Guiding?

[ChrisK]

My point is, if you've only ever caught dink muskies or average size bass, or any other species for that matter, because you really don't know where the big girls live yourself, or how to catch them, how can you possibly call yourself a guide and charge folks $$$$ for your services.

 

Pardon me but I don't agree Lew...Your pretty much saying if you don't put people on too big fish consistently your not guide material but just a wannabe scammer. That may very well be the way it is in the muskie fishing industry but I don't think its the way it is across the board. If your a trophy hunter then you go out and hire a trophy hunter guide but most people just want to get out to unfamiliar waters with a guide and have a memorable day.From what I can remember not only does the guide offer up some fishing experience but also offers his knowledge of the area. Also, alot of people that hire guides come with fishing experience but just want to be taken to new waters for a day without having to haul a boat or rent a cabin and such.

You got to understand that not everyone is a trophy hunter including myself. I'm a recreational type fisherman that enjoys going out, taking in some fresh air and if I catch fish its a bonus. I guess these days its all about your expectations when you go out looking for your fishing guide ????

Check out this link.

http://www.great-fishing.com/

[Garnet]

Being a guide has nothing to do with your fishing ability.

 

A guide's job is to get clients to catch fish. What that means most of the time is to dum it down.

 

As a guide you get very few seasoned clients, most you start by teaching rod and real mechanics get them making decent consistent cast, then you put the boat in position to catch fish.

 

Great Lakes trolling charters takes the rod out of the clients hands but now you better be entertaining.

 

When you hire a U.S. guide they are mostly licensed and that means safety first not weather they are good anglers.

 

Garnet

[Spiel]

Now, what happens when you hire a guide who, even though he tells big stories and pretends to be an expert at everything related to fishing, when infact he doesn't really have that much experience and hasn't even caught any big fish himself.

 

A rule that applies to most any expenditure, do your homework before spending your coin.

This could help enusure your not spending good money for a less than par product/service.

 

Ask for references, talk to former customers, research, research and more research.

[lew]

Pardon me but I don't agree Lew...

 

Your pretty much saying if you don't put people on too big fish consistently your not guide material but just a wannabe scammer.

 

 

 

From what I can remember not only does the guide offer up some fishing experience but also offers his knowledge of the area.

 

And your certainly entitled to your opinion Chris.

 

I'm talking about about people who call themselves guides and charge clients $$$$ but can't put them onto big fish or even numbers because THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE THEMSELVES. If you don't know yourself, how can you guide paying customers to the spots that hold them ??

 

Anybody can hang out a guide shingle and pretend to know what their doing, but in my opinion that's nothing more than a scam. Take out in-experienced folks and put on an act and you can look like a real pro, but a fisherman that knows his stuff would see right thru the act.

 

It's one thing to offer a free seat in your boat to maybe help a newbie out, but to put on a guides hat & charge for your knowledge that you don't have it is nothing more than stealing to me.

 

I'm not a hunter nor do I have a gun, although I used be, but I could easily pass the test, buy a gun and then hire myself out as a hunting guide to newbies and wander the woods with them and pretend to be an expert. Tell enuff tales and how would they know the difference ??

 

No different that fishing guides.

 

All I'm saying is some guys pretend to be what their not and take $$$$ for things their not entitled to.

 

I personally know of people that are charging $$$$ to be a guide when they couldn't catch a big fish in a rain barrel with a pitch fork, yet they talk like their a leading expert on the sport.

 

As I said in my original post.......nuthin worse than a scammer.

[Krisco]

John,

 

I had to go back and read your thread over again,,, is this post really about becoming a guide or is it about using the skills and knowledge that we have all acquired in our chosen fields and finding a way to make money using these skills by selling them to others ???

 

This might be the path that you have taken to make a few extra bucks and if it works for you so be it, doesn't mean that it's for everyone.

 

Let me know when your appearing at my local Holiday Inn and I will try to attend.

