Cool this summer? arctic sea ice melt 3rd highest

[holdfast]

What? The water is Rising because of melting ice. Lets see, I have a glass of water with ice cubes, when they melt, will I have my glass overflowing. Humm, interesting.

[holdfast]

Didja call me a Redneck?

 

No, but is that a Bad word??????

[danbouck]

What? The water is Rising because of melting ice. Lets see, I have a glass of water with ice cubes, when they melt, will I have my glass overflowing. Humm, interesting.

 

 

I tried this theory with rye and coke but I ended up with just ice in the end every time

[danbouck]

No, but is that a Bad word??????

 

I hope not. People call me that all the time.

[chinookhunter]

i get called a redneck all the time when i go fishing.

[Pigeontroller]

Whats that old saying, "Its better to keep your mouth closed and be assumed the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt".

 

Sure applies to several of the above posters...

[alctel]

That's the thing with pacifists. If you disagree or challenge them, when backed to a corner, they first revert to name calling, and if that doesn't work, the Human rights or other forms of litigation. The Red necks, well, just laugh it off. LOL

 

Noone has called anyone names so far? Except one person called me Al Gore

 

What? The water is Rising because of melting ice. Lets see, I have a glass of water with ice cubes, when they melt, will I have my glass overflowing. Humm, interesting.

 

This is correct - ice has a great Volume than the equivalent water volume, but most of the Ice isn't in the sea - its on the land in the Arctic and Antarctic. When it melts enough to fall into the sea, the sea levels rise. You can check this by looking back in history - as the glacial mass increased, the sea level lowered and vice versa.

[scuro2]

That's the thing with pacifists. If you disagree or challenge them, when backed to a corner, they first revert to name calling, and if that doesn't work, the Human rights or other forms of litigation. The Red necks, well, just laugh it off. LOL

I don't think you have "challenged" anything. There has been a fair bit of mocking. But actually talking issues has not really been attempted, that is unless you believe the ice in a glass of water jokes were an attempt at discourse. I'd love to see some intelligent debate about recent data and I hope you contribute.

 

Here's a bit more info to move that discussion along.

http://www.seed.slb.com/v2/FAQView.cfm?ID=1166

When the ice cube melts, its volume changes, but its weight is conserved (law of the conservation of mass). So the melted water from the ice cube has exactly the same weight as the water that was displaced by the ice cube when it was frozen -- therefore the volume of melted water fits exactly in the previously displaced volume -- and the water level stays the same.

 

Note that this argument applies only if the ice cube is made of the same water as the water that it is floating in. This is true, for example, with the Arctic ice pack, which is made of frozen sea water. However, it is not true for Antarctic icebergs, which are blocks of fresh-water ice from the continent that are floating in salt-water sea. In this case, we must take into account that the salt water is denser than the fresh water. The fresh-water iceberg still weighs as much as the weight of the displaced salt water, but because of the difference in density, the volume of melted fresh water will be slightly greater than the displaced volume of salt water -- so when the iceberg melts, the water level will rise, although the difference is very small.

 

What would cause sea levels to rise significantly would be the melting of ice packs on land. The water flows off the land into the water, adding volume. And one of the biggest chunks of ice would be on Greenland. Recent analysis on that issue here -> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009...-climate-change

Edited September 8, 2009 by scuro2

[Radnine]

Whats that old saying, "Its better to keep your mouth closed and be assumed the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt".

 

Sure applies to several of the above posters...

 

Hey, that Muskies Canada sounds like a great bunch of guys, a real laugh riot. Where can I join?

Sarcastically yours,

Jim

[Pigeontroller]

Hey, that Muskies Canada sounds like a great bunch of guys, a real laugh riot. Where can I join?

Sarcastically yours,

Jim

 

 

I don't remember this thread being about Muskies Canada...SarcASStic Jim

[Guest gbfisher]

levels all depend on how many boats are in the water.

[holdfast]

Noone has called anyone names so far? Except one person called me Al Gore

 

 

 

This is correct - ice has a great Volume than the equivalent water volume, but most of the Ice isn't in the sea - its on the land in the Arctic and Antarctic. When it melts enough to fall into the sea, the sea levels rise. You can check this by looking back in history - as the glacial mass increased, the sea level lowered and vice versa.

