Pickerel stocking on Nipissing axed

[Radnine]

All to often they are not native fry.

Leave the Natives out of this!!!

Jim

[glen]

what genetic strain needs protecting? walleye is not natural to nip and is a stock fish to begin with stock away I say, rehabilite some stocking grounds to get natural recruitment numbers up, responsible harvest ,actual enforcment and polluting laws will all help bring nip back to it's former glory

Great info here thank you.

 

So they are not native but you can't stock them now. Only the NMR could come up with crap like that.

[Fisherman]

Leave the Natives out of this!!!

Jim

Edited April 1, 2013 by Fisherman

[Headhunter]

Yellow Pickeral were introduced into Nip in the 50's, if my memory is correct. Native Pickereyes were what we call Blue Pickereal... netting and over harvest destroyed the stocks. The MNR introduced Yellow Pickeral to replentish the lake.

In a nut shell, Yellows are not native.

If folks were really intenet on helping the fishery, they would be patrolling the lake, this spring, looking for and disabling nets strung across spawing rivers and creeks. Something needs to be done about the cormorant population as well.

It's quite evident from many of the other threads here that nothing can or will be done with the commercial fishery and it's take from the lake.

And yes, this was our best ice fishing season on Nip with many under 14inch fish caught.

HH

[Rod Caster]

Now I'm aware that many people depend on nip for their living and many if us enjoy it for recreation. What about a ban on Pickerel altogether? Catch and release for a determined amount of time. I'm not too sure how long it takes for a species to regenerate but after spending a good amount of time on simcoe this winter it sure seems to have worked for the Cisco. It will be a bitter pill to swallow for many of us but it allows a natural strain to regenerate and helps the fishery survive for many years to come. I believe it took almost a decade for Cisco numbers to return. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Bill

If they closed nipissing to walleye, other lakes would get fished out real quick. Nipissing can handle the pressure MUCH better than most lakes in this area, and much easier to monitor....take a look at the brook trout fishing...every GD lake is stocked or dead now because idiots poached the S out of them over the years.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Rod Caster

[dhickey]

Leave the Natives out of this!!!

Jim

Compleetly out of text and uncalled for...

[Fisherman]

 

Leave the Natives out of this!!!

Jim

Duh, he means native fry..ya know, baby fish native to the lake and it's watershed.

[dhickey]

Yellow Pickeral were introduced into Nip in the 50's, if my memory is correct. Native Pickereyes were what we call Blue Pickereal... netting and over harvest destroyed the stocks. The MNR introduced Yellow Pickeral to replentish the lake.

In a nut shell, Yellows are not native.

If folks were really intenet on helping the fishery, they would be patrolling the lake, this spring, looking for and disabling nets strung across spawing rivers and creeks. Something needs to be done about the cormorant population as well.

It's quite evident from many of the other threads here that nothing can or will be done with the commercial fishery and it's take from the lake.

And yes, this was our best ice fishing season on Nip with many under 14inch fish caught.

HH

I fish a lake where blue pickeral were considerd gone 20yrs ago.

Guess what?

They are there and thriving along with muskie.

The lake was all but fished out except for bass due to greed.

Its now become the silent playground.

 

As for cormorants they should be shot on site!!!

 

Don

[Nipfisher]

Yellow Pickeral were introduced into Nip in the 50's, if my memory is correct. Native Pickereyes were what we call Blue Pickereal... netting and over harvest destroyed the stocks. The MNR introduced Yellow Pickeral to replentish the lake.

In a nut shell, Yellows are not native.

If folks were really intenet on helping the fishery, they would be patrolling the lake, this spring, looking for and disabling nets strung across spawing rivers and creeks. Something needs to be done about the cormorant population as well.

It's quite evident from many of the other threads here that nothing can or will be done with the commercial fishery and it's take from the lake.

And yes, this was our best ice fishing season on Nip with many under 14inch fish caught.

HH

 

HUGE fines for manipulating or removing nets. Enforced by MNR. My friend got one caught in his prop (damaged his skag) and he dragged it to shore. It was unmarked and had no tags on it. Guess what? When he reported it he was charged by MNR and investigated by OPP and native police.

[moxie]

Decades of time and oodles of dough re mi wasted and/or thrown at squeaky wheels and now in a time of crisis everyone is clamoring for a solution. After years of supporting rural areas while pursuing my passion for angling and watching the insane repetition with which these scenarios continue I can only speak for myself when I say "Good luck Lake Nip, but I'll fish elsewhere. Gimme a call if you ever get your crap together, or don't"

[davey buoy]

I'd also say this is a great and interesting disscussion! .!

[Radnine]

All to often they are not native fry.

 

 

Leave the Natives out of this!!!

Jim

 

 

Duh, he means native fry..ya know, baby fish native to the lake and it's watershed.

