dhickey Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Well I certanly would not be intrested in starting a sled with a string at 7.30 am when its -40 combine that with cold ellectronics(fuel injection) and you would probably be going back into the cotage for a coffee and warm up you hands along with a few choice words along the way. Just my (exp) thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limeyangler Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Well I certanly would not be intrested in starting a sled with a string at 7.30 am when its -40 combine that with cold ellectronics(fuel injection) and you would probably be going back into the cotage for a coffee and warm up you hands along with a few choice words along the way. Just my (exp) thoughts. I am getting a block heater for it, carrying jumper cables wherever i go( i know no use if i am alone), there is an onboard charger available as well as battery blankets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhickey Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I am getting a block heater for it, carrying jumper cables wherever i go( i know no use if i am alone), there is an onboard charger available as well as battery blankets. Sounds like weight might become a problem? That also would make the sled harder to handle in most off trail situations.? Its always nice to be prepared for any forseable problem but when the going gets unexpectedly hard lighter is better not only that but sacrificing perfomance for the sake of (what if I need it)can get you in trouble. travel lite thats my motto in the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppy Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) https://northtoronto...st.php?event=54 This is where I get my fishing machines because I'm cheap / broke. I even bought one online while participating in the fishing for Tyler derby a couple of winters ago. Edited November 8, 2012 by Hoppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Thats a great sled for fishing and bush whacking, Simon. Your gonna love it! S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I posted this thread on an icefishing forum....had a couple replies saying this machine is very tippy, I can kind of see why this might be with the suspension system and skinny ski stance........... any thought on this folks? 43 inches is not skinny, as for tippy many of the modern rider foward designs may appear tippy because you are sitting higher and with sleds built the last 15 years for the most part actually have suspension travel (i remember my 433gpx with a whopping 3 inches of travel if that)they handle better ride better, skandics or tundras are made for bushwhacking ice fishing running trap lines ect and are about the lightest of the utility sleds available it's a good choice enjoy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F7Firecat Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Well I certanly would not be intrested in starting a sled with a string at 7.30 am when its -40 combine that with cold ellectronics(fuel injection) and you would probably be going back into the cotage for a coffee and warm up you hands along with a few choice words along the way. Just my (exp) thoughts. Two pulls and a efi sled will start in the coldest of weather, 1st pull sets the efi for the conditions second pull it fires up, no fumling with the choke or throttle to get it to go like the old carb models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limeyangler Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Right on Simon, sounds like you've got the right sled in mind.. Is it ok if I'm a little jealous? LOL!!! I give you full permission Bill...right up till the point the piston pops out! this is my 2010 Yamaha vector GT long track awesome sled and starts at -25 no problem !!!! And well the reliability is the best there is !!!! And yes it's a four stroke !! You might want to look at a 2 up venture or the Viking !!! It will pull a hut and anything else no problems as well !!! Eever since seeing the venture lite a few years back i wanted one....but over the years i have been leaning more towards a utilty type sled. The viking looks good as do many other brands that make utility sleds...i just think the viking/bearcats/IQ600Widetracks/Skandics are overkill for what i want a sled for. Simon if you buy that Tundra LT I will be extremely jealous!! Nice sled man, hope to see it in person this winter. Not long to go now... ICE is coming!! If i get it Ben you will for sure see it out on Bull...cant wait to try the GPS out on those depth contours we found. Tops on my wish list. Enjoy! good to hear, gives me a little more confidence to hear other people think this sled is a good choice. stick to the 4 stroke it'll outlast the chassis, when it comes to there 2 stroke BRP means Bring Rods and Pistons Will do! I am hearing some good things about the ACE600 That will be a big improvement over your old sled Simon. Less likely to get extremely wet with that one "The only thing that is worrying me is no pull start..." That would be my only concern as well, knowing the out of the way places some of us get to. I've never tried to manually start a cold 4 stroke, so not to sure if it should be a concern or not. Yeah......i mean its rare i go on long excursions alone....but dropping the sort of