[ChrisK]

John,

 

I had to go back and read your thread over again,,, is this post really about becoming a guide or is it about using the skills and knowledge that we have all acquired in our chosen fields and finding a way to make money using these skills by selling them to others ???

 

This might be the path that you have taken to make a few extra bucks and if it works for you so be it, doesn't mean that it's for everyone.

 

Let me know when your appearing at my local Holiday Inn and I will try to attend.

 

Good point Krisco...I think he touched off on a little of everything on his original post but things just ended up going towards the fishing end, go figure !!

[JohnF]

"So how come more accomplished fisherpersons like Mike (Solopaddler) aren't getting something back for the wealth of knowledge they share with the rest of us? I'm only using Mike as an example (hope you don't mind) because his name was mentioned in this regard."

 

How do you figure they don't get anything back for their efforts? and why would you give the things you like best away?

Almost every person I know who uses their favourite passed time for money usually ends up hating it because it becomes WORK!!!!

 

 

I can think of lots of hobbies that happily involve making money. Any of you who have ever raced motorized vehicles for fun know how important even little cash prizes are towards the costs of operation. There are those who would say professional hockey players are just grown up boys still playing their favourite game, albeit for millions of bux. All kinds of collectors sell off certain things to allow them to buy better collectibles. Athletes with aspirations to higher levels of attainment look for financial help to cover the cost of their efforts to excel. I know successful amateur golfers who sell off valuable prizes.

 

And sometimes those who excel want to share their excellence, not hide it under a barrel, so why shouldn't they accept money from aspirants to that same level of excellence willing to pay to learn?

 

The problem with excellence is generally it costs a lot to achieve. In the case of sportfishing it means probably not settling for my $50 - $100 rods and $100 - $150 reels or my $100 set of waders (felt soled boots included), rather going for the two and three hundred dollar spinning reels, the three to five hundred dollar baitcasters, and $500 - $1,000 centrepins, the thousand dollar rods (I once met a flyfisherman with what he claimed were two $2,000 rods in his car) and so on. It means spending a lot of money for multiple trips every year to faraway spots in Northern Ontario, or the American west in search of little bitty trout in drainage ditches, and even Alaska in some cases, eh, Mike? It means buying and discarding a variety of fishing lines until you find the one that's truly the best instead of letting economics rule and settling for the first or even second one you bought. Some serious fishermen wouldn't dream of getting more than one year out of their lines, even braids. Guys like me will run the line till it starts to break off.

 

As for giving up one's hard-earned secrets, the fact is that only a small percentage of what the teacher imparts is retained so it would take as least as long as it took the teacher to learn the stuff to get a paying student to remember it. There's little danger of ever having your brain that thoroughly picked. And besides, even if the beneficiary of the collected wisdom absorbs, comprehends and retains it all the donor doesn't lose anything at all. It's all still squirreled away in his little fishing crazy brain. And in all likelihood a teacher would seldom come anywhere close to sharing all the secrets, only enough to impress the student. In fact the act of sharing probably does a lot to reinforce certain skills and knowledge in the teacher, not to mention the satisfaction taken from seeing someone proud of their own improvement.

 

Access to good guiding and encouragement to the inexperienced fishermen to use it should produce not only a higher skill and knowledge level, but perhaps more importantly a higher ethical standard among fishermen. I don't believe all the bad things done in the name of fishing are anything more than a lack of understanding of how the fishery and the critters need to be protected. There will always be those who will transgress for their own reasons but if we could eliminate the unintentionally unethical fishermen from the scene it would sure help.

 

And that brethren, is my sermon for this sunny Sunday morning. We will now pass the plates for your generous offerings.

 

Bless you, my children.

 

JF

[Guest gbfisher]

"I personally know of people that are charging $$$$ to be a guide when they couldn't catch a big fish in a rain barrel with a pitch fork, yet they talk like their a leading expert on the sport. "

 

 

Lot's of them around Lew. It will never change and it doesnt have to be fishing.

