whiskywizard Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 And that would be the merchants on the Trent-Severn system? Yes, plus the residents and other users. We as a ______________ (insert country, province, town, etc here) can no longer afford to provide everything to everybody. Pick the things you like to do, and do them. But be prepared to pay for them too. There's no free lunch.
smally21 Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) i suppose i was considering just docks and locks to be manmade but yes i see the whole system to be a creation of dams and such. gothca. if the trent severn area wants to charge for use, you can bet say, the french river area will want to charge for its use as well. lake scugog is also manmade. i would say most/ ok many, lake systems are controlled by dams and other installed water control measures. while corrected on the man made part, i still dont see boating down the lake the same as i see renting a racquet ball court for an hour or getting unlimited text messages. would you put some coins in a slot to sit on a park bench, or walk down the beach? and look at the lake, or just a few bucks to canoe on it? Edited June 22, 2012 by smally21
ecmilley Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 I'd bet we all agree on this. We all pay for the services we want. phone, cellular, internet, gym memberships, etc., etc. Why should anybody get free access to, and benefit from, a man-made system that costs a great deal of money to maintain and operate? Why not assess a fee for just those folks who get direct benefit and pleasure? can you tell me why i should pay for access to a "man made" lake that was built and maintained by public money to begin with. will i need a 2 year contract to fish in it will there be a penalty if i fish in another lake? no different than the mnr fiasco, take the moneys it generates cut its services and spend it's money elsewhere, parks canada has had years to make improvements and i am not willing to pay for them, i pay for enough things now
whiskywizard Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 can you tell me why i should pay for access to a "man made" lake that was built and maintained by public money to begin with. will i need a 2 year contract to fish in it will there be a penalty if i fish in another lake? no different than the mnr fiasco, take the moneys it generates cut its services and spend it's money elsewhere, parks canada has had years to make improvements and i am not willing to pay for them, i pay for enough things now I'm not saying I have all the answers here, but I don't think we can continue to use high-cost ammenities for free. Or on the backs of everybody else. Smally21 makes a good point - city parks, for example, are "free", why is that different? I'm not sure where the cutoff has to be. A paved walking trail in Toronto has no user fee, but staying on a campsite in a provincial park costs you money. Where do you draw the line? I don't know. But I think it's good discussion, and the more we talk about it now, the better we are positioned to deal with in future. For some, that will mean fighting it, and for others it might mean planning for the new expense.
Raf Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 if the trent severn area wants to charge for use, you can bet say, the french river area will want to charge for its use as well. the entire french river area, being an operating provincial park, already has fees. day use is still 'free' provided you find a free launch and free place to park.
dave524 Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 What about something similar to the format of the Toronto Harbour Permit for powered watercraft, and a written test
Ralph Field Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 Perhaps if boaters had to pay $20 to launch their boat and instead of a seasonal lock pass a flat rate of $30 each time you use a lock then the fees for cottage owners could be kept to say $1000 per season. There should also be fees for people using parks to access the system say $20/day. This would mean that those using the system are paying to maintain the system.
Musky or Specks Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 the entire french river area, being an operating provincial park, already has fees. day use is still 'free' provided you find a free launch and free place to park. I might not be popular for saying this but I'd like to see this for almost everything with the caveat that the money went back into that resource. But this is politicians we are talking about and I think theres a fat chance of that ever happening. Its pretty simple as our disposable income goes more and more to the bureaucracy we are going to have to pick and chose where and what we do OR tear it down and start again.
smally21 Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) staffman - im going to suggest day use of the trent severn already involves the use of a 20$ boat ramp ( at a private facility ) and the charge of something like 1.60/ft to use the lock one time. it is as you are suggesting at this time methinks. so i would suggest the user fee is already in place. other than the payment of a launch fee, one can boat on the french river without further fees, like just about any other body of water. you could say the use of lake simcoe has user fees, if you were to stay and launch out of a provincial park like sibbald point or something. but there is not a "day use - or seasonal membership" to tool around in your boat. i was just using the french river as an example, perhaps i should have picked another... Edited June 22, 2012 by smally21
Headhunter Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 What gets me is this... we Canadians are already some of the most taxed peoples on the planet. We have mostly accepted this, believing that with those high taxes, we are receiving services from our government. One must only look south of the boarder to see charges for services that we "already get for free" added to an individuals tax burden (a significantly lower initial tax burden, I know!). If we are to become Americanized (and I don't mean that in any way derogatory to our friends to the south), then I DEMAND that my tax base be lowered, to reflect upon my added tax, for services. Period! Getting value for our tax dollars is by far, the biggest steaming pile we have to deal with. It has become a joke, looking at the cost of doing anything in the public realm. One only has to look at the recent Toronto Star expo regarding costs associated with school maintenance at the TDSB. $147.00 to install a pencil sharpener...four screws installed out of the five the unit requires... and two guys to do it!!!! I don't know about you guys, but I can picture the thieves who will get the tenders to do the fixes on the Trent, already calling their stock brokers letting them know they just won the lottery. ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!!!!!!!! We need more of that, then we need new taxes... kinda sounds like the whole 407 debacle to me! HH
fishnsled Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 Accountability?? What is that Joe? I don't think that applies to our politicians. (Boneheads that they are.) And so we spend X - millions of dollars to fix up the locks with the new fee (TAX!) and then what? Will the fees be reduced or removed, no. They'll throw the money else where (say it's in reserve for future repairs) and most likely it into there own pockets in the form of a "raise" for doing such a great job. Read that article yesterday and know where I needed to look for work. Here’s what taxpayers were charged for work done at Toronto public schools: Installing a $17 pencil sharpener: $143 to put in four screws. The installation of a sign on a school’s front lawn: $19,000 An electrical outlet on the wall in a school library: $3,000 A “breakfast club” kitchen: $250,000 Toronto schools pay high prices for small jobs
Headhunter Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 It a mockery of a travesty... I would think that businesses in the area would be outraged at this... people are free to choose where they rent their week or two cottage, every summer. With the prices of cottage rental as well as fuel etc... a further tax may well drive a percentage of business to other areas... the whole thing makes me wanna... HH
glen Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 Let the locks fail and the trentsevern go back to nature.
