NF - Anyone familar with Construction law?

[tapout]

Hi everyone,

 

Haven't been on in awhile. I usually am on more frequently during ice fishing season. As for my reason for posting now I know I can get reliable advice here as this place has such an amazing variety of helpful and supportive people.

 

My issue is, I am paid as a self-employed sub-trade. I don't have any employees. I work for myself so to speak. My issue is for about 2 and a half months I worked for a new contractor in the framing trade. The agreement was i was to be paid for every hour of work with pay periods not exceeding 2 weeks. He has not paid and we gave him till the monday and he renegged again. We walked off until we are paid and still no sign of being paid. What are the options in regards to small claims court? Anyone in the legal professions? Is it better to just cut my losses and forget about it? Not sure what to do here.

 

Thanks in advance and appreciate any advice.

 

Cheers, and again Thanks.

 

Tony.

[tb4me]

Do you have a signed agreement? If not I wish you luck, but you may have to cut your losses and walk away, hoping he comes to his senses eventually..Sucks big time, but I have been there done that.I feel for ya my man.

[Terry]

20 something years ago you could put a contractors lien on the property that you worked on

 

don't know what the law is now

[Musky or Specks]

Yes I'm sure its time to walk away

[tapout]

20 something years ago you could put a contractors lien on the property that you worked on

 

don't know what the law is now

 

Yeah i was thinking that but from what I've found online I can't go after the "owner" which in this case was the builder. I worked for the contractor. Not sure if I read it right!

 

http://www.ontarioconstructionlaw.ca/lien%20FAQ.htm

[davey buoy]

I'm self employed,always ask for payment in 5 days.But that is only on a reccomendation from someone I know. Other than that,20% up front.I know it won't help you now,but maybe in the future.We have to look after ourselves as know one else will.Hope you can salvage something. davey.

[misfish]

Hi ya Tony.Good to hear from you bye.

 

Thats a crap shoot you got yerself in.

Maybe try and PM skud,if he dosent chime in. He may have some good insight for you.

 

Good luck.

[Terry]

Yeah i was thinking that but from what I've found online I can't go after the "owner" which in this case was the builder. I worked for the contractor. Not sure if I read it right!

 

http://www.ontarioco.../lien%20FAQ.htm

 

if he is a contractor, I don't think it matters that he is also the owner of the property...because he is a contractor

 

but lets hope that someone with up to date info chimes in..but don't give up go after him every way you can....

[F7Firecat]

You can lien the property where you worked for non payment, this does not guarantee ou will get paid by any means but it gives you something to fall back on. Its like putting a legal stake in the property and that stake has to be cleared up before future financial transactions on the property if I understood correctly.

 

Its best you talk to a lawyer but we all know how that goes.

 

I had to file a lien and it cost 1000 dollars to file and then to discharge it was 350 dollars if I remeber correctly. I did get paid in my case, depends on how much they owe you if it is worth it.

 

No one ever wins when a lawyer gets involved.

 

You have 45 days to lien from the date you were last on site, not from the date of invoice. Do not leave it until day 40 or 41, there are a few things you will have to get together before you file the lien.

 

After 45 days you have no rights whatsoever and basically they can walk away from you with no obligations whatsoever. Its the only right you have as a contractor.

 

It may be more productive to go talk to the guy that hires the guy that is trying to stiff you(his employer), such as the builder or general contractor etc to try and get things straightened out that way before you place lien.

 

Sometimes contractors are required to provide a statutory declaration that states that all suppliers and subcontractors have been paid. I dont know if the guy you are working for has to do this, in smaller residential work sometimes this does not apply. 10% Hold backs are another protection also.

 

Be nice if people could just pay their bill, and we would all be happy.

 

Good link posted above for sure.

 

Good luck

 

Bryan

Edited September 27, 2011 by F7Firecat

[lookinforwalleye]

Verbal agreements in some cases are just as solid as a written one, have your lawyer shoot him a registered letter he will know how to word it!!!

 

or buy a box of matches!

[danc]

One of our local contractors that has a reputation for beating down his subs when it's time to be paid, met a few of the guys in a back alley. Let's just say that I think that he learned a well derserved lesson.

[tb4me]

it all comes down to how much he owes you and how much you want to spend to get it..Small claims court is out if you don't have any legal contract..Verbal agreement means nothing in the grand scheme of things. it simply comes down to his word against yours. Judges wont touch it and lawyers love it. They get richer by the minute with this stuff. I don't suggest any illegal activities, as that will only end up with you in trouble. If you are a sub trade do like other have said, go to his employer. Be careful not to slander, as a deformation of charter case can get expensive. Good luck but I honestly think you are this time. Move on and get some cash rolling in. That's my advise take from that what you will.

[splashhopper]

u have 45 days to put a lien on the property.... DO IT.... do NOT even think twice about it.

 

This DIRTBAG WILL NOT PAY YOU if he hasn't already...

 

U may not get paid immediately, but you affect hsi ability to get a larger mortgage on the property as the property progresses.\ !