[lew]

Lot's of them around Lew. It will never change and it doesnt have to be fishing.

 

You got that right Andy

[JohnF]

PS,..one thing I though about,...would you have to be constantly babying the Guideeeees? Like retying for them etc,....what about their gear? I would think you could only get newbs with no gear to pay a good price to make a living,...

 

I'll take a shot at that as a potential guideeeee. Among the things I want to learn are to tie lures, bait my hooks properly, maintain my own gear, unhook my catch, clean my own fish, etc. I'd expect to be shown properly - once, then I'd want to practise those things knowing that the expert wasn't too far away in case I screw it up. I'm not talking about a deep sea fishing tour where there are deckhands to bait my hooks, chum the water, gaff the catch and even tell me when I have a fish on. I don't want someone to clean my fish at the end of the day. I want to learn to do it myself. I'm the kind of people I'd want to guide. The rest I'd turn down.

 

JF

[Roy]

*ker-plink* Here's a toonie for your knowledge, John. This is turning out to be an interesting thread.

[JohnF]

How would you feel taking 2 guys to your best steelhead spot on river X and watch them take their limit home. And 2 days later when you come back and they're there with 2 buddies all with the kill chains out.

 

I would say that any guide who takes strangers to his very best spots deserves to lose them.

 

If folks need a guide to show them the ropes then they aren't gonna know good from great. If someone becomes a repeat client then eventually the guide may feel comfortable with sharing knowing that he can trust them. Or maybe the guiding is to spots the guide has never worked before. I'd far sooner go to some far northern river with someone like Mike than with just some of my buddies. I expect he'd be better at reading the water and finding fish in strange water than most of us.

 

JF

[Streamerguy]

Forget about guiding Mike. You truly and honestly deserve to have your own 1 Hour Fishing TV Show!!

 

I could be your apprentice or carry what ever you need ?

(let me know)

 

Streamerguy

[JohnF]

I had to go back and read your thread over again,,, is this post really about becoming a guide or is it about using the skills and knowledge that we have all acquired in our chosen fields and finding a way to make money using these skills by selling them to others ???

 

Yes.

 

This might be the path that you have taken to make a few extra bucks and if it works for you so be it, doesn't mean that it's for everyone.

 

Exactly.

 

Let me know when your appearing at my local Holiday Inn and I will try to attend.

 

It'd have to be in the bar. Will you be buying?

 

Seriously. I posted this as one relatively new to fishing (after a 5 decade hiatus at least). Now that I have gotten comfortable with bass fishing I would like to have someone as knowledgable as Mike show me around some rivers to help me get the fundamentals float fishing down instead of fumbling with knots and gear and perhaps giving up in frustration.

 

I was fortunate enought to run across Garry2rs who showed me a whole bunch I didn't know and took me out on his bassboat to boot. I had a lot of fun, saw a lot of techniques I'd never have figured out on my own, learned to cast better, even with a baitcaster, and picked up a lot of tidbits about bassfishing generally that I now can apply when I go wading around here. Sure, I'd love to catch the monsters Lew's talking about, but aren't monsters the exception, not the rule. As soon as they become commonplace, they're not special any longer. I'm happy as a clam just catching decent fish with some small degree of competence.

 

I didn't mean to get into the relative merits of guides, only what the value of the right guide could be to a neophyte fisherperson, and why aren't more of the accomplished fishermen getting a little money back from it. If I was an accomplished fisherperson then I might be tempted to try to buy an expert like Lew into taking me out on a musky hunt but since the only muskies I've ever seen alive were either in an aquarium or hanging in the lee of a wreck in the St.Lawrence 30 feet below the surface then I'd settle for any puny little musky that might be willing to chomp down on my lure. Given the old saw about muskies being the fish of 10,000 casts, or was it 100,000, then I'd consider myself privileged to be shown around by someone with Lew's expertise. My question doesn't preclude Musky experts letting their hard earned knowledge pay for new boats and gear.