Ahh I see, now all I can think of now, WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE RUNAWAY. No lets just pay a higher taxes. Thatll save the world. Boy am I ever glad I dont live in the Netherlands, Id be stressed.

[holdfast]

I don't think you have "challenged" anything. There has been a fair bit of mocking. But actually talking issues has not really been attempted, that is unless you believe the ice in a glass of water jokes were an attempt at discourse. I'd love to see some intelligent debate about recent data and I hope you contribute.

 

Here's a bit more info to move that discussion along.

http://www.seed.slb.com/v2/FAQView.cfm?ID=1166

When the ice cube melts, its volume changes, but its weight is conserved (law of the conservation of mass). So the melted water from the ice cube has exactly the same weight as the water that was displaced by the ice cube when it was frozen -- therefore the volume of melted water fits exactly in the previously displaced volume -- and the water level stays the same.

 

Note that this argument applies only if the ice cube is made of the same water as the water that it is floating in. This is true, for example, with the Arctic ice pack, which is made of frozen sea water. However, it is not true for Antarctic icebergs, which are blocks of fresh-water ice from the continent that are floating in salt-water sea. In this case, we must take into account that the salt water is denser than the fresh water. The fresh-water iceberg still weighs as much as the weight of the displaced salt water, but because of the difference in density, the volume of melted fresh water will be slightly greater than the displaced volume of salt water -- so when the iceberg melts, the water level will rise, although the difference is very small.

 

What would cause sea levels to rise significantly would be the melting of ice packs on land. The water flows off the land into the water, adding volume. And one of the biggest chunks of ice would be on Greenland. Recent analysis on that issue here -> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009...-climate-change

 

Ahh the Jesus freaks Links!!!!!!!!!!!

Your global warming is proving to be a myth, however the Al Gores and the likes will not debate the subject. Gore is a Populist and not a scientist anyways. Too bad that the schools got horny and started showing the the movies to our kids before there was even a debate. I would concentrate on our water pollution than the world ending because the ice is melting. Like I said, a myth, you can pay any so called environmental taxes because of this scare tactic, but not icky Bob here isn't. By the way, why bring this up, oh I get it, you smell an election. Oh here we go again. NA HA HA HA HA What a joke, you are quoting a story by THE UNDERGROUND WEATHER NETWORK a wonder-blog by DR Whatever his name. come on now. Didn'T your Daddy teach you not to believe everything on the Internet. For that matter Newspapers, and the CBC. hey Pigeon Troller, your not getting sucked in, are ya. Ha Ha Ha Get a load of his links

 

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/1622..._Global_Warming

http://www.taxpayerblog.com/2008/05/32000-...al-warming.html

Edited September 8, 2009 by holdfast

[Twocoda]

Ahh I see, now all I can think of now, WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE RUNAWAY. No lets just pay a higher taxes. Thatll save the world. Boy am I ever glad I dont live in the Netherlands, Id be stressed.

 

 

wonder if ill get a discount on my land taxes if the property is underwater...

Edited September 8, 2009 by Twocoda

[scuro2]

Ahh the Jesus freaks Links!!!!!!!!!!!

Your global warming is proving to be a myth, however the Al Gores and the likes will not debate the subject. Gore is a Populist and not a scientist anyways. Too bad that the schools got horny and started showing the the movies to our kids before there was even a debate. I would concentrate on our water pollution than the world ending because the ice is melting. Like I said, a myth, you can pay any so called environmental taxes because of this scare tactic, but not icky Bob here isn't. By the way, why bring this up, oh I get it, you smell an election. Oh here we go again. NA HA HA HA HA What a joke, you are quoting a story by THE UNDERGROUND WEATHER NETWORK a wonder-blog by DR Whatever his name. come on now. Didn'T your Daddy teach you not to believe everything on the Internet. For that matter Newspapers, and the CBC. hey Pigeon Troller, your not getting sucked in, are ya. Ha Ha Ha Get a load of his links

 

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/1622..._Global_Warming

http://www.taxpayerblog.com/2008/05/32000-...al-warming.html

 