 

 

WHAT???? The natives are frying baby fish!!!! That should be stopped right away!

Great thread guys, I'm learning tons.

Jim

Edited April 2, 2013 by Radnine

[dhickey]

Wallies live to be anywhere from 12 to 20 yrs old depending on presure. (fishing and water conditions)

They start to spawn at 3- 4yrs old

They do not need rivers to spawn.

 

You guys may be in for a 6-7 yr lull in pickeral fishing.

Go after the muskie that is their biggest problem.

 

Be prepared to see the slot size increase.

MNR posted a study saying that the fish being cought havent had the chance to spawn therfore the fish are younger than 4yrs old but fit into a slot size that is not alowing the fish to reproduce??

The same study also pionted out the fact that they grow into the slot size at a younger age2-3yrs not being mature enough to spawn.

This would sudjest that the fry have a good food chain in front of them and very little competion?

Thus they grow at an excelled rate?

 

My take on it.

Not only that but given climate change over the past few years its easy to see how warmer temps could cause fish to grow at a faster rate along with other problems such as alge blooms.

 

Granted I am not a scientist but an avid outdoors man and I see changes on a regular bassis.

It becomes our responsibility to adjust and preserve..

[woodenboater]

It becomes our responsibility to adjust and preserve..

 

So true and sometimes this gets lost.

 

thanks for reminding us 'dawg

[Nipfisher]

Wallies live to be anywhere from 12 to 20 yrs old depending on presure. (fishing and water conditions) Don, Great points. I would be VERY suprised to find a walleye over 15 yrs. old in Lake Nipissing. Too many nets to avoid for big fish.

They start to spawn at 3- 4yrs old

They do not need rivers to spawn.

 

You guys may be in for a 6-7 yr lull in pickeral fishing. Probably in year 5-7 range right now according to regular anglers of this lake.

Go after the muskie that is their biggest problem. Muskie much prefer the cisco (herring), suckers, and whitefish. More fat content and no spiny fins so not so hard to swallow.

 

Be prepared to see the slot size increase. I hope they don't go ay smaller then 40 cms. because that is almost all we are catching.

MNR posted a study saying that the fish being cought havent had the chance to spawn therfore the fish are younger than 4yrs old but fit into a slot size that is not alowing the fish to reproduce??

The same study also pionted out the fact that they grow into the slot size at a younger age2-3yrs not being mature enough to spawn.

This would sudjest that the fry have a good food chain in front of them and very little competion? In last few years reports from MNR biologists suggest that there has been a influx of smelt in Lakre Nipissing and that the walleye feed heavily on the schools of fat rich bait fish.

Thus they grow at an excelled rate? Just a guess, but my guess is that a 40 cm (15 3/4") walleye from Nipissing is 3-4 years old.

 

My take on it.

Not only that but given climate change over the past few years its easy to see how warmer temps could cause fish to grow at a faster rate along with other problems such as alge blooms.

 

Granted I am not a scientist but an avid outdoors man and I see changes on a regular bassis.

It becomes our responsibility to adjust and preserve..

[dhickey]

 

Wallies live to be anywhere from 12 to 20 yrs old depending on presure. (fishing and water conditions) Don, Great points. I would be VERY suprised to find a walleye over 15 yrs. old in Lake Nipissing. Too many nets to avoid for big fish.

They start to spawn at 3- 4yrs old

They do not need rivers to spawn.

 

You guys may be in for a 6-7 yr lull in pickeral fishing. Probably in year 5-7 range right now according to regular anglers of this lake.

Go after the muskie that is their biggest problem. Muskie much prefer the cisco (herring), suckers, and whitefish. More fat content and no spiny fins so not so hard to swallow.

 

Be prepared to see the slot size increase. I hope they don't go ay smaller then 40 cms. because that is almost all we are catching.

MNR posted a study saying that the fish being cought havent had the chance to spawn therfore the fish are younger than 4yrs old but fit into a slot size that is not alowing the fish to reproduce??

The same study also pionted out the fact that they grow into the slot size at a younger age2-3yrs not being mature enough to spawn.

This would sudjest that the fry have a good food chain in front of them and very little competion? In last few years reports from MNR biologists suggest that there has been a influx of smelt in Lakre Nipissing and that the walleye feed heavily on the schools of fat rich bait fish.

Thus they grow at an excelled rate? Just a guess, but my guess is that a 40 cm (15 3/4") walleye from Nipissing is 3-4 years old.

 

My take on it.

Not only that but given climate change over the past few years its easy to see how warmer temps could cause fish to grow at a faster rate along with other problems such as alge blooms.

 

Granted I am not a scientist but an avid outdoors man and I see changes on a regular bassis.

It becomes our responsibility to adjust and preserve..

????

Excuse me.

