Twocoda Posted September 20, 2009 Report Posted September 20, 2009 I've seen my share of scofflaws and have given up trying to talk to them, to inform them they are breaking laws. Even if I DID carry a cell phone, do you really think the Ministry is going to drop everything, and IMMEDIATELY dispatch one of their finest, with lights & sirens, to the scene? Their closest representative could be several hours away. And those kids OBVIOUSLY knew the laws well enough to stay up on the LEGAL side of the dam, and not venture into the pool full of fish below! While down in the park, I ALSO observed (1) People throwing lit cigarette butts into the shrubbery along the path. Thats called littering. (2) Carrying, drinking from, then throwing away, a beer can. Littering, and illegal consumption of alcohol. (3) Two people's dogs taking a big dump along the path, that they never cleaned up after. (4) A car comes speeding into the parking lot, at least doing 30 - 35 klicks, nearly running over a nice friendly Lab . . running loose! These are all violations of various laws, that took place right in front of me . . . . which ones should I have informed they were breaking the law? And what do you think the responce would have been? What do you think the response of a half dozen teenagers, to ONE ol' guy, going "tsk, tsk, tsk . . that's naughty, AND illegal?" Over the years I've taken enough abuse, from trying to advise people, who are clearly breaking laws . . . or calling in with full information on some of 'em . . . NEVER seeing anybody show up. There are people (aka law enforcement personnel) who draw from $50,000.00+ salaries per year and are highly trained to oversee this . . . and why do ya think they are armed? As far as introducing race into the picture, you can bet there'd be a lot more negative responses if these guys were carrying the dreaded 'white pails!' I did what I felt was the most prudent thing I could think of . . . I KNOW the Conservation Officers monitor these boards, perhaps they'll send a couple over for a look . . . and MAYBE somebody will alert the parents of these kids as to what they were up to. Walk a few miles where I've tread in the past, BEFORE ya start rippin' strips off me for acting in a responsible manner, and doing what I felt best suited the situation! And if I took MY kids in a candy store when they were small, they would NEVER have stolen (yes, 'sampling' IS stealing) ANYTHING, they were taught NOT to steal by ME!! Have a nice day. all the violations you posted in your response is my case and point ...MNR ,OPP and city cops cant be everywhere all the time ( i wonder if this is why there are speed limit /stoop and scoop/no littering signs etc.. posted throughout the country as reminders) a friendly verbal reminder to a bunch of kids that are doing something wrong wouldnt have hurt anyone ....i dont see any 9mm weapons on these kids so i dont think even if a armed authority that could have showed up would have the need to unholster his/her weapon... Im a Caucasian and i own two "white pails" ( which are converted to carry my most used steel lures for downrigging) i would be more then happy to make you one to accommodate your lures if you so desired but your insinuation again i feel is shameful ( sorry for your train of thought ) i hope you didnt pass your values on to your candy purchasing kids.... you have apparent respect through out this board from people and im dillegently looking for a reason to do the same so no strips have been ripped off you by me Thank you i WILL have a nice day and i hope you do as well
Dozer Posted September 20, 2009 Report Posted September 20, 2009 Those kids should take a ride down the ladder... But hey, these kids are smart and some day, some will say... "hey, remember how retarded we looked fishing up top of the ladder, we were nothing but a bunch of goofs!" Live and learn.
River Rat Posted September 20, 2009 Report Posted September 20, 2009 I suppose this is a better past-time than hangin' out & smokin' dope, eh actually, we fish and smoke dope at the same time in the villa......... add 15 years to thier age and put a float rod in thier hands and that picture looks just like Burts Dam, the Oak, Thornberry, Caledonia....Pulaski.....you know how many guys I see running pom poms and 14ft leads, popping every drift ? If you don't tell them now, and show them how to really cathc fish in a pool, they grow into what you see out there on every river on any given day ....just with more expensive equipment. The local CO in Bowmanville is Mitch Phinny, call the TIPS line and ask for his cell....they will give it to you. He will get you to send the pics to him. He patrols that area in the bushes and stuff taking pics himself. No doubt he already knows those kids. Venting on this site won't do anything about the problem, ....do something about it. RR
Toronto_Angler Posted September 20, 2009 Report Posted September 20, 2009 Damn kids stay off my lawn!
