Rude fishermen infringe on cottage enjoyment

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Don't think this thread is about legal rights, but what's rude and not rude.

 

Whats rude is me fishing a shoreline COMPLETELY away from a cottagers dock but I guess his waterfront. And he is giving me dirty looks, on the phone like he is calling the cops, and then telling me I should find someone else's cottage to fish in front of. Maybe he didn't like the fact I was pulling pickerel off the spot, and that they were "his' pickerel.

 

Just to add? This shoreline was completely unswimable.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Johnny Bass

[BillM]

Whats rude is me fishing a shoreline COMPLETELY away from a cottagers dock but I guess his waterfront. And he is giving me dirty looks, on the phone like he is calling the cops, and then telling me I should find someone else's cottage to fish in front of. Maybe he didn't like the fact I was pulling pickerel off the spot, and that they were "his' pickerel.

 

Just to add? This shoreline was completely unswimable.

 

I'd just smile and wave................and keep on fishing.

[Radnine]

You hold them in high regard, and I see them as normal people. Just because they have more money, doesn't give them more rights than me.

 

If the dock wasn't there the fish would find NATURAL structure in the lake.

 

Actually if someone parked in front of your house before dark and blasted music. You couldn't say squat. Unless he was on your property.

 

The cottage owner has absolutely no upper hand in regards to access to our water ways.

 

Do you see how the car with the loud music is a metaphor for the fisherman off the dock? Have you heard about the barber that puts his prices up due to the HST, but never passes the taxes on to the government?

Maybe my original statement wasn't that far off after all. And maybe I need to quit looking for intellectual gratification on a fishing forum.

Radnine, over and out.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Do you see how the car with the loud music is a metaphor for the fisherman off the dock? Have you heard about the barber that puts his prices up due to the HST, but never passes the taxes on to the government?

Maybe my original statement wasn't that far off after all. And maybe I need to quit looking for intellectual gratification on a fishing forum.

Radnine, over and out.

 

Of course. And do you see how just because you own a house you don't own the block or the street??

 

Maybe your original statement was or maybe it wasn't but I promise. I won't lose any sleep over your opinion.lol

 

I know the problem is not me. Its cottagers who think they own the lake. You know how many times I fished a dock with people watching me and cheering as I'm pulling out fish right from their dock? Even the guests were impressed.

 

Spare me the condescending tone. I thought my initial post was quite intellectual. Sorry it didn't hold up to your holier than thou standards.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Johnny Bass

[Harrison]

And maybe I need to quit looking for intellectual gratification on a fishing forum.

 

Most of us get out whitted by something that has a brain the size of a pea. What ya expect?

Edited August 9, 2010 by Harrison

[markiemark70]

I am very interested in this discussion, and I thought I would share my opinion just before it gets locked.

 

I can see it from both sides: I love to fish docks and catch fish, but I would never go near a dock when the cottagers are there. And I remember the story that someone posted about the kid getting hooked on the dock (it was posted here once before, deja vu?) and that has taught me the importance of retrieving hooks should I ever get snagged on one.

 

I think the issue is between people who own property and those who don't. Sorry if it sounds condescending, but those who have not sacrificed to purchase a little slice of the world for themselves can't understand why people would take it personally to have someone disrespect that. I myself would have probably been on the other side of the argument until a few years ago when I purchased my first home. My attitude was, and the attitude I am hearing in this thread is "What, do you think your special because you bought some property?" And the answer for me is Yes. I feel like I have sacrificed and worked to get where I am and that should afford me a bit of respect around my property, within reason of course.

 

As for the difference between what's right vs what's legal, my favourite example is from a forgettable movie I saw a few years back: Two men are in a restaurant and man 1 decides to light up a cigar. Man 2 says "Excuse me, would you mind not smoking that here? I am trying to eat. Man 1 says "There is no law that says I can't smoke this here." Man2 replies: "I'm not talking about laws, I am talking about courtesy. You see, there is no law that says I can't walk over there and fart all over your entree, but that wouldn't be very nice would it?"

 

Bout sums it up.