cash i will be....i really dont want to have niggling worries about anything! But i am researching the options to lower the risks of being stuck out on the ice unable to start your ride home! LOL.....Thank goodness you were there that day to unstuck the purple beast from el slusheroony....i was soaked....lol...GOOD TIMES! I have a 380 Skandic 2-up and it is a bit tippy on some surfaces. It just takes a litle more active riding - moving around on the sled to balance it. I rarely go much over 40-60km on lakes and less on trails while towing an otter sled. More stable with two people. The narrow ski width (43") helps me a lot while moving through the bush. I really wouldn't worry about it. My next sled will be another Skandic or Expedition. BTW my pull cord riped out last year while 30km or so from anywhere. Luckly I had some rope! The ski stance on the Tundra is actually 32". Expedition looks nice too. https://northtoronto...st.php?event=54 This is where I get my fishing machines because I'm cheap / broke. I even bought one online while participating in the fishing for Tyler derby a couple of winters ago. We dont have that much choice up here....you are lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limeyangler Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Thats a great sled for fishing and bush whacking, Simon. Your gonna love it! S. Good to know Sinker...i think i'm getting closer to getting one. 43 inches is not skinny, as for tippy many of the modern rider foward designs may appear tippy because you are sitting higher and with sleds built the last 15 years for the most part actually have suspension travel (i remember my 433gpx with a whopping 3 inches of travel if that)they handle better ride better, skandics or tundras are made for bushwhacking ice fishing running trap lines ect and are about the lightest of the utility sleds available it's a good choice enjoy it Its actually 11" skinnier than that ...32" to be precise...do you think that will be a problem? Two pulls and a efi sled will start in the coldest of weather, 1st pull sets the efi for the conditions second pull it fires up, no fumling with the choke or throttle to get it to go like the old carb models It does not have pull start...any pull starting would be an attempt to get the clutch to spin with a belt or piece of rope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemcmillan Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I will second the long tracks, I have a 96 ski doo grand touring, geat for all around use and 2006 Yamaha Venture Tf with a 151 long track, this thing will pull a house. I have always been a ski doo fan but you just can't beat the reliability of a 4 stroke Yamaha. Alos I think the ski stance on your new sled is 42 not 32. I don't think you will find any sleds out there with a 32 inch ski stance, maybe the old elans. either way you will love the technology of the new machines. a pic of my Venture, I can't wait for the cold & snow. Have fun with your new ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Simon That stance is pretty skinny. I thought you may have been mistaken but checked the site and it is indeed 32" on the Tundra and the Skandic isn't much wider at 35 and change. If it were me, I would get one of those Yamaha Venture Lites. They have a 43" stance (the same as my Venture GT). Much more stable and I haven't really had any issues in the bush getting around with the extra width. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 the skinny stance is fine if your into some back country boondocking, there that skinny so it's easy to lay on its side but not most stable ride, if your breaking trail in the backcountry and there is lots and lots of base this is what there made for. lots of choices out there for utility sleds. i am a yamaha fan but a rs viking is a 700+lb beast with a 151x20 track that will go anywhere but around 15k, both skidoo and polaris have some decent priced utilitys in low to med power ranges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbait22 Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 In the end you need to ask yourself if you will be 1) riding on lakes 2) riding on trails 3) riding long distances 4) breaking trail The first three mean a comfortable heavier higher hp sled would do. Remote lakes where few go mean a lighter sled because you'll be on your own to dig out when you get stuck. A light sled helps you not get stuck but also get unstuck easier. Know how to get unstuck. There is also riding technique to avoid getting stuck. http://www2.snowmobilecourse.com/wisconsin/study?chapter=5&page=15 Just for my own interest here are the mass to surface area stats for different sleds. Total area is not what actually sit on the ground but it's all relative hopefully. Width Length Area Mass lb/sq 24 154 3696 666 0.180 Skandic SWT 16 163 2608 472 0.181 Summit X 800 16 154 2464 455 0.185 Summit Sport 800 16 146 2336 432 0.185 Summit Sport 600 20 154 3080 600 0.195 Skandic SUV 16 154 2464 483 0.196 Tundra LT 16 154 2464 489 0.198 Freeride 15 136 2040 406 0.199 Bravo 20 154 3080 613 0.199 Expedition LE 16 154 2464 515 0.209 Expedition Sport 20 154 3080 657 0.213 Expedition SE 600 16 137 2192 495 0.226 GT Sport 550F 15 136 2040 471 0.231 380 Skandic 1997 20 154 3080 720 0.234 Viking Pro 15 144 2160 593 0.275 Venture Lite 15 137 2055 567 