ttreacy Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 Hire a guid and go catvch some...it will cost a bit more but will be lots more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solopaddler Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 It's good meaning people like Jim C who are enabling the demise of the walleye fishery in lake Nipissing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted August 28, 2010 Report Share Posted August 28, 2010 It's good meaning people like Jim C who are enabling the demise of the walleye fishery in lake Nipissing. Agree fully here Solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted August 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 It's good meaning people like Jim C who are enabling the demise of the walleye fishery in lake Nipissing. whoa there, solo ... pretty sure I kinda resent your comment, on so many levels ... (and this, despite the really, really complimentary comment I made on your recent 'Eddie Norths Attiwapiskat adventure' thread) First let me say that we just returned from a fantastic family vacation on Lake Nip, (Camp La Plage, as was asked above), maybe THE most fun week (after 30+) that we've had. Having our first (and only) grandchild along to experience his first 'cottaging adventure' made it very special. About the fishing ... as it turned out, there were lots of nice Pike brought in, and a few nice Walleye (including a 28 incher), and the Perch even turned on for awhile; a HUGE Camp-wide potluck pigout made it unnecessary to drive into North Bay to purchase pickerel. A lady from Camp is an absolute surgeon when it comes to the 5-cut boneless Pike fileting method; so everyone, including the kids had their fill, worry free about ingesting a fish bone. Every single family in Camp, contributed to our massive feast. solo ... specific to your comment and what it infers ... t least you referred to me as 'good meaning' but in the context you are using, I find it rather condescending ... you know, like I mean well, but my actions (if I chose to buy a few filets of NFN harvested Walleye) would enable the demise of the fishery. Do you really believe that? Lets talk facts ... NFN are entitled by treaty to net fish. They have been doing it for hundreds of years and it's going to continue. Ultimately, enforcing critical areas such as 'quotas' and 'a moratorium on netting during spawning season' falls on the Chief and her council. I did some research of found this >>> http://www.nfn.ca/land_fish.php <<< Be sure to check out the four video links posted, in addition to the text, and make your own conclusions. Based on Nipfisher's comment on pg1 of this thread ... 30 Walleye outing by a friend ... I'm not sure the Walleye fishery is close to demise? But if you believe it is, and want to talk about 'enabling' that eventuality, then you might want to give appropriate Ontario Government Agency heads a call and voice your concerns. There was recently a picture in the Nugget of Nipissing Ontario Liberal MPP Monique Smith, cutting the ribbon at the new NFN fish cleaning facility. Other funding groups are mentioned via the link above, on the NFN website. Part of the recent agreements and funding was to enable (there's that word again), NFN selling directly to local (and not so local) restaurants. Pretty sure that Churchills and Inn-On-The-Bay are dishing out way way more Walleye in a day, than my family would consume in a year. And what about the thousands upon thousands of those Big, black rat Cormorants still alive and well all over the Lake ... I'm sure more than me has noticed the dramatic decrease in perch and bluegill stocks, since their arrival in huge numbers several years ago. In the shallower areas of the Lake, Fish vs Cormorant is No Contest. Does this relatively new problem affect the larger fish? Pretty sure it does. Call the MNR and demand a controlled cull, and all you get is a lot of nothin. Is this Ont Government Ministry not then enabling the demise of the Walleye (by lack of specific action)? Makes ya go hmmmmmmm ... doesn't it. I'm betting most everyone reading this has personal knowledge of non-natives who routinely make multiple daily outings in the spring, stuff their freezers full of Walleye filets, where (4) is the per license limit, and maybe ignore the 'slot', and think nothing of it. Gee, I wonder if its only a couple, or maybe a whole lot, who do this, and maybe they are enabling the eventual demise of the fishery, as you say. So its complicated, but I believe the NFN have a vested interest in keeping the overall fishery healthy and sustainable. If they don't control their part, then they and we will all lose. I don't blame them for wanting to make a decent living for their family, by getting market price for their catch, preferably in an above board open retail outlet(s), and not out of the back of a pickup truck. On the other hand, if quotas are not respected, and the Chief and council can't control it, then they, and the Ont. Government who enabled the present situation have only themselves to blame. hey, I said goin in that this thread would be controversial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solopaddler Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 solo ... specific to your comment and what it infers ... t least you referred to me as 'good meaning' but in the context you are using, I find it rather condescending ... you know, like I mean well, but my actions (if I chose to buy a few filets of NFN harvested Walleye) would enable the demise of the fishery. Do you really believe that? Do I really believe that? Absolutely