Bad government

[Guest Johnny Bass]

not standing up for the 407 lets be clear! bunch of crooks however....

 

the 407 pays huge fees to the opp to patrol the highway, taxpayers make money on it.

more huge fees paid to the mot for collection/extortion, taxpayers dont pay for it.

 

Prove it.

 

my experience with the change of address - just because you changed your plate with the mot doesn't mean you have changed your plate with the 407, they are seperate entities. the 407 said that i had to change my address with them as they only check the plate once and after that it is your problem to update your account info. kind of reasonable but the obvious question to ask them is why do they charge the "plate fee" each time you use the highway. if they are not checking the plate against the mot records, why are you charged for this service?

 

so making this argument that they had charged me to 'run' the plate - which would have provided my new address - but had not actually done it, all interest charges and fees were dropped, just had to pay the bill for use.

 

again - not standing up for the asshats at the 407. good luck to you in your battle with a faceless soulless corporation that has us by the short hairs for about 90 more years.

 

ps might want to see how much of the highway belongs to the teachers pension fund....

 

 

Thats ridiculous, considering she was never made aware that she had a charge in the first place. MOT should have updated the information when she updated her license. Furthurmore by law when they issued the "final complaint and plate denial" By law they have to contact the ministry and make sure they have the right address. This was done in 2008. Considering the license was updated in 1998 and the plate was retired in 2000, they should have looked into it, but hey, they dont have to because they have us by the short hairs for sure!

[Guest Johnny Bass]

The dumb thing is that MOT did not update her plates either until recently. Maybe because the plate was retired or whatever.But the MOT automatically updates the plates when you change your license information.

 

Why should she pay for MOT and 407 incompitence? it doesn't surprise me since when we asked how much the fine was, we received 3 different figures. One from the court house, one from the drivers license place and one from the 407.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Johnny Bass

[Guest Johnny Bass]

some further 407 info from the bill of sale. notice the part about rate increases and clawbacks for slowmoving traffic (cause its great to pay for stopped highways).

 

Safety The province will ensure the continued safety in the

operation, construction and maintenance of Highway 407.

The Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) will continue to

provide traffic patrol and traffic law enforcement on

Highway 407, and the Ministry of Transportation (MTO)

will enforce compliance with provincial safety

standards, as it does on all other provincial highways.

The new owner will pay for OPP and MTO enforcement

services on a cost-recovery basis.

 

Tolls The agreement includes an innovative toll-rate

mechanism aimed at relieving traffic congestion on

existing major routes. The province will have the

ability to claw back toll revenues if pre-set traffic

levels on Highway 407 are not met. Tolls can be

adjusted by two per cent per year plus inflation for

the first 15 years, and thereafter, by inflation only.

This would mean that tolls could increase by about

three cents per kilometre over the first 15 years.

 

Financial penalties will be imposed on the consortium

if both the tolls are increased in excess of the

specified limits and specified traffic levels are not

met.

 

Cost recovery basis???? Traffic levels??? It says nothing about being able to charge 30% interest and then forcing people to pay at the cost of tax payers.

[cram]

I tried that number and managed to get $200 deducted. But that still is not enough in my opinion. These crooks are still stealing $450+ dollars in interest that should not have been added! This is legalized robbery.

 

Went as high as the 407 umbudsman and they basically said there is nothing they could do. In other words they are good for nothing.

 

Now I am contacting the ministry of transportation! Since it may also be their error for not updating the plates when the license was updated. Not only that but by law they(407)

are supposed to contact the person when the final bill and plate denial is sent. They used outdated information. Also considering the plate was retired in 2000, you'd think they would put 2 and 2 together.

 

There is also a maximum % interest that a company is legally allowed to charge. Suspect 30% exceeds it, otherwise you know the credit card companies would charge that much. You may want to check it out.

 

Only other idea -- the toronto sun loves this stuff. You may get on their front page if you make your story crisp enough. Its not your fault they have been billing the wrong address.

[rylan]

I have said it many times on this site--- why wont you listen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They will keep doing this until we STAND up and fight.

 

 

 

When is ENOUGH- enough.

 

And if we dont stop them now --- just think what could be next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

I dont want to find out and I am DONE sitting here here and listening to you all witch about this kind of crap -- but thats all you do- LETS GO people-- we need to stand up NOW before its to late.

[Big Cliff]

I have said it many times on this site--- why wont you listen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They will keep doing this until we STAND up and fight.

 

 

 

When is ENOUGH- enough.

 

And if we dont stop them now --- just think what could be next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

I dont want to find out and I am DONE sitting here here and listening to you all witch about this kind of crap -- but thats all you do- LETS GO people-- we need to stand up NOW before its to late.

 

 

But we are Canadian..... We won't!

[ctranter]

Im with Cliff, I've heard enough horror stories like this to never set wheels on the 407. I'd rather sit in terrible golden horseshoe any day than let those greedy buggers have my money.

[mercman]

But we are Canadian..... We won't!

