Walmart

[Fishnwire]

This sounds like something I have heard over and over again aswell,,,,,,,

 

 

Give me, give me,then when they want some back,,,,,,,,,,,,

I think you get the pic here.

 

 

Whats the old saying,,,,,,,,

 

You made yer bed,now sleep in it.

 

 

 

As I have said many times,I have worked on bothsides.I,ll take the non, thanks.

 

We can argue about this til the cows come home.

 

Enough said.

 

 

How does what I said sound in any way like what you said? I don't think it does. Where did that even come from?

 

I don't remember complaining about "the bed I'm in", so I not sure where that's coming from either. I'm happy with my job and present level of compensation. I'd simply like to maintain it. I know...how greedy of me, right?

 

I have also worked on both sides. And either our experiences are greatly disimular, and/or we work in different vocations, because I'll take 30% more money and better/safer working conditions over the alternative. I'm pretty sure most people would.

 

You were right when you implied its unlikely we'll ever see eye to eye on this subject though. That's all good. it takes all kinds, right?

Edited November 29, 2009 by Fishnwire

[Whitespinnerbait]

So if a Walmart sized business which competes with the company you work for (assuming one exists) came to your town you'd be eager to see your boss put out of business and you out of a job so your customers could get a better deal? I am fairly certain your tune would change pretty quick.

 

 

[JohnF]

So if a Walmart sized business which competes with the company you work for (assuming one exists) came to your town you'd be eager to see your boss put out of business and you out of a job so your customers could get a better deal? I am fairly certain your tune would change pretty quick.

 

The way I see it, if there was no Walmart in town there'd be others stepping up and offering employment for those who'd lost jobs. So why not have the benefits of Walmart prices and the jobs as well. I'm afraid that all a union adds to the equation is short term employment at slightly better wages. Ultimately the jobs are ruined by the union and I no longer have the good prices. How many folks are willing to settle for short term employment hyphenated by fruitless strikes culminating in loss of jobs? Dunno what the pay scale averages are under the unions any more but I'll bet it's getting to be better in the long run without union involvement. Of course the union serves a purpose for those who aren't saddled with union dues etc but wouldn't all purposes be served by having a union shop in a town nearby where the press will make a mountain out of any threat strikes. That threat carries over to the non-union sector and helps keep the employers fair. Non-union workers must love the union guys. Long live the unions.

 

JF

[Fishnwire]

Of course the union serves a purpose for those who aren't saddled with union dues etc but wouldn't all purposes be served by having a union shop in a town nearby where the press will make a mountain out of any threat strikes. That threat carries over to the non-union sector and helps keep the employers fair. Non-union workers must love the union guys. Long live the unions.

 

JF

 

 

That's exactly right. A lot of times non-unionized workers can get compensation close to or as good as their unionized counterparts simply by threatening to go union. The smart employer realizes that he is better off to give the employees what they're asking for and keep the union out, than allow it in and be forced to make those changes anyway. A lot of people point to this phenomenon as proof that unions are unnecessary but the opposite is true. If the non-unionized employees didn't have the choice of becoming unionized, they wouldn't have the leverage to demand the higher standard, not to mention the higher standard wouldn't exist in the first place.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Fishnwire

[JohnF]

That's exactly right. A lot of times non-unionized workers can get compensation close to or as good as their unionized counterparts simply by threatening to go union. The smart employer realizes that he is better off to give the employees what they're asking for and keep the union out, than allow it in and be forced to make those changes anyway. A lot of people point to this phenomenon as proof that unions are unnecessary but the opposite is true. If the non-unionized employees didn't have the choice of becoming unionized, they wouldn't have the leverage to demand the higher standard, not to mention the higher standard wouldn't exist in the first place.

 

Well, strictly speaking it's the threat of unions that works for the non-union shops, not the unions per se.

 

JF

[crappieperchhunter]

The printing company I work for has union and non union plants. I have worked in both over my 27 years. No benefit to the union shops in my company. The union shops make the same but pay union dues so actually take home less. We all get the same compensation packages/benefits.

 

And as far as Walmart goes....thank god for them. About 20-30% of our print volume is for them. In todays economy we have worked overtime almost every weekend this year and lots of that is due to Walmarts new store openings.

 

Not to mention I shop there as well. As I mentioned I am a printer. I wear crap cloths to work cause they just get ruined anyway. I can buy track pants for $10 at Walmart instead of paying double, triple or more somewhere else. Best quality no..but I'm happy paying $10 for "throw away" cloths. In the long run Walmart works for me on many levels.