 

In before the lock.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

I am very interested in this discussion, and I thought I would share my opinion just before it gets locked.

 

I can see it from both sides: I love to fish docks and catch fish, but I would never go near a dock when the cottagers are there. And I remember the story that someone posted about the kid getting hooked on the dock (it was posted here once before, deja vu?) and that has taught me the importance of retrieving hooks should I ever get snagged on one.

 

I think the issue is between people who own property and those who don't. Sorry if it sounds condescending, but those who have not sacrificed to purchase a little slice of the world for themselves can't understand why people would take it personally to have someone disrespect that. I myself would have probably been on the other side of the argument until a few years ago when I purchased my first home. My attitude was, and the attitude I am hearing in this thread is "What, do you think your special because you bought some property?" And the answer for me is Yes. I feel like I have sacrificed and worked to get where I am and that should afford me a bit of respect around my property, within reason of course.

 

As for the difference between what's right vs what's legal, my favourite example is from a forgettable movie I saw a few years back: Two men are in a restaurant and man 1 decides to light up a cigar. Man 2 says "Excuse me, would you mind not smoking that here? I am trying to eat. Man 1 says "There is no law that says I can't smoke this here." Man2 replies: "I'm not talking about laws, I am talking about courtesy. You see, there is no law that says I can't walk over there and fart all over your entree, but that wouldn't be very nice would it?"

 

Bout sums it up.

 

In before the lock.

 

Yup. First its the docks and once the cottages have surrounded the shores, its the shorelines, So we better start practicing drop shooting in deeper waters. Because the cottage owners are more special than us lowly fishermen.

 

Maybe little by little they will eventually own the entire lake and we can be like England where we have to pay stupid amounts of dollars to fish lakes. Yes, fishing should be a privilege only indulged by the wealthy.

 

In the meantime, I will continue to fish docks.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Johnny Bass

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Most of us get out whitted by something that has a brain the size of a pea. What ya expect?

 

And most of us with the brain the size of a pea, think they are smarter than everyone else.

 

It has to be all the scientists that are hanging around these fishing forums, having to lower their intellect to communicate with all us fishing Neanderthals.lol

[cram]

Johnny -- i think if you're on a lake where the shoreline is monopolized with cottages, then obviously you're going to fish in front of "someone's" place if you want to be near the shoreline.

 

On the other hand, if there's lots of shoreline aside from the cottages, why not just go there instead? I mean, is a bass under someone's dock *that* valuable to you? If there were no docks would you give up fishing?

 

I don't fish docks, and i catch a ton.....have a lot of fun doing it, and am not irritating anyone by doing it.

 

Here's an example for you -- one of the cottages on my lake has a little beachthat i know just has to hold musky early in the season when they're looking to warm up. Even though i know it has to hold fish, and i'm legally in the right to do it (its public water, not owned by the cottage owner) i just won't fish it. I know that with my 80 lb test there's no way i'm goign to lose a lure in there for a kid to get hooked on........but the fact i'm going to be irritating (or worrying) that cottage owner makes me ignore that spot and fish somewhere else.

 

Assuming you'd fish it?

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Johnny -- i think if you're on a lake where the shoreline is monopolized with cottages, then obviously you're going to fish in front of "someone's" place if you want to be near the shoreline.

 

On the other hand, if there's lots of shoreline aside from the cottages, why not just go there instead? I mean, is a bass under someone's dock *that* valuable to you? If there were no docks would you give up fishing?

 

I don't fish docks, and i catch a ton.....have a lot of fun doing it, and am not irritating anyone by doing it.

 

Here's an example for you -- one of the cottages on my lake has a little beachthat i know just has to hold musky early in the season when they're looking to warm up. Even though i know it has to hold fish, and i'm legally in the right to do it (its public water, not owned by the cottage owner) i just won't fish it. I know that with my 80 lb test there's no way i'm goign to lose a lure in there for a kid to get hooked on........but the fact i'm going to be irritating (or worrying) that cottage owner makes me ignore that spot and fish somewhere else.

 

Assuming you'd fish it?