0.276 GT LE 15 137 2055 600 0.292 GT SE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limeyangler Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) In the end you need to ask yourself if you will be 1) riding on lakes 2) riding on trails 3) riding long distances 4) breaking trail The first three mean a comfortable heavier higher hp sled would do. Remote lakes where few go mean a lighter sled because you'll be on your own to dig out when you get stuck. A light sled helps you not get stuck but also get unstuck easier. Know how to get unstuck. There is also riding technique to avoid getting stuck. http://www2.snowmobilecourse.com/wisconsin/study?chapter=5&page=15 Just for my own interest here are the mass to surface area stats for different sleds. Total area is not what actually sit on the ground but it's all relative hopefully. Width Length Area Mass lb/sq 24 154 3696 666 0.180 Skandic SWT 16 163 2608 472 0.181 Summit X 800 16 154 2464 455 0.185 Summit Sport 800 16 146 2336 432 0.185 Summit Sport 600 20 154 3080 600 0.195 Skandic SUV 16 154 2464 483 0.196 Tundra LT 16 154 2464 489 0.198 Freeride 15 136 2040 406 0.199 Bravo 20 154 3080 613 0.199 Expedition LE 16 154 2464 515 0.209 Expedition Sport 20 154 3080 657 0.213 Expedition SE 600 16 137 2192 495 0.226 GT Sport 550F 15 136 2040 471 0.231 380 Skandic 1997 20 154 3080 720 0.234 Viking Pro 15 144 2160 593 0.275 Venture Lite 15 137 2055 567 0.276 GT LE 15 137 2055 600 0.292 GT SE Ok , I have to admit i have no idea how those numbers translate into stability on the trail/lake etc. What i can say is that the criteria you list are exactly what i have been mulling over since the beginning of the 'sledquest'. I had a touring model before so am familiar with the stability of a wider ski stance machine. I also appreciated the comfort factors. I dont really travel too far but that could change so it has to be reasonably comfortable. I carry passengers regularly so 2 -up is a must. Weight of the sled is definitely a factor...so the lighter the better...i got my old touring model stuck a few times both on my own and with company.....not fun to get unstuck in either situation. As far as breaking trail goes...i dont. But thats only because i never had the sled to attempt that....I would love to have that option with any new sled i got....that is the main reason i am leaning (no pun intended) towards the Tundra LT I love the Yamaha's but dont want to go with the heavier touring models. I have always loved the venture Lite, and always thought that would be my sled if i ever found myself in a position of buying a new or newer sled. However, now i am in that position and i actually started to research whats available.....while i still like those models i am liking the ACE600 more than the 499CC of the yamahas. So.....why oh why cant the Tundra have a slightly wider ski stance!!!!! I am not at all worried about the 'tippy' factor if it was just me riding....i would learn to adapt and no doubt become a better and more confident rider when i mastered the technique. What worries me is having my wife or child riding with me on a tippy machine. So another option is the Expedition Sport...with a ACE600 thrown in, adjustable ski stance of 38.4" or 40.1" with a more conventional suspension and the same 16" x 156" track as the Tundra....its a 2-up touring utility crossover...and still pretty light at 537lbs (Tundra is 505lbs). Only thing is there does not appear to be anything for the passenger to hold onto...and no grips option for that model in accessories!!!! I'll tell you what though....gotta love this forum...so handy to have all this help and advice while trying to decide on my purchase...AWESOME....thanks Edited November 11, 2012 by limeyangler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey buoy Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Ok , I have to admit i have no idea how those numbers translate into stability on the trail/lake etc. What i can say is that the criteria you list are exactly what i have been mulling over since the beginning of the 'sledquest'. I had a touring model before so am familiar with the stability of a wider ski stance machine. I also appreciated the comfort factors. I dont really travel too far but that could change so it has to be reasonably comfortable. I carry passengers regularly so 2 -up is a must. Weight of the sled is definitely a factor...so the lighter the better...i got my old touring model stuck a few times both on my own and with company.....not fun to get unstuck in either situation. As far as breaking trail goes...i dont. But thats only because i never had the sled to attempt that....I would love to have that option with any new sled i got....that is the main reason i am leaning (no pun intended) towards the Tundra I love the Yamaha's but dont want to go with the heavier touring models. I have always loved the venture Lite, and always thought that would be my sled if i ever found myself in a position of buying a new or newer sled. However, now i am in that position and i actually started to research whats available.....while i still like those models i am liking the ACE600 more than the 499CC of the yamahas. So.....why oh why cant the Tundra have a slightly wider ski stance!!!!! I am not at all worried about the 'tippy' factor if it was just me riding....i would learn to adapt and