 

Todays world...in Canada anyway... has way too many safeguards for companies to pull the same crap they tried years ago. Unions in my opinion are a dinosaur. No need for them in this country as far as I am concerned. BTW I live in Oshawa now. I could spend a whole afternoon telling you what a complete mess GM is in because it has catered to a union for all these years. The ridiculous benefits they have are choking the company to death.

[AzuluSpookd]

I don't know who was the first person to come up with this line of thinking...you hear it over and over again. If I had a dime for every time someone (who doesn't belong to one) has uttered the phrase "unions have outlived their usefulness" I wouldn't care about working for a living because I'd have all the money I'd ever need. The simple and obvious fact is that unions are still needed (perhaps now more than ever) simply to maintain those gains have been fought for and earned by working people over the years. This notion that companies would continue to pay union wages and maintain the kind of health and safety standards that don't exist outside of union shops should they not be forced to through collective bargaining is beyond naive. If their feet weren't being held to the fire they'd like nothing more than for things to go back to being more like they were before unions existed.

 

Since when does a union have an impact on the Health and Safety Act? It could very well be, that some time ago...long ago that unions were instrumental in assisting with the creation of the legislation, UNION OR NOT, the Health and Safety Act applies to all. In short and I'll keep it brief, spreading propoganda that union shops have better health and safety standards is Bull.

 

Now back to the regularly scheduled programming.....

[BUSTER]

I worked for union gas all it did was protect the lazy, and make you lazy, "how dare you work harder than bob who's being here 25 years"..."your making him look bad" ,"ease up!, slow down alittle., take the long way back to the shop,easy man thats a 2 man job its over 50lbs, i've heard all these at work,how about coffee at 230 quit time is at 4 but leave the coffee shop at 325 and take the long way back to the shop,park the van circle check pick nose, go inside burn the clock till 4 with small talk...etc

how about the inco boys sleeping have their shift? and many more stories too, explain that fishingwire,dont forget i have immediate family in your shoes, they'll be more than happy to come on here and back up the inco boys stories including my father a 30 year vet in the mine, not to mention your retartded 6 figure salary and ubber fat nickle bonus, but thats for another thread, unions protect the weak period. how about the many autoworkers who had only grade 10 making boat loads of money, now out of work,cant ever find a job that paid that well and frankly niether will you. isin't that why some people are crossing the line going back to work? they'll never find a job that pay's better than whats offered anyway... greedy,and selfish union workers....lets not go into bus drivers going on strike...ahhhhhhhhhhh

[Fishnwire]

I live in Oshawa now. I could spend a whole afternoon telling you what a complete mess GM is in because it has catered to a union for all these years. The ridiculous benefits they have are choking the company to death.

 

 

Of course GM is in the shape it is because of the unions. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the people who gave themselves millions and millions in bonuses while mismanaging the company and making the decisions to bring to the marketplace vehicles that few people wanted to buy. No no...it must have been the fault of the rank and file who worked the line. Is that what you honestly believe?

 

How was the local economy in Oshawa when there were lots of auto workers making "ridiculous benefits"? How is the same economy now that jobs and wages have been slashed?

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

BTW I live in Oshawa now. I could spend a whole afternoon telling you what a complete mess GM is in because it has catered to a union for all these years. The ridiculous benefits they have are choking the company to death.

 

the difference is that these are full time workers making full time wages.

walmart hires part time workers so they don't have to pay full time wages or benefits.

walmart might make your place of business a better place for the employees, but they aren't known for being good to their own.

i agree that unions are dinosaurs, but walmart is one place that actually could use someone going to bat for their rights...not necessarily unions but who else will?

[crappieperchhunter]

Fishnwire read what I said. GM itself is NOT blameless. Any company can make bad decisions. But a company making bad decisions can recover if it is not being choked to death by the burden of catering to a union. All big companies have overpaid execs, it's a fact of todays world. But the $$$$ they receive is nothing compared to what is doled out to the employees because of the union contracts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW I live in Oshawa now. I could spend a whole afternoon telling you what a complete mess GM is in because it has catered to a union for all these years. The ridiculous benefits they have are choking the company to death.

[holdfast]

the difference is that these are full time workers making full time wages.

walmart hires part time workers so they don't have to pay full time wages or benefits.

walmart might make your place of business a better place for the employees, but they aren't known for being good to their own.

i agree that unions are dinosaurs, but walmart is one place that actually could use someone going to bat for their rights...not necessarily unions but who else will?