unequivocally 100% yes. So its complicated, but I believe the NFN have a vested interest in keeping the overall fishery healthy and sustainable. If they don't control their part, then they and we will all lose. It's not complicated at all as far as I'm concerned. They're not controlling their part Jim. It's happening right before our eyes and yes we're all losing, both natives and non natives alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadadude Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 Well said JimC the NFN seem to be the only organised group actually studying and coming up with a plan to protect and improve the Nippissing Walleye populations.Instead of all the mud slinging coming from Tourist operators and sport fishers, they should maybe get on board and help.Everyone has a vested interest in the fishery,maybe it's time everyone got together and developed a decent plan to sustain the populations. IMO the natives are the only ones doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nipfisher Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Jim, I'm glad you and your family enjoyed Nipissing and the fish cooperated. I will just say that I enjoyed a combination of caught and bought Nipissing walleye last night. I couldn't taste the difference I love fishing on Nipissing and when I go out and get skunked it would be easy to blame the natives but I blame the fish. Maybe if we would pay $14 per pound for the Cormorants we wouldn't have any problems. I can see this thread getting locked now as it really has no where positive to go. Thanks for the thread Jim, I hope you're returning next year. Blair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 When someone like me (from outside the area) reads about commercial fishing on the Nip, we think twice before making any plans to fish the area. What once was a great fishery that I experienced several times out of Sturgeon Falls back in the 70's now only seems like a memory by many of the readings here. That's only my honest opinion but it's also my money I'm spending when looking for a fishing vacation. So with that said I will never again bother to fish the Big Nip in future Ontario fishing trips. Commercial fishing is never a good thing for any area, even the ocean is hurting with many species being over fished, like the Blue Tuna. Lake Erie is raped by commercial nets and the Big Nip is a much more delicate water column to be gill netted. What's the difference what color the people are who set the nets as they do their destruction without hesitation. I'm very sorry to say that different rules for different people will ALWAYS divide us against each other. That's the real problem with this world and by the time (if ever) we recognize that it will be too late for the Big Nip and other bodies of water. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 14 bucks a pound for walleye? LOL give me two steaks! Heck that is 6 cans of spam! Buying fish? uncivilized! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 As one who has been on the lake all my life I can say that at the present pace of fishing, be it netting or fishermen, the fish population in the lake is just a mere fraction of it's former self. It cannot sustain the pressure. Yes, there are those that are catching fish but try it without a depth sounder or a GPS. Personally I would never buy a pickerel. To each their own I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadadude Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 The problems on the lake go far beyond native netting, which has gone on for 100's of years, the whole lake is under great pressure.There are way to many tourist operators tapping the resource, the winter fishery exploded in the last decade with 1000's of huts, bungalos you name it.Everyone seems to want a piece of the dwindling fishery so to blame one single type of use is vastly unfair.To sustain the fishery everyone with a vested interest needs to come together and work towards a common goal.I commend the Natives for at least hiring a biologist and attempting to manage the fishery.Like I said before they seem to be the only vested group doing anything to study and improve the fishery.Now if the tourist operators and sportfishermen climbed on board instead of waiting for the government to do something perhaps the fishery would improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted August 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Jim, I'm glad you and your family enjoyed Nipissing and the fish cooperated. I will just say that I enjoyed a combination of caught and bought Nipissing walleye last night. I couldn't taste the difference I love fishing on Nipissing and when I go out and get skunked it would be easy to blame the natives but I blame the fish. Maybe if we would pay $14 per pound for the Cormorants we wouldn't have any problems. I can see this thread getting locked now as it really has no where positive to go. Thanks for the thread Jim, I hope you're returning next year. Blair Nip ... the line I bolded is just plain 'classic' ... great attitude there my friend. As for admins 'locking this thread' ... if the posts become malicious, then absolutely; however, so far pretty much everything I'm reading has been quite civil. Some really interesting perspectives are still being posted, imho. I think it (thread) will shortly just die a natural death as it should. ... and YES, absolutely we are coming back in 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 * 1957 - 16,610,000 * 1958 - 17,080,000 * 1959 - 17,483,000 1960s * 1960 - 17,870,000 * 1961 - 18,239,000 * 1962 - 