I'm not sure what you are really getting at. Al Gore isn't a Jesus freak and the links were to non-christian websites. The blog does have an unusual title. My brother, who is an amateur meteorologist, introduced me to it. If you take a look at the resume of the person who wrote the article, he is no slouch. http://www.wunderground.com/about/jmasters.asp If you think about it, how could you have an underground weather network? I think the title is all a little tongue in cheek. Jeff Masters is very insightful and brings information to the webpage that one doesn't see elsewhere. For instance that fact that the north pole is actually slowly tilting away from the sun during the summer, and that the ice sheets should be spreading...was news to me. http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMaste...l?entrynum=1310

 

Your links really don't add anything to the original point. I have no problem accepting that there are scientists who disagree with the viewpoint that there is global warming. But how do you explain the record ice sheet melts at the north pole? I've posted each year, over the last three years on that point. Each of those years were records, or had other highly significant events happening at the north pole. No one really wants to discuss that issue. They want to mock the idea of global warming, or they post stuff that has nothing to do with this particular issue. In the end the thread gets locked because people like yourself try to draw out emotional responses by taunting people. Do you actually have an opinion on the melting of the ice cap?

Edited September 8, 2009 by scuro2

[holdfast]

Yea and the magnetic north pole is slowly moving towards Russia. So, are you gonna Panic.

Edited September 8, 2009 by holdfast

[holdfast]

Yea and the magnetic north pole is slowly moving towards Russia. So, are you gonna Panic

[alctel]

Ahh the Jesus freaks Links!!!!!!!!!!!

Your global warming is proving to be a myth, however the Al Gores and the likes will not debate the subject. Gore is a Populist and not a scientist anyways. Too bad that the schools got horny and started showing the the movies to our kids before there was even a debate. I would concentrate on our water pollution than the world ending because the ice is melting. Like I said, a myth, you can pay any so called environmental taxes because of this scare tactic, but not icky Bob here isn't. By the way, why bring this up, oh I get it, you smell an election. Oh here we go again. NA HA HA HA HA What a joke, you are quoting a story by THE UNDERGROUND WEATHER NETWORK a wonder-blog by DR Whatever his name. come on now. Didn'T your Daddy teach you not to believe everything on the Internet. For that matter Newspapers, and the CBC. hey Pigeon Troller, your not getting sucked in, are ya. Ha Ha Ha Get a load of his links

 

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/1622..._Global_Warming

http://www.taxpayerblog.com/2008/05/32000-...al-warming.html

 

Your link - the petition is called the Oregon petition and was created by a Christian fundamentalist, Dr. Arthur B. Robinson, a biochemist (not a climate scientist). The second and third authors were Drs. Sallie Baliunas and Willie Soon of Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. Both of these individuals have strong ties to the George C. Marshall Institute which is a front for oil companies and business interests. The majority of those 17,000 signatures were unable to be confirmed since it was just a name, and not even an institution, had a lot of duplicates, and a bunch of people were put on their who didn't agree with what it had to say, and were unable to get their names removed. This is what I meant earlier by lobby groups trying their hardest to cloud the issue.

 

The general scientific agreement in the natural sciences is that the earth is heating up far far quicker than it should by natural processes.

 

I agree with you about tackling water pollution, the thing is water pollution, climate change etc are all parts of the same tree - its about reducing the waste we put into the air, the water and the earth - all these things will lead to healthier lives for humans and the animals and fish we hunt, which can only be a good thing. And really - no one has anything to gain by making up a 'climate change myth', people hate taxes generally, and hate being told to change their lifestyles, and every politician that has stuck their neck out about this has got horribly punished. Oil and Gas companies have a lot more to gain by discrediting the whole thing than other people have to gain by promoting it.

 

We have to get off of fossil fuels at some point soon anyway, so may as well start as soon as possible and get rid of some of that smog as well!

 

wonder if ill get a discount on my land taxes if the property is underwater...

 

Probably not - on the plus side your submerged house would make great structure for bass

 

Yea and the magnetic north pole is slowly moving towards Russia. So, are you gonna Panic

 

The magnetic poles are supposed to switch places at some point in the far future, that'd be interesting! I bet it would screw up a lot of migrating birds though.