 

JF

[JohnF]

*ker-plink* Here's a toonie for your knowledge, John. This is turning out to be an interesting thread.

 

Thanks Roy. And it's still fun. Go figger.

 

JF

[lew]

I'd consider myself privileged to be shown around by someone with Lew's expertise.

 

John, it would be my utmost pleasure to have you in my boat anytime you want to join me.

 

Infact, I'm buying a country home in the Kawarthas shortly so maybe I'll swap you some fishing lessons for Real Estate lessons.

[JohnF]

John, it would be my utmost pleasure to have you in my boat anytime you want to join me.

 

Infact, I'm buying a country home in the Kawarthas shortly so maybe I'll swap you some fishing lessons for Real Estate lessons.

 

Done. Don't wait for the fishing though if you have any questions on the real estate side. Happy to help.

 

JF

[lew]

Thanks John, will do.

[steverowbotham]

I've been guiding for 5 seasons now, and every year my client base continues to grow. I can't tell anyone that I'm the most experienced guy out there because it's not true. I guarantee that guys like Greg Klatt and Paul Castellano can bring more to the table as far as experience goes. But being 23, thats expected. I feel I have accomplished a lot in the 5 years I have been doing this. I've been fishing minimum 80-120 days a year since I was 15 years old, and that kind of time on the water is experience and knowledge. As a guide, I love it. I love putting people on fish and sharing knowledge and passion for the sport. I have still not had a fishless day out there with a client and I am very proud of that. As I get older, people seem to put more trust in me, and again, thats expected. I had 4 time, a 3 time repeats this season, and it happens for a reason. I pre-fish for guiding clients. If I have to meet them at 8am, I'm there at first light, and I'll scout the lake for an hour an a half. If I have an afternoon 4-8 charter, I might go as early as 10am to fish without hooks or try and spot shallow fish. It's paid off many times. In general, when you pay for a guide, you're getting your money's worth.

[NAC]

He won't take locals out, only out of towners.

 

It has to be that way.

[Reelpro]

Hi

 

Why not ? From a guide's perspective.

 

I am fairly new to the guiding business. I am not a river fisherman, I just guide on inland lakes and GB.

 

Anyone looking to get into the business of guiding needs to really check out all the new Transport Canada rules and regulations and training requirements, that have come into effect in Canada in Oct 2009.

 

There are a lot of guys out there who guide sort of under the table. They do not actually have a licenced business, they often do not have the safety/ first aid equipment that is required by law. They do not have insurance, they don't have the proper boat registration, pay taxes, etc, etc.

 

Charter operators are now required to have a Small Commercial Vessel Operators Certificate, or a Master's Limited depending on their boat size. This means anyone receiving $$$ for taking people out fishing in a boat.

Does'nt matter if it is a car topper with oars, or a Canoe, or a 30 foot Great Lakes charter boat.

Lots of guys in for a surprise this coming season, when OPP inspect their Bass boat, for TC approval, documents, Federal registration etc.

 

To be a "legal" Charter operator in central Ontario, I posses and carry with me Liability Insurance, SVOP Certificate, RROC Certificate, MEDA3 Certificate, First Aid/CPR Certificate, PCOC Card, Federal Boat Registy #

 

Does any of this make me a good fisherman - no. It is all the "red tape" required to operate legally, and the reason is to have the charter operator/guide have some training in how to safely drive his boat, maintain a safe ship, in my case a 22' bowrider with an outboard, and have some emergency/first aid training.

 

In our litigeous society we live in now, where people sue because the coffee is to hot, I would be wary even guiding people river fishing. Think their family might have a problem with a "guide" who took a guy out wading and he slipped and fell, hit his head, drowned? Lawsuit? Better set up a business and get it insured, get some first aid and emergency training, etc etc. In this country we live in its called "Due Diligence" a nice term for do everything you can think of to cover your ass in case of an accident.