no doubt become a better and more confident rider when i mastered the technique. What worries me is having my wife or child riding with me on a tippy machine. So another option is the Expedition Sport...with a ACE600 thrown in, adjustable ski stance of 38.4" or 40.1" with a more conventional suspension and the same 16" x 156" track as the Tundra....its a 2-up touring utility crossover...and still pretty light at 537lbs (Tundra is 505lbs). Only thing is there does not appear to be anything for the passenger to hold onto...and no grips option for that model in accessories!!!! :wallbash: I'll tell you what though....gotta love this forum...so handy to have all this help and advice while trying to decide on my purchase...AWESOME....thanks It is quite the place isn't it?,I think it's easier buying a car lol. Edited November 11, 2012 by davey buoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakerguy Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Lots of good info here http://www.dootalk.com/forums/forum/30-freestyle-legend-tundra-expedition-sport/ Good luck with the search Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limeyangler Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Lots of good info here http://www.dootalk.com/forums/forum/30-freestyle-legend-tundra-expedition-sport/ Good luck with the search Thanks lakerguy, I've been glued to dootalk for a good couple of weeks now...lol...even registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 http://www.supertraxmag.com/bg_findit.asp play here a little more unbiased as these guys actually ride em all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) not gonna be trying this are you? Edited November 11, 2012 by ecmilley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIFTER_016 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 not gonna be trying this are you? WOW!!! I never noticed that helicopter or any cameramen following me around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfish Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Simon I hear full production is under way. The asking price is only $99 a month for 3 months. <embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid1234.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff417%2Fbrianb64%2Ficefishing2012006.mp4"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I think that guy had no legs so it worked pretty good for him, just needs a bit more weight on the wheels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limeyangler Posted November 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Ok. I think i'm done. After a lots of thought and advice i think i think i have my sled. I thought i was going to get an Skidoo Expedition Sport with a 600ACE engine (4 stroke). However, I noticed while doing some research that the ACE600 might be a bit underpowered at 60hp. This was confirmed to me by a good fishing buddy from Kenora, he has info that the performance of that engine...while outstanding for its class, performed more like a 400. 60hp is not feeble by any means....but i just fear SLUSH! I want to have the power to get through with my hefty Otter 3 man shelter and a passenger. Anyway.....I kinda ended up back looking at the utility sleds.....heavy but powerful with lots of flotation. I'm kinda leaning towards the Expedition LE Rotax 4-Tec 1200 Not much heavier than my old XLT (67lbs heavier to be exact) but it has 130HP (40 hp more than the XLT). Granted it is geared differently and I wont be hitting 90mph......but i'm thinking the xtra HP and the 20" x 154" track and wide skis will deal with heavy slush as good as if not better than my old XLT (15"x133.5"). Advice here would be good....i need edumacating on the horsepower thing....is more HP even with less speed capability going to mean better possibilities of 'POWERING' through slush? What I have realised is that to get my 'perfect' sled that will do everything i want it to i.e.Lightweight, 2-up, on/off trail/breaking trail capable, fuel efficient, good stability and slush friendly, I can Have just about all that except the 'lightweight' aspect. To offset the weight go for power is my train of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakerguy Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Dont be afraid to look at a 600etec...lots of power compared to the ace.I thought about trading up my 2011 renegade 600etec to a 1200 renegade but the the thing that stops me is the 1200 in any configuration just seems like a tank imo. We just purchased a renegade 600ace and brought it home yesterday,couldnt resist ripping it across the lawn....the little ace rips for a 60 odd hp sled. If i was in the market for a sled for what your looking for it probably would have the 600etec in it...great on gas(approx 350 km per tank)doesn't stink like the old 2 strokes,does not use alot of oil,makes decent hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 yes hp will power through slush, don't be worried about the bit of extra weight from the 4-tech it is a bomb proof engine easily outlast the chassis while the e-tech is the top of line 2 stoke it is still a 2 stroke and engine life can be a concern, double check the stats as well think the e tech requires premium fuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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