Marko Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 Everything this government touches turns into an instant joke. How does this help anybody ??? People are going to be pissed about it and do everything to avoid those river systems.....including the cities around them.
Sinker Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 Let the locks fail and the trentsevern go back to nature. ^best idea I've heard yet! I can't stand the thought of what its going to take for my kids to spend a day on the water with thier kids. S.
mrdylan Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 It a mockery of a travesty... I would think that businesses in the area would be outraged at this... people are free to choose where they rent their week or two cottage, every summer. With the prices of cottage rental as well as fuel etc... a further tax may well drive a percentage of business to other areas... the whole thing makes me wanna... HH being the government they will promise them (the business owners) tax cuts etc from the increased revenue and tell fairy tales of the money going back into the severn system itself which I highly doubt and they will all vote for it guess who voted on the HST I know I didn't. The federal gov just cut half the jobs along the trent so your going to be paying fees for an already lesser service that is already designed to drive away tourism. You can thank Harper for this and I know you guys are aware of Bill c 38 (which is supposed to have passed) so the money going back into things such as this are against that bill & basically can't happen. This is just another cash cow to increase local MP's budgets for their own agenda's I don't see this being a good thing.
Dave Bailey Posted June 23, 2012 Report Posted June 23, 2012 We never had a lot of money when I was growing up, but my parents would regularly save up some money for little trips to places like Fenelon Falls and rent a boat so that we could go fishing. A lot of lower income families might not be able to give their children that pleasure if there are extra fees added to things like boat rentals and other water activities. If they have to raise my taxes a little bit to maintain the system that's fine by me, I'll gladly pay an extra couple of bucks a year so that everyone can enjoy it. That's basically the way our health care system runs; everyone pays so that everyone benefits. And who can deny the emotional health benefits of having a free playground for all?
blue pickeral Posted June 24, 2012 Report Posted June 24, 2012 We never had a lot of money when I was growing up, but my parents would regularly save up some money for little trips to places like Fenelon Falls and rent a boat so that we could go fishing. A lot of lower income families might not be able to give their children that pleasure if there are extra fees added to things like boat rentals and other water activities. If they have to raise my taxes a little bit to maintain the system that's fine by me, I'll gladly pay an extra couple of bucks a year so that everyone can enjoy it. That's basically the way our health care system runs; everyone pays so that everyone benefits. And who can deny the emotional health benefits of having a free playground for all? And there's the thing.....the system being open and maintained provides the aspiration to access and the opportunity of using it for everyone. If allowed to deteriorate and close, nobody gets to use it. I feel what everyone else is saying about government wastage...my major pet peeve is all these people that get caught with their hands in the cookie jar, such as the woman previously running Ontario Hydro. You hear of them resigning, but never any charges or punishment. Too embarrasing for governments I guess.
whiskywizard Posted June 24, 2012 Report Posted June 24, 2012 And there's the thing.....the system being open and maintained provides the aspiration to access and the opportunity of using it for everyone. If allowed to deteriorate and close, nobody gets to use it. I feel what everyone else is saying about government wastage...my major pet peeve is all these people that get caught with their hands in the cookie jar, such as the woman previously running Ontario Hydro. You hear of them resigning, but never any charges or punishment. Too embarrasing for governments I guess. That was Eleanor Clitheroe, of Hydro One. Pretty good (bad) example of somebody gouging us all, but she wasn't "government". It was Ernie Eves that turfed her and tried to regain control.
Billy Bob Posted June 25, 2012 Report Posted June 25, 2012 Keep supporting BIG GOVERNMENT and this is what you get in return.....
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