crappieperchhunter Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) Well however a person handles a situation is up to them. Everybody has there own comfort zone. For the people here that tore a strip off Photoz...I can only say this. I have fished on the ice with the man. As well as the rivers and even had him in my boat several times. I can't think of any individual that I have fished with who shows more respect for the environment, and the fish he is after. He is also one of the first people to offer help or advice to anyone fishing nearby who might appear to be new at the "game". Steve is a stand up guy who I am happy to call a friend. BTW Photoz....perch season is JUST around the corner....PM me if you are in for a road trip up Orillia way. Edited September 21, 2009 by crappieperchhunter
Sawyer Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 its my opinion that if you didnt say anything to these young kids ...you are just as much to fault as they are....YOU are the responsible one and the one they look to for guidance...if you seen them playing with a loaded gun ....would you just watch and take pics with the hopes of posting it on "rotten dot com" seriously ...you should have said something ...if you do not educate them its obvious thier parents are not fisherman or they would have....yes kids will be kids and they will get away with something until told otherwise by a responsible person ( shame on you) also shame on you for trying to introduce a racial scenario ....( that irks me ) boys of this age will be boys of this age regardless of the colour of their skin ...you were responsible enough to tattle on these kids to this forum ....making yourself apart of the problem and doing nothing to become a part of the solution ...pipe up and be responsible ...with a warm heart ...take the time to educate them ......you may just find they will listen you take a kid to a candy store ...do you seriously think he isnt going to eat any when left alone ? Twocoda - what an angel you are. If I didn't know any better, I would have thought you were the all mighty righteous guru on this board. Knowing what you know now, after seeing these pictures - I expect you to drive over there and grace these children with your presence and guide them to be the stellar angler that you exemplify. As for introducing the racial scenario, what I believe photoz was trying to do is show that some folks from all backgrounds do in fact, break both the law and accepted norms in fishing practices. Photoz - you're a good man, don't let Mr. Righteous get the best of you. Mr. Righteous - have a wonderful evening and I look forward to seeing you at the dam giving your educational talk.... -Sawyer
Twocoda Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 Twocoda - what an angel you are. My wife and mother both agree with you If I didn't know any better, I would have thought you were the all mighty righteous guru on this board You dont know any better cuz you thought wrong and my wife and mother agree with me ( now were tied 1-1 ) Knowing what you know now, after seeing these pictures - I expect you to drive over there and grace these children with your presence and guide them to be the stellar angler that you exemplify. If i was at the dam i would have given my input to these young lads and im confident they would have learned something for the better ...should the day come that I am fishing at the goodyear dam ....i EXPECT you to be there with a camera so you can document how to nicely teach kids that dont know any better to actually be better.. As for introducing the racial scenario, what I believe photoz was trying to do is show that some folks from all backgrounds do in fact, break both the law and accepted norms in fishing practices. Unless you have the ability to read minds....i believe that you believed wrong ...but i hope you are right cuz then he was only making a jab at the mentality of the people on this board for being racists ...either way its confrontational so why introduce it ? Photoz - you're a good man, don't let Mr. Righteous get the best of you. If you happen to read all my posts regarding this subject ...im sure you will see i never said at any point he was/is a bad man... i merely said shame on him and i still mean it Mr. Righteous - have a wonderful evening and I look forward to seeing you at the dam giving your educational talk.... Save the righteous remarks for the ice fisherman ...they can walk on water...i dont -Sawyer
splashhopper Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 Naw w w w . . . . what would be the point? I have learned over the years when to keep my mouth shut & when to open it. I wasn't about to make a 'citizen's arrest' and at their age, in a group of about 7, they could get very brave! What does irk me though . . . if this was a group of non-whites, or of an obviously ethnic background, or non-Canadians . . . . I'll bet there would be a lot more reaction than "boys will be boys!' That was my point, more so than the snagging right at the exit from a fish ladder. What would YOU do if you caught YOUR kid doing this? As some one that is married to a visible minority your "point" is valid and appreciated. The only disappointing part of this report is that you didn't call the MNR. However, you could send them the pics you posted here and let us all know the "outcome" of that.
limeyangler Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 As some one that is married to a visible minority your "point" is valid and appreciated. WELL SAID SPLASHHOPPER! Good on ya photoz for making a very valid point/observation.