 

I hardly fish docks and if you read my reports I am a highly versatile fisherman. I'm always learning new techniques.But I do fish docks from time to time.

 

Depends on what you mean by beach. Shallow and sandy(no chance of snaggin)? No one swimming? And there are big musky there? Sure. Most people would. Rocky? Not if I knew it was a designated swimming area. Maybe he should put some buoys and ropes around the swimming area.

 

How many people fish Balsam Lake provincial park's beach early in the morning(even though I do not)?

 

I know some fishermen that are so addicted to catching fish they don't care about ethics.. I've even been with guys that because they couldn't catch pike and walleye early season, decided to target bass. I refused to fish and never got invited again but that's fine with me.

 

Although radnine tried to label me as a rude fisherman? I am one of the most ethical fisherman around and am one of the most reasonable people around. But if someone is rude to me, I can be rude back like anyone else.

 

If the guy gets aggitated by people fishing water in front of his property that just happens to be a prime fishing habitat, he should sell and buy another cottage. There is this one lake I go on. This guy has a dock and a floating dock in the lake. This floating dock holds ALOT of big fish. He was constantly telling people to stop fishing the dock. He finally got fed up and sold the cottage. This spot is probably the best known spot on the lake and well fished by the locals. Does he have more rights then the other locals?

[cram]

I hardly fish docks and if you read my reports I am a highly versatile fisherman. I'm always learning new techniques.But I do fish docks from time to time.

 

Depends on what you mean by beach. Shallow and sandy(no chance of snaggin)? No one swimming? And there are big musky there? Sure. Most people would. Rocky? Not if I knew it was a designated swimming area. Maybe he should put some buoys and ropes around the swimming area.

 

How many people fish Balsam Lake provincial park's beach early in the morning(even though I do not)?

 

I know some fishermen that are so addicted to catching fish they don't care about ethics.. I've even been with guys that because they couldn't catch pike and walleye early season, decided to target bass. I refused to fish and never got invited again but that's fine with me.

 

Although radnine tried to label me as a rude fisherman? I am one of the most ethical fisherman around and am one of the most reasonable people around. But if someone is rude to me, I can be rude back like anyone else.

 

If the guy gets aggitated by people fishing water in front of his property that just happens to be a prime fishing habitat, he should sell and buy another cottage. There is this one lake I go on. This guy has a dock and a floating dock in the lake. This floating dock holds ALOT of big fish. He was constantly telling people to stop fishing the dock. He finally got fed up and sold the cottage. This spot is probably the best known spot on the lake and well fished by the locals. Does he have more rights then the other locals?

 

I tend to agree with everything Radnine has said. And, you seem to be throwing all cottageowners who don't like people fishing their cosk into the same bucket as the few who have been hot-heads with you. I think that'd be like lumping all fishermen into the bucket of those who have trolled by or casted to my dock while its occupied, or even worse - when people are swimming off it.

 

As for the beach -- i just won't fish them, regardless of time of day. I dont care if others do it.....if its someone's swimming beach, its not for fishing regardless of the likelihood of a snag.

 

btw - i'm also not on the kawartha lakes. Maybe its different there (higher concentration of docks, whereas my lake seems to be 2/3 uninhabited, and likely 80-90% at our end of the lake)....but i have to think there's a lot of structure available without fishing docks.

[markiemark70]

I tend to agree with everything Radnine has said. And, you seem to be throwing all cottageowners who don't like people fishing their cosk into the same bucket as the few who have been hot-heads with you. I think that'd be like lumping all fishermen into the bucket of those who have trolled by or casted to my dock while its occupied, or even worse - when people are swimming off it.

 

As for the beach -- i just won't fish them, regardless of time of day. I dont care if others do it.....if its someone's swimming beach, its not for fishing regardless of the likelihood of a snag.

 

btw - i'm also not on the kawartha lakes. Maybe its different there (higher concentration of docks, whereas my lake seems to be 2/3 uninhabited, and likely 80-90% at our end of the lake)....but i have to think there's a lot of structure available without fishing docks.