18,583,000 * 1963 - 18,931,000 * 1964 - 19,291,000 * 1965 - 19,644,000 * 1966 - 19,967,000 * 1967 - 20,500,000 * 1968 - 20,701,000 * 1969 - 21,001,000 1970s * 1970 - 21,297,000 * 1971 - 21,963,000 * 1972 - 22,219,000 * 1973 - 22,494,000 * 1974 - 22,809,000 * 1975 - 23,143,000 * 1976 - 23,449,000 * 1977 - 23,727,000 * 1978 - 23,964,000 * 1979 - 24,203,000 1980s * 1980 - 24,517,000 * 1981 - 24,821,000 * 1982 - 25,118,000 * 1983 - 25,367,000 * 1984 - 25,608,000 * 1985 - 25,843,000 * 1986 - 26,101,000 * 1987 - 26,449,000 * 1988 - 26,798,000 * 1989 - 27,056,000 1990s * 1990 - 27,512,000 * 1991 - 27,945,000 * 1992 - 28,377,000 * 1993 - 28,682,000 * 1994 - 28,997,000 * 1995 - 29,303,000 * 1996 - 29,611,000 * 1997 - 29,965,000 * 1998 - 30,158,000 * 1999 - 30,404,000 2000s * 2000 - 30,689,000 * 2001 - 31,021,000 * 2002 - 31,373,000 * 2003 - 31,676,000 * 2004 - 32,048,000 * 2005 - 32,359,000 * 2006 - 32,723,000 * 2007 - 33,115,000 * 2008 - 33,506,000 * 2009 - 33,894,000 2010s * 2010 - 34,160,000 - (July Just observations, the population has doubled since my first trip north, and a lot of it is centered in the accessible areas. When we first went to Beaver Lake in 1957 it was an adventure, the highway system was spotty at best. Same with Pointe Au Baril in 1964, they were working on the highway, roads off of it in some cases weren`t much more than rock and sand. Nip was an adventure, the modern highway system has made it easy to get to, same with most of southern Ontario. Sure netting has had it`s adverse affects, but so has the growth of cottage country. You mix in people in areas that had little fishing pressure, today`s technology, and it isn`t hard to figure why fish populations go down. Every camp I ever stayed at had a weekly fish fry for the guests, x all season? x every camp in the area? mix in shore lunches? then mix in the lake shore cottage owners and residents that eat fish every time they go there? Is it a wonder the best fishing for certain species now involves a fly in trip? Limited access and facilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nipfisher Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Ohio, What site did you get the population stats from? Good post. Yes it is very true the harder to access lakes hold more fish due to less fihing pressure. Now-a-days with sleds in the winter and quads the rest of the year even some of the harder to access lakes up here are getting hammered. It is understandable why members wont post the locations / directions the their "honey holes" on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Nipfisher, try here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_Canada_by_year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Ok... now many here will probably know that I have an opinion and a very strong one at that about this topic. However, with that being said, I'm trying to be open minded here. Can someone here please tell me how opening up the Nip Pickereye market to many more sales opportuinties is beneficial to the fishery? Can anyone tell me how putting a biologist on their payroll is going to be beneficial to all parties interest? Can anyone tell me how the local band is dealing with folks who are not participating in this operation and are simply loading up trucks to sell "under the table" What authority, if any do the band leaders have over folks who are not using the newly opened processing facility? What good is a biologist if they are only getting some of the info they need? To the OP... glad your trip turned out good, glad yah got a feed of fish. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Nip, Roy nailed it. Bass fishing is better here than in the 50`s - 80`s for one reason alone, catch and release. You don`t give out spots here, every one can see when you catch fish! 150 bass boats on a lake 1500-3000 acres, plus the week end anglers doesn`t leave much room to hide. Most of the guys here that know what they are doing know if you fished one area of a lake? they can find your spot. Lake Erie? just massive, but there are certain areas that produce smallies and walleye more often than not. On this side the state buying out the commercial walleye fishermen and an improvement in water quality turned the fishery around. A longer growing season, and more bait fish than you can shake a stick at helps. Just my view that here some changes to the regs could help? I don`t see a need for people to keep a limit of 8-10 pound walleye in the fall, or a limit of 20+ inch smallies for a mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadadude Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Ok... now many here will probably know that I have an opinion and a very strong one at that about this topic. However, with that being said, I'm trying to be open minded here. Can someone here please tell me how opening up the Nip Pickereye market to many more sales opportuinties is beneficial to the fishery? Can anyone tell me how putting a biologist on their payroll is going to be beneficial to all parties interest? Can anyone tell me how the local band is dealing with folks who are not participating in this operation and are simply loading up trucks to sell "under the table" What authority, if any do the band leaders have over folks who are not using the newly opened processing facility? What good is a biologist if they are only getting some of the info they need? To the OP... glad your trip turned out good, glad yah got a feed of fish. HH By opening up the fishery to commercial sales the native fishery is now regulated and has brought employment and much needed monies to band. Now that