Photoz Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Posted September 21, 2009 Hard to believe . . . . we got through a very 'touchie & controversial' subject with a minimum of 'flaming,' not long after someone was asking about why people got their hackles up at each other so quickly on this board? The majority of comments & opinions I saw here & on a similar thread were quite intelligent, AND informative. I had been very hesitant to even say anything, but felt the photos might raise the awareness of what goes on in 'snaggin' season.' Personally, I'd rather see a salmon go home to someone's table that see it rotting on a stream bank. BUT . . . . if we tolerate the illegal methods of taking salmon . . . where does it stop? Ling? Bowfin? Trout? Pike? Musky? And many more. I thank EVERYBODY, whatever your opinion happened to be, for stepping up and making it known.
Photoz Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Posted September 21, 2009 As some one that is married to a visible minority your "point" is valid and appreciated. The only disappointing part of this report is that you didn't call the MNR. However, you could send them the pics you posted here and let us all know the "outcome" of that. I really hate to rain on your parade, but I can tell you right now what would happen if I'd called the MNR . . . . NOTHING! Since those kids were leaving when I did, there would be no point. All the pictures show is a bunch of kids fishing on the legal side of a dam. You cannot see the hook in either fish in the pictures, so it boils down to MY word against the word of 6 'cherubic l'il angels? ' I'm quite certain that the MNR ain't about to put up 'WANTED' posters all over Bowmanville to apprehend 'em? Not trying to be snide, but I've spent my share of time on the phone, writing letters, with pictures, all to no avail. What it boils down to and what the Crown Attorney has to consider . . . . Is there a reasonable chance of convicting these people on the evidence I am being offered?' In this case, a resounding "NO!"
tightline Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 I find it amusing that the people on here get so wound up about the fact that a seemingly friendly/kind old boy didn't kick off his shoes and run into the water after these youngsters...I'm a 6' 200 pounder who once thought that too was the duty of every Canadian to stand up for our laws and protect our fisheries without hesitation...Until 1 day...I was fishing in Marie Curtis Park, it was the end of the day and as I was heading to my car noticed an Oriental man maybe 35-40 yrs sitting on the bank with 4 poles in the water...I approached the man and explained to him what he was doing was illegal...He informed me that he had a friend in the bathroom and he was watching his poles as well...I waited...sure enough he was...So now there was 2, I again tried to inform them that it is illegal to fish 2 lines in the water at one time where I was quickly responded too with not so friendly a scowl and a few very loud and confusing words in there language...I was sure they weren't praising me for the help when they both stood up and got in my face...As they screamed and ranted (some of which I understood most of which I did not) I knew I was in trouble...little did I know how much...Along comes another man of what I expect the same race who greeted me with a shove...The whole incident started out as me trying to educate these guys on our laws had just turned into a felony assault...As I tried to defuse the situation simply by saying I was only trying to help in letting them know that the fines can be extremly costly and there liscense would be revoked I heard the 2 words that ended it all..."no liscense, no liscense" I knew immediatley I was waisting my breath and that a call to the ministry was in order...I walked over to there car to take down the plates and get a pic when I was blindsided with a punch that landed on the back of my ear followed by a kick to my groin from the other gentleman...I regained my "composure" as hard as it was and was walking away when they continued to yell and follow as one of them got closer I let him have it...now I don't condone what I did but I was scared and it is Toronto...but one punch clearly let them know I was no longer going to be on the recieving end of their brutality and I was now the one in control of the situation...A man who is now a good fishing buddy every time I hit the T-dot...had called the police when he saw the punch and kick happen and they were on the way...The two were caught just exiting the park...You know what happened NOTHING!!!!!!!!!! The officer would not do anything saying in a situation like that it is best to MIND MY OWN BUISNESS....I informed him of the assault and he told me it was my word against theres and in court they would end up throwing it out for lack of evidence....I was mad, frustrated, and insulted to the point I got in my car and left without filing a report...Those kids in the pic look young enough and small enough right, like I said I'm 6 foot and 200 pounds and was only 27 when this happened...the 1 man that pushed me and the 2 that attacked me were no bigger then any of those boys...I understand your situation and think the only thing you could have done was put a call in to the ministry regardless of what you thought the results would be...it IS the right thing to do...posting here was also the right thing to do because now it is out there and has made all of us aware of the problem...I suggest to you people who think that confrontation is the right way to go do it with care and caution and never alone...Trust me the end results could be much more then a bag of frozen peas on your boys for a couple days....CALL THE NUMBER and let the proper authorities deal with them as they are trained to do...I commend you Photoz...Great thread!!!!!
