Big Bad Wolf

[cram]

i think you just listed everything that a deer can do? even pigs can do all the things you just listed...

 

so, what makes wolves better than pigs or deer?

 

And its not fine to just shoot deer and leave them in the bush to rot, is it?

[Conshus1]

New world record, shot in Alberta I beleive, google "world record wolf" it will bring you to a film companies web site, apparently they got it all on tape.

 

 

 

If this was caught on tape then this animal was bread and released then killed for the story.

[mbac31]

I hseveral Wolf Fish. They are indeed ugly fish an can even bite through a fuel line in a tiller boat. Funny that someone posted that. I hope the fish was caught dead in a trap as they have been on the endangered list for some time and killing one gets you a very large fine.

[cram]

I hseveral Wolf Fish. They are indeed ugly fish an can even bite through a fuel line in a tiller boat. Funny that someone posted that. I hope the fish was caught dead in a trap as they have been on the endangered list for some time and killing one gets you a very large fine.

 

caught on a rod apparently....i found it on a google search from this site - http://fishing-norway.com/index.php?side=N...ultat&id=10

[archie_james_c]

You guys still fighting over this? Lets go fishing!!!

[John Bacon]

Mike. I claimed to have seen wolves of that size in a wolf thread a year or so go. I was told that I didn't know what I was talking about, that I'm a liar, that I'm crazy and should be committed. So I guess that you're all of those things too. Maybe we could get adjoining rooms in the same institution and arrange our weekend passes at the same time and do a little fishing? As long as we're back by 5.

 

By the way, the wolves of that magnitude that I've seen have been in the Hudson Bay lowlands. Maybe it had something to do with those wild mushrooms that I couldn't get enough of.

 

If I remember correctly, the deer you claim to have seen was five feet at the shoulder. According to Answers.com white tail deer are 32 to 40 inches at the shoulder. A wolf the size of a deer wouldn't be much more than a bight sized snack for what you claim to have seen.

[irishfield]

You might wanna check the size of a Canadian whitetail ...to the US mid state whitetails you have specs for there John! The fawns in my back yard are +32" to the shoulder.. 3 to 4 year Does over 4 feet. Marty's little 5 point buck was probably 54" to the shoulder... unless they consider something different as the "shoulder" than I do.

Edited March 2, 2010 by irishfield

[danc]

Seen this guy a while back. I'd guess that his legs are over 36" John. Look at the mangled rack on him It's all over the place. Point is, he is one old huge aminal.

 

[ch312]

And its not fine to just shoot deer and leave them in the bush to rot, is it?

 

so basically you should have started off by saying that you are against hunting animals that wont be eaten and not that you are only against wolf hunting. i can only assume that not too many wolves are shot each year in ontario which would imply that most hunters who shoot one would be happy with their trophy. they would likely take the hide and get it tanned or donate the hide. the meat would likely be fed to dogs or left in the bush...just like coyotes.

 

make up your mind here...are you against wolf hunting just because or are you against hunting that involves leaving meat in the bush? these are two totally different debates...

[bigfish1965]

Uhh..deer in these parts are MUCH bigger than that John. If I am standing beside one and we're eye to eye (I'm 5'11") like a few weeks back...they gotta be bigger than that!

 

I can see why some people are against wolf hunting. They are very close to dogs. We all love dogs. Some of us..mostly those who do not live anywhere near a wolf...see them as kind of majestic creatures. We see lots of deer and don't really have that mystique.

Personally, I would not shoot a wolf. Would I shoot a coyote? I don't know. A few years ago the answer would have been no, but they are like vermin here now, so my answer is 50-50 either way.

It's all relative to your experience, I think.

I'd never shoot a polar bear, but a black bear yes. I would shoot a moose, but not a white moose. Does that follow any logic? No. But it is not always going to be black and white. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

[John Bacon]

Mabe Scarborough has smaller deer... I have certainly never seen one that would be eye to eye with me. I assume the 42" is average so many would be taller than that but 60" ???

[cram]

so basically you should have started off by saying that you are against hunting animals that wont be eaten and not that you are only against wolf hunting. i can only assume that not too many wolves are shot each year in ontario which would imply that most hunters who shoot one would be happy with their trophy. they would likely take the hide and get it tanned or donate the hide. the meat would likely be fed to dogs or left in the bush...just like coyotes.

 

make up your mind here...are you against wolf hunting just because or are you against hunting that involves leaving meat in the bush? these are two totally different debates...

 

Actually if you go back and read the thread you'll see i started off by saying "hope they ate'em". The majority of my argument (which is probably what you`re referring to) was in response to another poster suggesting htat anyone against hunting wolves is basically a member of P3TA.

 

I`m not at all anti-hunting. I don`t like hunting for sport when the meat isn`t harvested. Especially when they`re wolves....which i do find to be pretty magnificent creatures (and a non-nuisance animal).

 

Doesn`t make me a member of P3TA.

 

That said, to each his own.

[solopaddler]

But my understanding of sentience is self-awareness which involves the understanding of ones own mortality beyond fight or flight.