 

Re the fun stuff, the actual fishing. It is still a blast. I have as much fun taking out charter customers as I do fishing with friends. The best days are still someone's first. Their very first fish they've ever caught, or their first Muskie, Pike, Channel Catfish etc. I guide lots of families, kids, and people new to fishing, so its a real kick to watch them when a big fish gets on.

 

I rarely have "meat" fisherman, as I fish heavily fished lakes in Muskoka, Kawartha, Haliburton, so I tell most enquiries that are looking to take home cooler loads, to go up north. There are drive to lakes, within 6 hrs of Toronto that you can catch 50 walleye a day per person. Most groups will keep a few fish to eat, but many just want the experience of it. It is always a great day on the water. Just to take in the environment, the fresh air, sights and wildlife of a beautiful Ontario Lake. Some days the fishing part is fantastic - dozens of fish caught, other days its just a few, but the adventure of fishing is the fun.

 

For anyone seriously looking to take up guiding as a business, or if you already do it and need some of the training or certifications the gov't is requiring, check out the OSGA Ontario Sportfishing Guides Association.

www.ontariofishcharters.ca

They can help with the red tape and training.

 

GL in 2K10

[JohnF]

For anyone seriously looking to take up guiding as a business, or if you already do it and need some of the training or certifications the gov't is requiring, check out the OSGA Ontario Sportfishing Guides Association.

www.ontariofishcharters.ca

They can help with the red tape and training.

 

Great points.

 

JF

[Guest gbfisher]

The truely sad part about being a guide and having your spots lost to clients and is what keeps most away from guiding. No amount of money is worth showing people where you have spent your entire life fishing. A lot of new wanna be guides out there have done exactly that. They take clients to Other people spots. The spots that they have learned from other true guides and if it wasnt for the true guide who took them...none of the wanna be guides would even have a business.

[solopaddler]

Forget about guiding Mike. You truly and honestly deserve to have your own 1 Hour Fishing TV Show!!

 

I could be your apprentice or carry what ever you need ?

(let me know)

 

Streamerguy

 

 

I came very close to achieving that 3 years ago, had several networks interested and my partner and I had already filmed one episode.

Such are the vagaries of life though, the project was scuttled just as it was taking off.

 

There's been some excellent points made regarding why not to be a river guide.

These are some of the very reasons that have caused me to hedge on doing it.

I do belive that a balance could be struck and it could be done properly though.

First and foremost would be "where?".

I have a few ideas...

[Meegs]

I know that I had thought long and hard about starting up a guiding business for river fishing, but finally came to the conclusion that it just wasnt worth it, too many spots to loose. Its one thing if your going to guide from a boat. Not that many people in general have a boat. alot of people cant afford buying a boat or are willing to spend the $ to buy all the gear involved. So spending $$ on a guide that will take you out and show you how its done is well worth it. they'll pay for the experience alone cause ITS NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN JUST GO AND DO ON ANY GIVEN DAY. Where as if you go and guide people on rivers.... all they need is the gas $$$ and a car and a bit of walking effort and they will get there!

I think the thing is that with a boat you have so many options where to go, what to fish for, and have a good chunk of the season to fish.

With the Rivers or shore fishing there's only so many public access spots! And i know that there are only room for afew people per hole in most rivers. crowds are never fun on rivers. I know it wouldnt be fun trying to show a newbie how to fish a river or a hole and have other guys casting over lines, and i know id be pissed the first time i took a new client out, drove an hour and half, or couple hours walked a half hour to hit a certain hole and show up at the crack of dawn and have the people you took out last week and 3 of there buddies along for the ride hitting fish in your best hole while your new client is looking at you like what the hell?? And you know what? I cant say I'd blame the guys for going there either! hey.. its public access, ANYONE can fish it!

 

I thik it may be different if it were a large river like the niagra or rivers in BC. but even out there you see the river guides all using drift boats to get to there places.

 

its one thing if the people are flying in or driving from far off places to have a fishing trip of a lifetime, but id be careful when its people in your own backyard.