Dutchy Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 Tightline is right. ^^^^^^ You never know what people will do when they are confronted over something they are doing, especially when they likely know they shouldn't be doing it. As someone else pointed out, these kids knew not to fish below the dam. Its amazing what five or six 15 years olds can do when they are angry or scared. Moreover, you don't know if someone is packing a knife or worse. There is a reason CO's carry guns.
aniceguy Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 What a controversy.......how come only the rivers have these controversies......god bass dont have these issues ever.........
blaque Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 What a controversy.......how come only the rivers have these controversies......god bass dont have these issues ever......... due to the fact, in part..........that these fish become cornered, easily spotted, densely populated, just plain trapped in situations that make them easy pickens for those that want to target them illegally. Alot of times these fish have no where to go, and as you can see in the pictures, you can walk right up to these pools full of stacked fish and have your way with them if you wished. You wont see this with other species and other types of bodies of water. Or i should say you see this the most with salmonoids. River run fish in large dense populations, limited to holes and alot of times, stopped at a dam. Its like shootin fish in a barrell
aniceguy Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 Blaque I was exuding sarcasm on it lol
bigfish1965 Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 We need a sarcasm smilie I think...
Greencoachdog Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 We need a sarcasm smilie I think... I try to use this one for that!
JohnF Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 I try to use this one for that! Jeez. I thought that was the innocent sincerity look. JF
StoneFly Posted September 21, 2009 Report Posted September 21, 2009 (edited) due to the fact, in part..........that these fish become cornered, easily spotted, densely populated, just plain trapped in situations that make them easy pickens for those that want to target them illegally. Alot of times these fish have no where to go, and as you can see in the pictures, you can walk right up to these pools full of stacked fish and have your way with them if you wished. You wont see this with other species and other types of bodies of water. Or i should say you see this the most with salmonoids. River run fish in large dense populations, limited to holes and alot of times, stopped at a dam. Its like shootin fish in a barrell I think their sheer size is probably a lure also ( no pun intended lol), not too mention that it costs $6-7 for one salmon steak at the grocery store. Now we all know there is no comparison to whats in the grocery store and whats in the river,..but my thought is the snaggers do not. Im not advocating what I have done in the past regarding snaggers, but it ranges from education to offering to land their fish which I do and then promptly release it, to tangling my line intentionally, to cutting lines with my scissors. I generally wont call MNR or police as I know they will do nothing. Edited September 21, 2009 by StoneFly
Mike the Pike Posted September 22, 2009 Report Posted September 22, 2009 OMG.But like PhotoZ says at least there not smoking dope.I had no idea this was so visible and so easy for folks.
canadadude Posted September 22, 2009 Report Posted September 22, 2009 There just kids, doing what the little buggers do best " get into trouble" we all did crap when we were young probably alot worse then this. I would have yelled a few obseinities at them threatened to call the law and that alone would have probably solved the situation. I know when I was young messing around an old man cursing at me and threatening me with the police ussually got me the heck outa there. Even if you know the cops won't show, those little buggers would think they'll be aressted in 2 min hahahah
ehg Posted September 22, 2009 Report Posted September 22, 2009 They are pretty young, a good talking too from parents or CO would put a few off. The thing that bothers me more are the dudes in Simms waders with float reels and the best equipment 'flossing' for these things. Sometimes serious steelheaders will sharply pull there lines at the end of a float drift hoping to snag a follower that could be eyeing there roe. Kinda akin to snagging as well... I suppose this is a better past-time than hangin' out & smokin' dope, eh actually, we fish and smoke dope at the same time in the villa......... add 15 years to thier age and put a float rod in thier hands and that picture looks just like Burts Dam, the Oak, Thornberry, Caledonia....Pulaski.....you know how many guys I see running pom poms and 14ft leads, popping every drift ? If you don't tell them now, and show them how to really cathc fish in a pool, they grow into what you see out there on every river on any given day ....just with more expensive equipment. RR
blaque Posted September 22, 2009 Report Posted September 22, 2009 Blaque I was exuding sarcasm on it lol wheres the "dont i feel like an idiot" emoticon lol i guess this one will do
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