 

 

Indeed. Mankinds greatest burden to bear is the knowledge of his own mortality.

 

Who's to say though what really goes through the mind of an animal.

A lot more than we realize I'll bet.

 

Personally I think they're all plotting against us and must be shot!

Edited March 2, 2010 by solopaddler

[Cookslav]

I`m not at all anti-hunting. I don`t like hunting for sport when the meat isn`t harvested. Especially when they`re wolves....

I don't blame anyone for hunting wolves...it is legal. But, i do think it should be illegal.

 

If you don't participate....in my books is fine.

If you don't Like it....in my books its still fine.

But Suggesting it be illegal based on a personal set of ethics is not.

And yes it is in fact right on par with P3TA ethics like it or not

 

If its not your cup of tea...say so

But don't get heated with some one suggests you re-think your position on a fishing/Hunting forum

When the likeness of your veiw is colaborated in spades with the likes of P3TA.

 

Sugesting wolf hunting be illegal feeds directly into the P3TA Machine....

First its "save the wolves", next its fishing is Murder...

Catch my drift?

 

I'm not suggesting your a full blown member of P3TA, I'm merely pointing out a hypocritical point in your post which perhaps you could clarify or retract?

 

Not hunting based on a personal choice is cool...

Not hunting and suggesting it should be illegal....not so much

[cram]

If you don't participate....in my books is fine.

If you don't Like it....in my books its still fine.

But Suggesting it be illegal based on a personal set of ethics is not.

And yes it is in fact right on par with P3TA ethics like it or not

 

If its not your cup of tea...say so

But don't get heated with some one suggests you re-think your position on a fishing/Hunting forum

When the likeness of your veiw is colaborated in spades with the likes of P3TA.

 

Sugesting wolf hunting be illegal feeds directly into the P3TA Machine....

First its "save the wolves", next its fishing is Murder...

Catch my drift?

 

I'm not suggesting your a full blown member of P3TA, I'm merely pointing out a hypocritical point in your post which perhaps you could clarify or retract?

 

Not hunting based on a personal choice is cool...

Not hunting and suggesting it should be illegal....not so much

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm all for hunting when the animal is harvested for food. Don't like it when the carcass is left in the woods (especially when its a wolf). If you think that makes me a member of P3TA, then i guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

I also think musky fishing with live bait should be illegal (kills too many fish), and i throw musky lures all season. Does that make me a member of P3TA as well?

[bassman87]

theres nothing better for muskie on the niagra than a smallmouth bass. you didnt hear it from me though

[cram]

theres nothing better for muskie on the niagra than a smallmouth bass. you didnt hear it from me though

 

Even better is an Atlantic. Musky love'm.

[Headhunter]

I received this message via email from my wife today. She is a school principal in Scarborough and her school is located right on the Scarborough bluffs...

 

"Was slowed down by 2 magnificent deer this morning and then saw a large figure in distance on road which I thought was a deer, oh no – a nice big coyote!!!!!!!!

My caretaker then reported the coyote flew across front lawn of our school at 8:30 this morning.

 

Pretty wild pardon the pun."

 

 

I know for a fact that my wife wouldn't be able to tell the difference from a Coyote, wolf or fox, but I thought it was appropriate based to some degree on this discussion... I know, I know, no pics, no furry creatiure.

HH

[John Bacon]

Seen this guy a while back. I'd guess that his legs are over 36" John. Look at the mangled rack on him It's all over the place. Point is, he is one old huge aminal.

 

 

Personally I can't really judge the height of the deer without something beside it to provide some scale... interestingly a quick google search lists Elk as being 4 to 5 feet at the shoulder with only the bulls approaching the upper range. That makes it pretty hard for me to picture a wolf or white tail reaching that size.

[danc]

Personally I can't really judge the height of the deer without something beside it to provide some scale... interestingly a quick google search lists Elk as being 4 to 5 feet at the shoulder with only the bulls approaching the upper range. That makes it pretty hard for me to picture a wolf or white tail reaching that size.

 

Google and askme searches are great, but nothing is better than witnessing something for yourself. You're right. There's nothing in the photo to guage the animal with. I'm pretty sure that nobody that works at either google or askme saw this particlular animal, but I did. Here's my best guess. 40"legs, 24" leg to shoulder, 14"shoulder to ears. That's a 6 1/2 foot animal before you add the antlers. You wouldn't want to get between him and a doe during the rut. John, I see these massive animals frequently. If I wasn't stuck in Red Lake right now I could try to go out and get something in a photo to scale it with. They are common in the north.

[Carp]

Cram,

 

You are wrong on so many points about wolves. They DO hunt in packs, but they DO NOT organise ambushes. In fact, there is little planned cooperation when they bring down an animal. So before you make sweeping statements, at least get educated.

 

Here's a wiki page to get you started:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Wolf

 

Your emotional/intelligent argument is also out of place. You don't know what an animal thinks or feels, and there are rarely correct ways to rank intelligence. Wolves have a seemingly complicated pack life, but you don't know what that is based on. Ants seemingly have an even more comlicated community life than wolves, a life that even humans would have difficulty organising. Is an ant smarter than you?

