Caster Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 It's not lack of education...some of these people may be educating your children! It's a me me me attitude or they just dont care about Nipissing or they hate the politics so much that they feel the rules don't apply to them. The only real deterent I've seen so far is lake enforcement...I've seen a few pants nearly get soiled haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagle dad Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I see it as a overall problem in Ontario it will catch up with us all eventually but still believe stocking not the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmer Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 fished the kawarthas for many yrs have watched stocks dwindle with slot sizes and reduced numbers to keep have seen lakes start to bounce back.. the first lakes to show an increase in stocks where the lakes that had slots introduced early its not the slots that helped imo its the fact that people no longer fished those lakes because of size limits therefore slow the harvest and you'll increase the populations The MNR had the same response to stocking kawartha lakes. Something about ruining the strain, but they were also originally stocked. I'll be interested to see if no one shows up on Pigeon Lake for opening walleye this year due to the reduced limits and slot; it's usually looking like downtown out on the water for the opening. I haven't seen it bounce back yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagle dad Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 the lake I was referring to was balsam most the anglers moved on to pigeon , rice,sturgeon slot was on balsam before rest of kawarthas...the balsam walleye are back but not the anglers...they not liking balsam slots and limits ok with me have lots of fun catching fish not filleting them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmer Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 the lake I was referring to was balsam most the anglers moved on to pigeon , rice,sturgeon slot was on balsam before rest of kawarthas...the balsam walleye are back but not the anglers...they not liking balsam slots and limits ok with me have lots of fun catching fish not filleting them I hope we see that on the other kawartha lakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Balsam is a great lake to fish and has the best campground south of Algonquin imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 the lake I was referring to was balsam most the anglers moved on to pigeon , rice,sturgeon slot was on balsam before rest of kawarthas...the balsam walleye are back but not the anglers...they not liking balsam slots and limits ok with me have lots of fun catching fish not filleting them you do realize the recovery of balsalm lake had as much to do with stocking as reduced limits? balsalm lake association had egg boxes all over the lake rearing fry for release, that has more to do with it than anything. the eye fisihing on the kawarthas is cyclical sturgeon and rice were fantastic for lots of eyes while tri lakes were average and scugog was way down, difference between 4-6 fish is negligable and there isn't really enough enforcement to say the law is being adhered to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Think of all the great fishing we have now that would not be there without stocking. Do you like to catch fish? Then start stocking now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Think of all the great fishing we have now that would not be there without stocking. Do you like to catch fish? Then start stocking now. Stocking should be a last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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