Dont twist my words..

So your saying that there is lots of food for younge fish and that the compitition/muskie/bass /cisscoe are not intrested in pickeral fry?

Or are you saying that the pickeral fry have lots of food and grow fast?

[Nipfisher]

????

Excuse me. You're excused

Dont twist my words. Didn't twist any of your words.

So your saying that there is lots of food for younge fish and that the compitition/muskie/bass /cisscoe are not intrested in pickeral fry? Certainly some walleye fry get eaten by muskie, pike, bass, sheepshead, etc. Lots of suckers, herring, smelt for food. Lots of perch too.

Or are you saying that the pickeral fry have lots of food and grow fast? Lots of food but my guess was that a 15" walleye from Nipissing is 3-4 years old. I may be wrong.

[solopaddler]

For those of you stating that walleye stocking is a band aid solution and isn't the answer I beg to differ if done properly.

 

Just south of Nip lies Memesagamesing lake. A large deep, clear shield lake that's part of the Pickeral River system.

 

When we first fished this lake 27 odd years ago catching a walleye was a rarity. There was a remnant population but certainly not fishable numbers.

 

Can't remember the exact year but round about 15 years ago the outfitters and cottagers association on the lake started their own walleye hatchery run by volunteers all with the MNR's blessing. They net wild native fish from the lone spawning creek each spring, strip them of eggs and milt, then hatch and raise the fingerlings in tanks adjacent to the spawning creek. When they're the right size they're released back into the lake.

 

About 10 years ago the walleye population in that lake exploded and it's now an incredibly vibrant and healthy fishery with not only numbers of fish, but trophy sized fish.

 

I've seen the results first hand and have been amazed, it's a true success story.

 

The same thing could easily be done on Nip. But on Nip it would only ever be a band aid solution if native netting is allowed to continue.

 

[Rod Caster]

For those of you stating that walleye stocking is a band aid solution and isn't the answer I beg to differ if done properly.

 

Just south of Nip lies Memesagamesing lake. A large deep, clear shield lake that's part of the Pickeral River system.

 

When we first fished this lake 27 odd years ago catching a walleye was a rarity. There was a remnant population but certainly not fishable numbers.

 

Can't remember the exact year but round about 15 years ago the outfitters and cottagers association on the lake started their own walleye hatchery run by volunteers all with the MNR's blessing. They net wild native fish from the lone spawning creek each spring, strip them of eggs and milt, then hatch and raise the fingerlings in tanks adjacent to the spawning creek. When they're the right size they're released back into the lake.

 

About 10 years ago the walleye population in that lake exploded and it's now an incredibly vibrant and healthy fishery with not only numbers of fish, but trophy sized fish.

 

I've seen the results first hand and have been amazed, it's a true success story.

 

The same thing could easily be done on Nip. But on Nip it would only ever be a band aid solution if native netting is allowed to continue.

 

That is at Matthews Camp (at least they were one of the groups doing it)...they have now stopped that program, I believe due to the fact that it was successful.

 

I believe the First Nations will be managing lake Nipissing very soon...the MNR will work in tandem with them, with their blessings. Just a guess, but I don't see how things are going any other way right now.

[solopaddler]

That is at Matthews Camp (at least they were one of the groups doing it)...they have now stopped that program, I believe due to the fact that it was successful.

 

Johhny Mathews played a part for sure, but the two driving forces behind the program are Dave Weber of Camp Sagamesing and Tom Beck of Parolin's Camp. Both have devoted countless hours to the program and continue to do so.

 

It hasn't been stopped either, it's still going strong. I toured the hatchery facilty with Tom Beck when I was up there in Feb.

[crosshairs]

I know Commercial netting is always mentioned, and the misconceptions all start coming out so here is some information on the NFN harvest.

 

Nipissing first nation commercial fishers for the past 2 years have been harvesting under 20 000kg, add in nets lost, due to weather or tampering, corrections for catch forms etc the harvest is bumped up to 26000 kg. Rather than talk weight lets talk fish, this equals roughly 40 000 fish. 30% of these are biosampled by the biologist. Enforcement is auditing 4 random days a week, observing catch while lifting, checking all gear is legal etc. There is about 10 commercial boats out per night. So the enforcement ratio is pretty high and all biologist reports are peer reveiwed.

 

They are doing this voluntarily, and are being held to the highest standards. Documentation is very important to them, and personally I think they are preparing for a court case, either defending themselves or challengeing the government for mismangement.

 

Sure it is natives policing themselves, but who is policing the anglers??

 

There is no sound data for the angler harvest, creel is voluntary and enforcement well outta my 30 plus years on the lake I have seen them twice, and that includes me setting nets for personal use, spearing and angling. This is nothing against the Co's their orders come from peterborough.How ever it is spelt.