 

I seen wolves chasing a deer while I watched from my tree stand. Just NE of Newmarket. Yes, they were wolves. 2 almost as big as the one in this thread and a third about the size of a full grown German Sheppard.

 

The deer ran along the edge of a field, around a corner and down into a gully. Three wolves appeared at the edge of the field and appeared to be communicating about how to get the deer, which was now circling back into the bush. Two wolves went after the deer and a third doubled back into the bush to cut off the deer as it tried to run back through the forest.

 

After a few minutes, the two wolves that went after the deer re-appeared at the edge of the forest, completing a big circle. The third wolf remained in the bush, listening and waiting for the deer to run back to the deep woods. I made a soft doe call and they started walking toward me. Had them about 15 yards away, when they walked behind a small bush, just big enough to conceal them, and disappeared. Kind of freaked me out a bit how they just vanished. I watched that bush for about 20 minutes and nothing moved out from behind the bush. I was worried about getting out of my stand because I wasn't sure if they had left.

 

Yes, I believe wolves have some planning and strategy to their hunts. Never would have believed it if I hadn't seem it myself.

[Daplumma]

I am with Dan on this one.Art Linkletter imported Elk and Canadian strain deer down her a long time ago.His old house is within sight of my house.I have seen whitetails that would blow your mind here..not the antlers..the body mass is huge.Those Texas deer with the big antlers are no match for the Canadian monsters down here.Y'all got a great strain of deer up there.

Joe

[Cookslav]

I also think musky fishing with live bait should be illegal (kills too many fish), and i throw musky lures all season. Does that make me a member of P3TA as well?

 

No,

But its an odd position for me to digest?...and I'm guessing I'm not alone in that statement.

 

I would understand your stance if you thought live bait should be illegal in general for all species....

But if the only reason you think it should be illegal is the Musky mortality rate I'm confused?

Why view the life of musky over an above all other fish?

 

Ethically speaking it is very narrow to me...I don't mean to be offensive but its odd to me?

It's really just kind of strange to pick and choose which creatures deserve more protection or respect then others based on what you

consider to be smarter animals?

 

I could agree to disagree and appreciate your stance if there was a rhyme or reason such as endangered numbers.

But to pick and choose species for protection over and above others and point the stick at your fellow sportsman as foul comes across as a bit arrogant IMO

 

But I suppose in some ways it is better then a blanket statement which is what P3TA does....although in truth their position is a bit more clear LOL.

 

[cram]

No,

But its an odd position for me to digest?...and I'm guessing I'm not alone in that statement.

 

I would understand your stance if you thought live bait should be illegal in general for all species....

But if the only reason you think it should be illegal is the Musky mortality rate I'm confused?

Why view the life of musky over an above all other fish?

 

Ethically speaking it is very narrow to me...I don't mean to be offensive but its odd to me?

It's really just kind of strange to pick and choose which creatures deserve more protection or respect then others based on what you

consider to be smarter animals?

 

I could agree to disagree and appreciate your stance if there was a rhyme or reason such as endangered numbers.

But to pick and choose species for protection over and above others and point the stick at your fellow sportsman as foul comes across as a bit arrogant IMO

 

But I suppose in some ways it is better then a blanket statement which is what P3TA does....although in truth their position is a bit more clear LOL.

 

 

You caught me. I'm the president of P3TA Canada. Bravo.

 

If my position isn't clear enough by now you're either just not listening or enjoying the argument. Sorry man, but lets let this die. Am sure others on the board are tired of reading our bickering back and forth. Agree to disagree.

Edited March 3, 2010 by cram

[cram]

I seen wolves chasing a deer while I watched from my tree stand. Just NE of Newmarket. Yes, they were wolves. 2 almost as big as the one in this thread and a third about the size of a full grown German Sheppard.

 

The deer ran along the edge of a field, around a corner and down into a gully. Three wolves appeared at the edge of the field and appeared to be communicating about how to get the deer, which was now circling back into the bush. Two wolves went after the deer and a third doubled back into the bush to cut off the deer as it tried to run back through the forest.

 

After a few minutes, the two wolves that went after the deer re-appeared at the edge of the forest, completing a big circle. The third wolf remained in the bush, listening and waiting for the deer to run back to the deep woods. I made a soft doe call and they started walking toward me. Had them about 15 yards away, when they walked behind a small bush, just big enough to conceal them, and disappeared. Kind of freaked me out a bit how they just vanished. I watched that bush for about 20 minutes and nothing moved out from behind the bush. I was worried about getting out of my stand because I wasn't sure if they had left.

 

Yes, I believe wolves have some planning and strategy to their hunts. Never would have believed it if I hadn't seem it myself.

 

Yep - its pretty smart stuff. They will also line up and "relay race" deer and other game.....instead of a mob of wolves chasing a deer and tiring together, they set up in advance spots along a projected chase line to take turns running the deer into an ambush. Really smart and forward thinking. Requires advance planning and collaboration. Can read about some of it here - http://books.google.ca/books?id=_mXHuSSbiG...egy&f=false

Edited March 3, 2010 by cram