 

I totally disagree with you as usual. give them Unions then you get higher wages, then Higher Prices. By the way, tell we who in the service industry does not higher Part timers. In Ontario its the Norm at least in Wasaga and Pembroke.. When I was posted in Petawawa, there was not any Business at all that would hire over 30 hours, including the Donut shops. What you want Timmies to be Unionized. Imagine trying to get into the Union at Walmarts. There goes those jobs for the Luckless.

[bigfish1965]

Are we about done with this?

[crappieperchhunter]

the difference is that these are full time workers making full time wages.

walmart hires part time workers so they don't have to pay full time wages or benefits.

walmart might make your place of business a better place for the employees, but they aren't known for being good to their own.

i agree that unions are dinosaurs, but walmart is one place that actually could use someone going to bat for their rights...not necessarily unions but who else will?

 

I think anyone who works for Walmart knows this stuff going in. You are not promised 40 work weeks and then only getting 24.

They follow the law. If you don't like the employment opportunities they offer go elsewhere. Would I want to work there...no. But if you are going to "settle" for working there I don't think it is fair for you to whiz and moan about the conditions. It is what it is. Many many companies have temporary or part time staff. It is a norm in todays world. I don't like it at all, but these companies are following the laws that our government made. I can't see how you can blame them for that. Perhaps this is more of a political football then it is a union/non union difference of opinion.

[ChrisK]

Wait, There is a unionized Timmies here in London.......Go figure !!

[Fishnwire]

Since when does a union have an impact on the Health and Safety Act? It could very well be, that some time ago...long ago that unions were instrumental in assisting with the creation of the legislation, UNION OR NOT, the Health and Safety Act applies to all. In short and I'll keep it brief, spreading propoganda that union shops have better health and safety standards is Bull.

 

I'm sorry, but you are absolutely incorrect. If you had worked as a tradesman in an inherently unsafe environment for both union and non-union companies as I have, you would know that to be a certainty just as I do. Non-union contractors are often able to do jobs cheaper because of their loser adherence to those standards. When I didn't have papers and was attempting to gain experience in the field, I often did things on the job that I was uncomfortable with, because I knew that there were dozens of equally unskilled guys ready to do it if I didn't want to. If you have never been employed by someone who would think nothing of firing you if you made any trouble for him, while not being in a position to risk being fired, consider yourself lucky, but understand that not everyone has it as good as you do. A lot of guys know that their boss would think nothing of replacing them and simply lying about the reasons for doing so if faced with having to provide the appropriate level of health and safety adherence.

 

When I worked for a non-union contractor I was expected to buy my own fall-arrest safety harness and lanyard or do without. At Inco I am given the best money can buy and instructed to throw it away and get a new one if any part of it shows any sign of wear or distress. Regardless of its condition it is replaced yearly. I could go on and on with similar examples. Trust me, I've feel safer every day on the job since I got on with a union company. There's absolutely no doubt about that.

 

The other thing is that the "Health and Safety Act" merely sets out minimum standards. Often they don't come close to going far enough and in most cases, could be improved. I don't know about you, but when it comes to my safety, I'm not always satisfied just doing the minimum. Often they represent a compromise between maximum worker safety and maximum production. Unionized employees are able to hold the company to higher standards more effectively than a single unrepresented worker. Worker represented joint health and safety committees are the norm in every unionized shop I'm familiar with, and I never even heard the term health and safety committee until I joined a union.

 

It's not "propaganda"...its a fact.

[Fishnwire]

Fishnwire read what I said. GM itself is NOT blameless. Any company can make bad decisions. But a company making bad decisions can recover if it is not being choked to death by the burden of catering to a union. All big companies have overpaid execs, it's a fact of todays world. But the $$$$ they receive is nothing compared to what is doled out to the employees because of the union contracts.

 

 

I could just as easily speculate that GM could have continued to pay its employees excellent wages if their execs hadn't choked the company to death with so many bad decisions. Which one of us is right would be purely a matter of opinion.

 

You want to compare the "$$$$" the execs are paid and what the workers do? The top execs often make 2000 times or greater what their average unionized worker makes. I wouldn't say that is "nothing compared to what is doled out to the workers." Also, I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm sure you don't have your pay "doled out" to you, that kind of suggests you didn't earn it. These guys earn a paycheck the same as me and presumably you.