 

Just curious, why not fish a beach if there is absolutely noone there? What is there to snag on? I agree that I would not fish a dock if there are any landowners visible in the water or not, but I see nothing wrong with fishing unoccupied waters so long as you are responsible enough not to leave anything behind.

[lew]

My fishing days all seem soooo boring compared to some of the days you guys seem to have.

 

Nobody ever yells at me, I never have to yell back at THEM, nobody throws stones at me or threatens to call the cops, no one drives their boat at me to scare me away, or even dives in the water and swims around me to scare the fish away

 

I just go out on the lake, maybe catch a fish or 2 if I'm lucky, and then go home again

 

Maybe I need to take up dock fishing to add some excitement to my days on the water

[Harrison]

Either have I Lew and I have fished at least a couple thousand docks over the years. Especailly on Scugog, we used to run up to the river from Port, put the troller down and fish docks as far as we could for the day.

 

Now, I have had guys ask me to leave, I've had guys warn me not to fish their dock(top of the island as an example) and had one threaten to call the police(Marina).

 

On the other hand, I've had applause after I caught one, I've thrown some folks on the shore some of the baits I was using, and I've had some great chats with some owners around fishing on the lake, water levels etc...

 

I was fishing a T on Cameron lake one year and we won it on docks. My partner for the day had a great line when he zinged a 5lber between the docks and we hear a guy yell from the cottage "HEY, that's Henry" to which my P responded, "we're just borrowing him, he'll be back". I've been using that ever since.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Harrison

[Guest Johnny Bass]

I tend to agree with everything Radnine has said. And, you seem to be throwing all cottageowners who don't like people fishing their cosk into the same bucket as the few who have been hot-heads with you. I think that'd be like lumping all fishermen into the bucket of those who have trolled by or casted to my dock while its occupied, or even worse - when people are swimming off it.

 

As for the beach -- i just won't fish them, regardless of time of day. I dont care if others do it.....if its someone's swimming beach, its not for fishing regardless of the likelihood of a snag.

 

btw - i'm also not on the kawartha lakes. Maybe its different there (higher concentration of docks, whereas my lake seems to be 2/3 uninhabited, and likely 80-90% at our end of the lake)....but i have to think there's a lot of structure available without fishing docks.

 

You're entitled to your opinion. I see you have a hard time comprehending my posts. I even said I can see the point of SOME cottage owners, but you have no right to be rude to a fisherman. Who do these people think they are? They do not own the lake.

 

If people eventually start mouthing off, and throwing stuff at boaters? They will eventually get charged or even worse, catch a beating. Now if you told someone to leave nicely, repeatedly, and they didn't move, then that's when ethics comes into play. Most decent people would leave, unless I guess in the case of a tournament angler trying to win some money.

 

All I was saying is try to be nice. It will get you further in life.

 

Do a poll and see who would fish the beach area if there were big muskies known to patrol it?lol

[cram]

Johnny -- i fish beaches.....natural ones. I don't fish swimming areas, whether there's a likelihood of snagging or not.

 

I know i'm not going to leave a lure on the beach (esp. with 80 lb test), but the guy watching from his cottage doesn't know that so it could be ruining his morning a bit to worry about his kids getting stuck with left-behind-lures ......to me there's no point bothering anyone, whether i'm legally entitled to it or not.

 

Lots of water and natural structure to fish.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

I'd just smile and wave................and keep on fishing.

 

I didn't even wave. I just kept fishing.

 

He doesn't own the entire shoreline.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Johnny Bass

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Johnny -- i fish beaches.....natural ones. I don't fish swimming areas, whether there's a likelihood of snagging or not.

 

I know i'm not going to leave a lure on the beach (esp. with 80 lb test), but the guy watching from his cottage doesn't know that so it could be ruining his morning a bit to worry about his kids getting stuck with left-behind-lures ......to me there's no point bothering anyone, whether i'm legally entitled to it or not.

 

Lots of water and natural structure to fish.

 

If the fishing area is a known designated swimming area? And I know there is a chance of a snag? I will also not fish the area.

 

I've had hooks stuck in me and it is not a good feeling at all.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Johnny Bass

[HTHM]

I'd say 'nuff said.