 

Now NFN commercial takes out 40000 fish lets add 10000 for personal use for a total of 50000 fish for the community. Anglers have 10 weekends from Jan to March closing. Lets use the 2000 huts with 1 angler in shack all weekend. Day 1 he/she catches 2 walleye for dinner so he/she can fish on day 2 to catch 2 more to take home. That is 8000 fish a weekend or 80 000 fish over the winter (weekends) not including during the week or soft water. And we all know there is only 1 per shack.

 

We`are all to blame for the situation. NFN has a set quota, it has been at 37000kg for the past few years and this years regs are being reviewed according to our their newletter. Anglers do not have a quota, only an individual limit so there might be 10 anglers or 100 000 anglers.

 

Like I said earlier, we are all to blame and if we don't take alittle pain now there will be a whole lotta pain later on. The political grandstanding on both sides needs to stop and the right thing needs to be done. The NFN moratorium people laugh at just happens to coincide with the 4 record year classess that anglers are now catching.

 

The walleye are growing faster, so they are being caught before they get a chance to spawn. The trick now is to get these strong year classess to spawning age, and having enough fish for all users. Not sure how that is going to be done, I beleive the Total allowable harvest for the lake is estimated at around 30 000 kg for this year and estimates are winter anglers caught 14 000 kg, almost half is gone with no summer angling and no NFN or Dokis or Metis harvest. These are numbers heard through the grapevine.

 

Personally lake needs to shut down to all (walleye fishing) for a couple years and re evaluate, other wise we will be looking at a perch fishery.

 

Hope this makes some sense, I tend to jump around with my thoughts. I appologize.

 

Have a great day all.

[crosshairs]

NFN has also asked the OMNR if they would train NFN enforcement to be full fledge CO's, and NFN would still cover the wages sinse they are on the lake alot and have several issues hunting. 2 extra people on the lake and in the bush at minimal cost seems like a win win, but OMNR have not responded since late November. So do they really want to work together with any group to help better things, I think their actions speak volumes.

[Nipfisher]

Clayton, I am so glad you have taken your time to comment here.

The theme of this thread is in response to the MNR dismissing the private stocking program presented by the LNSA. I certainly do not blame Native netting for the downfall of the walleye population however, it plays a part as you mention. This was the best walleye year in many on the Lake but these caught fish were generally 12-20" and premature for spawning. I would LOVE to see more enforcement on this lake. I feel many anglers realize there are few MNR in this area and are rarely seen on the big lake. Therefor the take advantage of good catch days and may keep slot sized fish as well.

 

The concern I have for the netting is only that "anglers must release slot sized fish but they can be harvested in the nets. I know the net "squares" were adjusted to allow smaller fish to swim through and I believe many bigger fish can hit the nets and swim away without getting caught however those prime spanwers get caught for harvest.

Agreed that slot sized fish were kept in huts and bungalows this winter.

[Rod Caster]

NFN has also asked the OMNR if they would train NFN enforcement to be full fledge CO's, and NFN would still cover the wages sinse they are on the lake alot and have several issues hunting. 2 extra people on the lake and in the bush at minimal cost seems like a win win, but OMNR have not responded since late November. So do they really want to work together with any group to help better things, I think their actions speak volumes.

Beautiful! I hope this gets realized. Again, my thoughts are that NFN will get more and more control of the management of the lake.

[Nipfisher]

Clayton, and others who may have missed this post by Rod Caster. I like the thinking Chad. Hope you don't mind that I re-posted it in this thread.

 

http://ontariofishingcommunity.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=67033&page=4

 

Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:02 PM

The MNR didn't reduce the catch limit because of the decline in walleye, they did it as an olive branch to the First Nations... imo.

 

If my opinion is at all correct, then here is my supposition: they are not allowing the private stakeholders to stock the lake because, there isn't a need for it (fish pop's are not that bad) and the MNR is trying to reduce their own and private industry involvement. What they may be aiming for is a larger contribution from FIrst Nations on Lake Nipissing (and other lakes), which may mean that they are leaning towards the FN doing more in terms of lake management and/or stocking. The FN already wants more control of these things and some bands already do significant stocking/management programs. If the MNR is starting to pass-on the torch, then they won't be making any significant management decisions...as we are seeing right now.

 

 

The way I see it, the FN may actually do a better job at managing the lake than the MNR ever has.... if they have full control and the proper resources. How many of you are actually happy with the way the MNR manages things up north, or anywhere else for that matter? They keep getting cut back and seem to have less and less ability/talent to actually make proper decisions. If the FN have it their way, I think they'll do a great job because they won't hold a grudge anymore and they'll be working with a lot of pride...with a lot of prove.

 

All my opinion.... The MNR just seems to be at a stalemate on this topic, to me, this is a valid hypothesis.