 

nope, we wont, cause we rather moan about it, rile a bunch of people up, and then wait for someone else to do something bout it.

thats why everyone loves us so much

[knightfisher]

Fascism, google the word.

 

Part of the definition- when government and corporations work hand and glove.

Our government working for the new owners of the 407.

 

Did the bail out fall into this catagory ? You bet !

 

Also as I understand it, because the 407 deal was done with a private company, the particulars of the sale can be concealed.

Sure we the public were given a few details, but try to get a copy of the contract of sale, being that this affects us, the public.

 

Not going to happen.

 

The word sheeple comes to mind.

[grt1]

kinda makes me glad that I live in the north and far far away from the toll roads

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Yup. It seems like both parties have been selling Canada off to the highest bidders(especially the conservatives that are in bed with the US) and pocket money on the side. With the excuse they weren't making money. If the gov wasn't making money, how the heck can a private corporation? Makes no sense. Its all Bull. And then they complain about not having any money after they sell off their infrastructure and they start raising taxes. Shameful.

 

The worst is lies like the beer store and the LCBO not making money and having to privatize!

 

 

I think I will look into starting my own political movement.

[Jer]

 

 

The worst is lies like the beer store and the LCBO not making money and having to privatize!

 

 

 

 

The Beer Store has always been privately owned and the LCBO probably should be.

[scuro2]

 

 

I dont want to find out and I am DONE sitting here here and listening to you all witch about this kind of crap -- but thats all you do- LETS GO people-- we need to stand up NOW before its to late.

Yeah lets get that Canadian tea party going so that we can get US funding for our "grass roots" "advocacy" group also.

 

The ignorant are played like fiddles.

 

If the beef is the 407, than remember it was Mike Harris and his "common sense" revolution that sold that government highway off to private interests. The people who tell you to vote for them because they will get rid of the shackles of government and cut red tape are the same people who agreed to the sale and the conditions of the sale. I don't know enough about the sale but I'd bet my last dollar that one of the conditions of sale was that our Ontario government would be the collection agency for those private interests.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

The Beer Store has always been privately owned and the LCBO probably should be.

 

Really And why may I ask should the government sell off a big cash cow like the LCBO?

 

 

And from what I understand? The beer store was bought out not too long ago. They changed the logos and everything.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Johnny Bass

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Yeah lets get that Canadian tea party going so that we can get US funding for our "grass roots" "advocacy" group also.

 

The ignorant are played like fiddles.

 

If the beef is the 407, than remember it was Mike Harris and his "common sense" revolution that sold that government highway off to private interests. The people who tell you to vote for them because they will get rid of the shackles of government and cut red tape are the same people who agreed to the sale and the conditions of the sale. I don't know enough about the sale but I'd bet my last dollar that one of the conditions of sale was that our Ontario government would be the collection agency for those private interests.

 

Yup. The elites are behind the tea movement in America also. How do you think they are receiving all that free air time. A true grass root movement would have been left out in the cold.

 

Apparently the gov told the 407 in 2000 that they no longer were going to collect for the 407 but in 2005 the Gov started to again. All I know is that the tax payer is getting the short end of the stick! From what could have been potential income for the province is now a drain.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Johnny Bass

[scuro2]

http://www.todaystrucking.com/news.cfm?intDocID=14037&CFID=1265779&CFTOKEN=99321162

...the Ontario Divisional Court has issued a unanimous decision ordering the Ontario Registrar of Motor Vehicles to comply with the "statutory obligation" to deny vehicle permits to individuals who refuse to pay their 407 ETR tolls. In their ruling, the Honourable Mr. Justice James D. Carnwath, Madam Justice Joan L. Lax and Madam Justice Katherine E. Swinton ruled that "the Registrar had no discretion to refuse plate denial" and therefore ordered the Registrar to begin denying plates, the highway operators said....407 ETR says that plate denial was in place while the highway was owned and operated by the previous Ontario government and the practice was a key part of the 1998 legislation allowing the sale of the highway to the company.

 

To sell the highway they had to introduce a bill since the highway belonged to the people( you and me). It was at this point that changes could have been made but instead Mike Harris gave the farm away. When you curse about the 407 make sure you invoke his name.

Edited August 22, 2010 by scuro2

[Billy Bob]

I took that 40expensivehighway once and NEVER again...come on, are they NUTS....40 miles each way cost me over Thirty US dollar$ (back when our dollar was at about 30% premium.

 

I always thought our NYS Thruway was a rip off but not anymore when compared to 407...I can go 100 miles on the NYS Thruway and it only cost $5

 

BTW whoever heard of a government selling a highway to a private firm (I heard it's French) so they can in turn charge the hell out of the citizens without any representation.......makes NO SENSE to me anyway you fillet it.

 

And it's just a matter of time until the crapper tax takes affect.

[Jer]

Really And why may I ask should the government sell off a big cash cow like the LCBO?

 

 

And from what I understand? The beer store was bought out not too long ago. They changed the logos and everything.