[alphaalpha]

Johnny, thank you for your posts. There are many of us here that fish docks and do so politely, with the safety of others in mind. To be told that we are rude for doing so seems quite arrogant to me and their holier than thou attitude grows quite tiresome.

 

It is unfortunate that you got slammed so much throughout this thread and I applaud your efforts for trying to talk some sense into people. No matter how futile it may have been.

 

I think from all the posts of people that say they fish docks and the precautions they take to not leave/create any hazards for people speaks for itself.

 

AA.

[Twocoda]

STRESSSS flows through the waters of the Kawarthassssss....i fish to relieve it ....not to create it (insert "hands out Quaalude icon here)

 

Riddle me this-If a fishermen owns a cottage and fishes his own dock...whats that make him?

 

Answer :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One lucky sonofa Gun

[F_ast]

Cottagers are group of people who the politicians know pay property taxes and, whether right or wrong, feel that by paying those taxes they should receive some benefit, property ownership also includes certain 'rights'.

 

We as fishermen, on the other hand, pay a relatively small fee compared to property taxes for a license which allows us the 'privilege' of fishing.

 

Privileges are much easier to take away than rights under law - so who do you think will win in the end? The golden rule says that the ones with the most gold make the rules.

 

It is the 1% of fishermen that are the problem, just like it was the 1% of boaters that lead to the ridiculous concept of the boaters card.

 

Dan

The only time a person can ever contest a fisherman is if the actual home owner owns the Water right of way, and if you take to any realestate agent, you find that less than 1% of owners do... not saying anything about snagging docks and boats on this one though. I would have an issue if fisherman left hooks and lures scattered all over my property, but that is never the case. I have a little daughter, a very active swimming Yellow Lab and friends at our cottage all the time. I have never once had an issue with someone snagging bottom or our dock and leaving a lure.

 

One thing about cottagers creating a "No fishing docks" law. I beleive this would open an enormous can of worms. No pun intended. What about cottagers than enjoy fishing from their dock? You cant have a law that states because you own property near a public place, you have the right and someone else does not. I personally thing more cottagers enjoy the ability to fish from than not. This would be a real heart breaker for the kids, that's for sure.

[Terry]

I am very interested in this discussion, and I thought I would share my opinion just before it gets locked.

 

 

As for the difference between what's right vs what's legal, my favourite example is from a forgettable movie I saw a few years back: Two men are in a restaurant and man 1 decides to light up a cigar. Man 2 says "Excuse me, would you mind not smoking that here? I am trying to eat. Man 1 says "There is no law that says I can't smoke this here." Man2 replies: "I'm not talking about laws, I am talking about courtesy. You see, there is no law that says I can't walk over there and fart all over your entree, but that wouldn't be very nice would it?"

 

Bout sums it up.

 

In before the lock.

 

I see it differently

even years ago most restaurants had smoking and non smoking areas and there were smoking and non smoking restaurants

it is pretty arrogant of someone to go in a smoking area(restaurant) and ask someone to quit smoking....so if you buy waterfront you have to take the good and the bad....

[hirk]

Cottagers are group of people who the politicians know pay property taxes and, whether right or wrong, feel that by paying those taxes they should receive some benefit, property ownership also includes certain 'rights'.

 

We as fishermen, on the other hand, pay a relatively small fee compared to property taxes for a license which allows us the 'privilege' of fishing.

 

Privileges are much easier to take away than rights under law - so who do you think will win in the end? The golden rule says that the ones with the most gold make the rules.

 

It is the 1% of fishermen that are the problem, just like it was the 1% of boaters that lead to the ridiculous concept of the boaters card.

 

Dan

[hirk]

The above post is exactly what leads to tension between cottagers and fisherman,too many cottagers have a misguided view of these percieved "rights" that leads them to think they have a form of ownership over the adjacent water from their property.There are no "rights" that go along with ownership beyond existing property laws,plan and simple.They are in place and clearly outline a parties rights,just as I have no legal right to trespass, they have no legal right to infringe on someone fishing the adjacent shoreline.