the NFN treat there fishery as a business it has brought regulations and quotas.With a business comes $$$$$$ and the band has a vested interest in not poaching and ruining the fishery, if other band members are poaching,selling fish under the table I'm sure the band in some way will deal with it.The poaching not only hurts the fishery but also the profits the band makes legally and if it hurts there business they will deal with it. By putting a Biologist on the payroll they are in fact studying there resource and making smart decsions in order to keep a sustainable harvest.I don't see tourist operators looking into allowable harvest, the number of ice fisherman on the lake, tha amount of fish harvested by there clients all I here from them is alot of mudslinging and blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 (edited) Ok... thanks for writing that up Canadadude... but... -a biologist on Their (proper way to refer to others) payroll, make not be the most objective perspective available - an independent firm would be much better suited -the band will have to ask people who's livelyhood has been dependant on selling fish from the back of their truck to stop. What if any, are the ramifications of them telling the band to go pound salt, I got a family to feed. -I recall reading about some tourist operators getting involved with the stocking program in an effort to help with sustainability - I believe I read it here. -the tourist operators help to enforce the slot limit and every one I have been to has taken me aside to ensure that I have all the knowledge I need to make the right decision. They don't want me to get fined for having slot fish... - the regs only discuss the catching, cleaning and storage of fish and do not address the number of fish being caught and kept. -comparing Lake Erie to Nip is like comparing North Bay's traffic snarls to that of Toronto... there is simply no comparisson. So far, unfortunately I am only hearing about how this will positively affect the band members, I am not able to quantify how this will help non band members who have a vested interest in the fishery. Edited August 30, 2010 by Headhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 By opening up the fishery to commercial sales the native fishery is now regulated and has brought employment and much needed monies to band. Now that the NFN treat there fishery as a business it has brought regulations and quotas.With a business comes $$$ and the band has a vested interest in not poaching and ruining the fishery, if other band members are poaching,selling fish under the table I'm sure the band in some way will deal with it.The poaching not only hurts the fishery but also the profits the band makes legally and if it hurts there business they will deal with it. By putting a Biologist on the payroll they are in fact studying there resource and making smart decsions in order to keep a sustainable harvest.I don't see tourist operators looking into allowable harvest, the number of ice fisherman on the lake, tha amount of fish harvested by there clients all I here from them is alot of mudslinging and blame. I don't buy that argument the bands will take what they want when they want.........and they have the right I will not argue that.....but not to sell..... not in Nip. but another lake the gov. bought some of the commercial licenses off some natives to help save the fish the next week the owners brother use the boat to fish .......I am afraid the more we allow them to sell the more they will sell..the less for us and we keep stocking fish so they can be sell back to us........ I see nothing good coming from that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosshairs Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 The vested interest the First Nation (we) have is that if the walleye population plummets so do the treaty rights of us as well as our future generations. If the stocks of fish are proven to be in danger, there is case law where communities have lost their right. As for what powers cheif and council have over band members, the treaty was not signed by all us band members, it was signed on behalf of a community which makes these rights cummunal rights. The community wanted action done, they voted and now there are laws and regulations in place. All must keep in mind this is a work in progress, every year the regulations have been updated to close loop holes found, and to deal with new issues that arise. A biologist being hired, regulations, enforcement, assessment work being completed is all benefits to the lake. Quota was reduced this year due to our FWIN results, if quota is reduced again price will go up again. Less fish doesn't mean less $$$ for the fisherman. All this work is being done because the community wanted it, no outside influence had a say in any of this work being completed by the first nation. Assessment work being done is not just on walleye (like the ontario government was doing) but on Pike, Bass, Musky, Whitefish to get a better picture of what the whole ecosystem is doing. I see no reason to shut this thread, this is how information is shared and how people learn. There is nothing wrong with questions. In the end we all want the same thing, a healthy productive lake to enjoy for many generations. Take care all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadadude Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 The idea of hiring a Bias or unobjective Biologist serves absolutly no purpose,they could just fish without it,the fact they have somebody sampling and studying the health of the lake shows that they are