[T Fisher]

As a union employee of 32 years I have to have my 2 cents of this debate. Walmart in my opinion is the evil empire. Do they have better prices? I would say yes. Do they treat there employees fairly? I'd say not, ask a employee that spent 22 years in a upper management position that had to make many people cry while walking out the door nuff said.

 

A union shop intitles a employee to work safely for a fair wage, be free from harassment by the company and it's managers. Now whats wrong with that?

 

If it were not for the inception of unions we all would be working for penny's not dollars. Frankly Canada is not a Somalia, Africa, or Russia unions keep it that way.

 

CEP LOCAL 27

[Whitespinnerbait]

When I worked for a non-union contractor I was expected to buy my own fall-arrest safety harness and lanyard or do without. .

It's not "propaganda"...its a fact.

 

 

So what ...

 

If you were really worried about your own safety ,why rely on the company to supply it ..Buy it yourself

[BITEME]

I despise any store that dumps masses amounts of offshore crap

its time to tell the powers that be to even out the score stop this crap of dumping all our jobs offshore and bring back the manufaturing here

I have been on a campain the last 10 years to avoid buying offshore crap it is hard but for me worth every extra cent I spend.

If you want to dump 50 million dollars of goods on our shores you need to buy or spend 50 million here

wake up we are eroding and it needs to stop

 

PS I avoid a certain blue and red store like the plague

Edited November 30, 2009 by BITEME.Esq

[splashhopper]

Are we about done with this?

 

I sure hope so... I mean.. heck... we only had two pages about the bus strike in London and the talk about the Union there

[Greencoachdog]

I think anyone who works for Walmart knows this stuff going in. You are not promised 40 work weeks and then only getting 24.

They follow the law. If you don't like the employment opportunities they offer go elsewhere.

 

 

DING DING DING!!! Give that man a cigar!!!

[Fishnwire]

So what ...

 

If you were really worried about your own safety ,why rely on the company to supply it ..Buy it yourself

 

 

Are you for real? Do you actually think you're making an intelligent argument there? You're clearly trying desperately hard to find some part of what I've said to pick apart, and if that's the best you can come up with, it should be obvious to you to stop trying.

 

Why rely on the company to supply it? Because they're worth several hundred dollars for one. Did you think they were free? Why would I feel better about my safety if I pay out of my pocket? I see the harnesses that these contractors wear...some of them are a decade old and ready to fall apart...that's because they keep using whatever they have because they don't want to spend the money. If I was being paid as little as them, I wouldn't want to either. Secondly, if two companies have workers doing the same job, and one expects its workers to supply their own harness or do without while the other company (in part due to union demands) makes harnesses mandatory and supplies them at no cost to it's employees....it's not hard to assume which company is serious about safety and which one must of us would prefer working for.

 

Are you really trying to tell me you needed to have that explained to you?

[Headhunter]

Having previously negotiated benefits or wages, does not automatically entitle you to those same benefits/wages, at contract renewal time... that is why they call it contract renewal!

To my mind, unions are another way of spelling entitlement.

During my college years, I was a summer student working at Ford, and a paying non member of the CAW (summer students could not become union members, but had to pay dues)

I can't tell you how many times I was told to slow down because "when you go back to school, they're gonna expect me to do as much work as you and well, I'm just not prepared to do that". These are also the first guys to be ready to walk off the job or strike.

In my world, everyone should be on commission... where you are paid for your accomplishments.

In the last ten years of my recollection, I have been in Walmart twice... once to buy jigs, another to buy an egg Mcmuffin.

HH

Edited November 30, 2009 by Headhunter

[danbouck]

Are you for real? Do you actually think you're making an intelligent argument there? You're clearly trying desperately hard to find some part of what I've said to pick apart, and if that's the best you can come up with, it should be obvious to you to stop trying.

 

Why rely on the company to supply it? Because they're worth several hundred dollars for one. Did you think they were free? Why would I feel better about my safety if I pay out of my pocket? I see the harnesses that these contractors wear...some of them are a decade old and ready to fall apart...that's because they keep using whatever they have because they don't want to spend the money. If I was being paid as little as them, I wouldn't want to either. Secondly, if two companies have workers doing the same job, and one expects its workers to supply their own harness or do without while the other company (in part due to union demands) makes harnesses mandatory and supplies them at no cost to it's employees....it's not hard to assume which company is serious about safety and which one must of us would prefer working for.

 

Are you really trying to tell me you needed to have that explained to you?

 

A lot of companies require you to supply your own safety gear. It's the same as supplying your own tools, not a big deal! If you are serious about your career then you would have all the equipment needed for that job.