 

 

 

It's not what I consider the role of government, to make money on a retail enterprise.

 

The Beer Store was originally opened as Brewers Retail and was a joint venture between Molson, Labatt's and Carling-Okeefe, albeit under strict government regulation. With all the recent buy-outs and merging of our brewing industry, I coudn't say who has ownership anymore, but I'm positive it isn't the provincial government.

 

The 407 I agree was a farce. Public infrastructure should never be in the hands of private corporations. Public control of these types of things is what I do consider the role of government.

[aplumma]

Yup. It seems like both parties have been selling Canada off to the highest bidders(especially the conservatives that are in bed with the US) and pocket money on the side. With the excuse they weren't making money. If the gov wasn't making money, how the heck can a private corporation? Makes no sense. Its all Bull. And then they complain about not having any money after they sell off their infrastructure and they start raising taxes. Shameful.

 

The worst is lies like the beer store and the LCBO not making money and having to privatize!

 

 

I think I will look into starting my own political movement.

 

If you need any help with funding give me a call we can do lunch.

 

 

Art

[Guest Johnny Bass]

It's not what I consider the role of government, to make money on a retail enterprise.

 

The Beer Store was originally opened as Brewers Retail and was a joint venture between Molson, Labatt's and Carling-Okeefe, albeit under strict government regulation. With all the recent buy-outs and merging of our brewing industry, I coudn't say who has ownership anymore, but I'm positive it isn't the provincial government.

 

The 407 I agree was a farce. Public infrastructure should never be in the hands of private corporations. Public control of these types of things is what I do consider the role of government.

 

What I consider to be the role of the government is to maintain peace and order and the well being of ALL its citizens. And for that you need money. The more enterprises the gov controls, the more money they have at their disposal, to supply social services to its citizens.

 

All the privatization of government infrastructure has weakened the position of government and strengthened corporations whose main interests are of their own and not of the people.

 

The LCBO brings in all kinds of revenue which is put into all kinds of social services that benefit the public. Put that money into private hands and that money will only benefit the very few that profit from it.

 

The more infrastructure the gov owns, the more equality and less poverty there will be. Heck I even think the GOV should own the leafs and bring in an NFL franchise!

[fishinguypat]

Only in Canada...

[cram]

What I consider to be the role of the government is to maintain peace and order and the well being of ALL its citizens. And for that you need money. The more enterprises the gov controls, the more money they have at their disposal, to supply social services to its citizens.

 

All the privatization of government infrastructure has weakened the position of government and strengthened corporations whose main interests are of their own and not of the people.

 

The LCBO brings in all kinds of revenue which is put into all kinds of social services that benefit the public. Put that money into private hands and that money will only benefit the very few that profit from it.

 

The more infrastructure the gov owns, the more equality and less poverty there will be. Heck I even think the GOV should own the leafs and bring in an NFL franchise!

 

The gov't is - in general - really crap at delivering a service with any efficiency that would rival private sector.....but i agree that the 407 deal is a farce. Problem is the deal was cut a LONG time ago. No point arguing it now. If it wasn't overturned a few yrs ago when it was proven they were overbilling tons of ontario citizens (or billing people who hadn't been on the 407), it certainly isn't going to be overturned because your friend didn't pay her actually incurred bills (whether she knew about them or not).

[Jer]

What I consider to be the role of the government is to maintain peace and order and the well being of ALL its citizens. And for that you need money. The more enterprises the gov controls, the more money they have at their disposal, to supply social services to its citizens.

 

All the privatization of government infrastructure has weakened the position of government and strengthened corporations whose main interests are of their own and not of the people.

 

The LCBO brings in all kinds of revenue which is put into all kinds of social services that benefit the public. Put that money into private hands and that money will only benefit the very few that profit from it.

 

The more infrastructure the gov owns, the more equality and less poverty there will be. Heck I even think the GOV should own the leafs and bring in an NFL franchise!

 

 

OK comrade, how did that all work out in the former Soviet Union?

[Billy Bob]

OK comrade, how did that all work out in the former Soviet Union?

 

EXACTLY what I was thinking....

 

You want WASTE and INEFFICIENCY then just add more and more government.

 

Take my area for example...pretty soon we will only have government jobs here. Then what ? ? ?

[Guest Johnny Bass]

The gov't is - in general - really crap at delivering a service with any efficiency that would rival private sector.....but i agree that the 407 deal is a farce. Problem is the deal was cut a LONG time ago. No point arguing it now. If it wasn't overturned a few yrs ago when it was proven they were overbilling tons of ontario citizens (or billing people who hadn't been on the 407), it certainly isn't going to be overturned because your friend didn't pay her actually incurred bills (whether she knew about them or not).

 

If that were the case then we should privatize our health care again, dont you think? And anyone with half a brain knows universal healthcare is a more better system for the majority of the citizen's. Private health care benefits mostly the rich.

 

You'd think that a government as rich as Canada's would be more efficient than any private sector, unless it is competing against another country with deeper pockets.