commited to a sustainable fishery. The imformation the biologist gathers helps everyone on the lake, it studies the quality of the lake fishery and does not distinguish between native or non-native its all about the fishery. I am not a band member and I have no idea how they deal with poaching.It is illegal however for anyone including band members to sell fish from the back of there truck,it always has been and I'm not sure of the law concerning restaraunts selling poached fish.If this is happening it's breaking of provincial laws and perhaps the provincial police should be the ones dealing with it.I really don't know if the band or the province or perhaps a combination of the 2 should be enforcing the laws. It's in the best interest of the tourist operators to educate there visitors of the regulations it's bad business if your clients get busted for not knowing the rules.As for enforcment of the regulations I'm not so sure many outfitters are on board with that. I did here some rumblings of stocking and such, but that was just talk and when push came to shove nobody got on board, somthing about stocking fish so the natives would catch them to sell pulled the plug. I mean the thing is the non-natives want the native commercial fishery to stop and the natives want the non-native comercial enterprises to stop.Both sides have reasonable arguments and good points, I think for the health of the fishery both sides should get together and work out compromises and instead of always playing a blame game get out and work on the fishery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadadude Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 The vested interest the First Nation (we) have is that if the walleye population plummets so do the treaty rights of us as well as our future generations. If the stocks of fish are proven to be in danger, there is case law where communities have lost their right. As for what powers cheif and council have over band members, the treaty was not signed by all us band members, it was signed on behalf of a community which makes these rights cummunal rights. The community wanted action done, they voted and now there are laws and regulations in place. All must keep in mind this is a work in progress, every year the regulations have been updated to close loop holes found, and to deal with new issues that arise. A biologist being hired, regulations, enforcement, assessment work being completed is all benefits to the lake. Quota was reduced this year due to our FWIN results, if quota is reduced again price will go up again. Less fish doesn't mean less $$$ for the fisherman. All this work is being done because the community wanted it, no outside influence had a say in any of this work being completed by the first nation. Assessment work being done is not just on walleye (like the ontario government was doing) but on Pike, Bass, Musky, Whitefish to get a better picture of what the whole ecosystem is doing. I see no reason to shut this thread, this is how information is shared and how people learn. There is nothing wrong with questions. In the end we all want the same thing, a healthy productive lake to enjoy for many generations. Take care all. Thankyou well said and I learned alot more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Crosshairs has made some VERY good points.....it's a start but there is one thing that bothers me. The "slot limit"...if I catch a fish in the slot I have to release said fish only for that same fish to be caught in the gill nets and be harvested for SALE. What's the difference if I purchase that slot fish or keep it and eat it. Either way it's not reproducing in the lake. Just to make things a little bit fair in Nip......the slot limit should go or am I not seeing something here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solopaddler Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Just to make things a little bit fair in Nip......the slot limit should go or am I not seeing something here. Of course it's not fair. One group is allowed free rein, the other is forced to abide by laws and regulations. Don't expect anything to change until it's too late. Crosshair neglected to mention the other native anglers who are selling fish in roadside stands and out of the back of their trucks. How are they being regulated? Don't tell me that's not happening because I've seen it. Nipissing has been one of the top tourist destinations in ON and has been for generations. It's value both economic and intrinsic is priceless. It boggles my mind that government would allow such a decline. Yes overharvest by non natives has also played a role (especially in winter), but no one can tell me that the leading cause of the decline in the walleye fishery isn't native netting. This topic has been hashed and rehashed so many times it makes me nauseous even replying to this. It's been said before but until the natives in this country stop getting subsidized by our government and integrate fully with the rest of society they will continue to be this countries leading social problem. If any of you liberal minded people really believe that we can all work together (natives and non natives alike) to create a healthier, stronger fishery in Nippissing then you're deluded. You're living a dream world. In order for the lake to bounce back to historical levels drastic measures need to be taken. If it was up to me I'd ban all netting and put a 10 year moratorium on all winter fishing. Unfortunately that's never going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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