 

That will get his attention IMMEDIATELY.

 

I have liened one property on a GC and threatened to on another. I got paid pretty damned quick.

 

A decent para legal can do this for you for half the cost of a lawyer.

 

 

gOOD LUCK AND don't back down.

 

http://www.TheGroutMedic.ca

Edited September 27, 2011 by splashhopper

[muskymike]

Splash and Bryan are right. Liens are possible.

The issue is you are leaning the Owner of the property and not the guy that owes you the money. 99% of the time the hired trade is paid by the owner, yet the subs do not get paid.

 

Framers are very very susceptible to this unfortunately. I know of at least 30 crews that have got screwed by the owner of the framing company after he was paid by the owner of the property.

 

I work for one of the "property owners", luckily our trades get paid 99% of the time.

 

This happens all the time in the GTA and Ottawa.

 

Good luck, if its not a big amount that he owes you, cut your losses and spread the word. If its a lot, look at the lien route (as long as you are not in Ottawa and liening our company hahaha)

[Skipper D]

Sorry for your bad luck with this guy Tony , i'll not add any thing here for know as the guys already gave you some good advice , but is this guys name Tony D by any chance , please let me know , maybe you would do us all a favore if you posted his name on here ................

Edited September 27, 2011 by Skipper " D "

[Skipper D]

Sorry for your bad luck with this guy Tony , i'll not add any thing here for know as the guys already gave you some good advice , but is this guys name Tony D by any chance , please let me know , maybe you would do us all a favore if you posted his name on here ................

 

 

We've done lens before but what makes the money come fast is to also len their bank accounts , not that easy to do but is do'able

[Twocoda]

it will cost you 545.00 to get the lien in place....if its a significant amount of money then you have to set it forward through the process....but if it isnt then simply take the hit and write it off as a loss on your taxes...you can spread it out over three years if you have to ...Good Luck

[Harrison]

As a past Contractor, it can be beyond tough to finance a job until full payment is received sometimes. But there is no excuse not to pay your trades. Your only as good as your trades/guys.

 

I give you credit for sticking around for 2 months, move on my friend. And spread the word.

 

Just throwing this out, there is no excuse for what they have done, however he is a "new" contractor. IS there a chance he will make good when he gets full payment????

Edited September 27, 2011 by Harrison

[Headhunter]

Spending a day tearing down the last few houses you framed, might inspire him to pay you... or alternatively, getting your truck stuck in the drive, you know, the one all the material suppliers use to provide for the area...

I know, but I am just trying to be creative!

HH

[Terry]

Spending a day tearing down the last few houses you framed, might inspire him to pay you... or alternatively, getting your truck stuck in the drive, you know, the one all the material suppliers use to provide for the area...

I know, but I am just trying to be creative!

HH

 

I like your way of thinking

 

 

but in most cases building material become the property of the home owner once it is on the property and if you remove it you are charged with theft...ask me how I know...

 

 

but when they don't pay for 800 feet of wood fence and they have the nerve to call you for warranty work, you get them to sign the you are on the property to do warranty work..

 

then I waited till they went to work and chainsawed all the fence posts and took all the wood home to do the warranty work

 

when they called I told them I could not do anymore work till the bill was paid.......they never did pay and I used the fence on another job...and the crown decided I did not steal the fence but rather took it to do warranty work with permission....charges dropped

[Headhunter]

I like the way you think Terry!

Warranty work! LMAO!

HH

[GBW]

two words "careless smoking"

[motion]

I say call up Vito and the "boys" to pay him a visit. I'm sure they can make him an offer he can't refuse

 

Seriously, it's a shame that contractors have to behave like that way. How does he sleep at night! I would hope he comes to his senses but, to help, a letter from a lawyer may help.

 

Good luck Tony.

 

Cheers.

Edited September 27, 2011 by motion

[moxie]

Sorry to hear about it. A lot of sensible ideas have been given including the heavy ones. Liens cost you more money you might never see again, careless smoking, dismantling and warranty work reverse the perp-victim dynamic. A one on one meeting alone with no other parties present will produce an outcome whether you get paid or not. Every dog needs to be corrected from time to time i guess. Just my .02. Good luck.

 

 

 

 

Moxie.

[tapout]

Well everyone, some new developments on my issue. Doesn't look like I'm ever going to see my money but due to some new information I got today its almost worth it. This contractor also has another contracting business doing insulation ( which I already knew) . One of his clients is a very well known and connected builder and has several high end clients. He apparently lost his business doings with this builder as well. Another builder who he walked away from has me and my crew back finishing his house. Well that builder finally came across him today and blasted him verbally. My former contractor of course had excuses and blame to put everywhere but himself. He spins so much verbal diarrhea the TP factories are gonna need to put on an extra shift to compensate. Anyway he has himself dug so deeply hes done in the area I work. Its a very high end area where everyone pretty much knows each other. He was told by the builder I work for he might as well find a different area to work. Karma can really be a .....ummm....female dog???.... thanks for all the comments, suggestions, and support!!!

 

Tony.