Edited September 8, 2009 by alctel

[holdfast]

Your link - the petition is called the Oregon petition and was created by a Christian fundamentalist, Dr. Arthur B. Robinson, a biochemist (not a climate scientist). The second and third authors were Drs. Sallie Baliunas and Willie Soon of Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. Both of these individuals have strong ties to the George C. Marshall Institute which is a front for oil companies and business interests. The majority of those 17,000 signatures were unable to be confirmed since it was just a name, and not even an institution, had a lot of duplicates, and a bunch of people were put on their who didn't agree with what it had to say, and were unable to get their names removed. This is what I meant earlier by lobby groups trying their hardest to cloud the issue.

 

The general scientific agreement in the natural sciences is that the earth is heating up far far quicker than it should by natural processes.

 

I agree with you about tackling water pollution, the thing is water pollution, climate change etc are all parts of the same tree - its about reducing the waste we put into the air, the water and the earth - all these things will lead to healthier lives for humans and the animals and fish we hunt, which can only be a good thing. And really - no one has anything to gain by making up a 'climate change myth', people hate taxes generally, and hate being told to change their lifestyles, and every politician that has stuck their neck out about this has got horribly punished. Oil and Gas companies have a lot more to gain by discrediting the whole thing than other people have to gain by promoting it.

 

We have to get off of fossil fuels at some point soon anyway, so may as well start as soon as possible and get rid of some of that smog as well!

 

 

 

Probably not - on the plus side your submerged house would make great structure for bass

 

 

 

The magnetic poles are supposed to switch places at some point in the far future, that'd be interesting! I bet it would screw up a lot of migrating birds though.

 

And then there is this letter to the senate from the Former Boss of NASA debunking the Global Warming. I think it might have more relevance than, The Seed, or THE UNDERGROUND NETWORK

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fus...ed-ecd53cd3d320

Why do you think they call it Climate change NOW.

[Ramble]

The Americans are the last group you want to listen to for matters of the Environment... unless it's independent research. Not that Canada is much better when the gov't gets involved.

 

It's climate change DUE to an INCREASE in AVERAGE global temperatures.

 

 

 

Here is some other sources. Hope someone will find some useful info on these sites.

 

http://www.polarfoundation.org/www_science...amp;category=14

 

http://www.pewclimate.org/global-warming-basics

 

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/climat/home_en.htm

 

http://www.ccdcommission.org/

 

 

 

Climate change is as real as male patterns baldnes.

 

 

-Dave

Edited September 8, 2009 by Ramble On

[Chris]

Quicke....everyone stop what you're doing and run to the hills.......run for your lives....the world is ending, the world is ending............

 

How many of you global warming/climate change experts have stopped driving your gas guzzling SUV's towing your gas guzzling motor boats? Have you stopped heating your homes? Whether heating with electricity or gas or oil you are leaving a footprint. What about driving your car to work. C'mon, move closer to work so that you can walk and save the planet. And shut down all those computer networks that are draining electricity and burning coal-fired electricity generating plants. Oh wait, that's exceptable because we gotta work and we gotta play. Here's a better idea.....let's just raise taxes significantly and gouge the taxpayer even more......that will fix everything.

 

I guess if it's OK to call people who disagree with you "idiots" (as has been done by PT) I'll wade into the fray and speak my mind. Anyone who thinks this is all about climate change/global warming is an idiot. This is all about draining what's left of the taxpayer's disposable income. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. And there's an old saying that goes "A fool and his money is soon parted". Only problem is the fools will cause the rest of us to pay also. Sad, very sad.

[bushart]

I think that Scholar George W. even finally admitted to this issue.

 

I normally don't post paintings I've done in thread replies...this time it fits

 

I painted this after learning of the polar bear plight----Story behind is---I drown the mother bear and had the cub using it for a life-raft

 

Maybe a tad hokey but I'm not stopping other artists painting the beauty of a coal-fired generator at sunset either.

 

 

 

[Spiel]

Amazing Story Behind the Global Warming Scam

[aniceguy]

interesting thread but its all worthless.

Positive or negative on the issue of global warming for or against it.

 

The bottom line is while we can debate its merits short of trying to lower our own personal carbon footprint there is nothing we can do about it

[POLLIWOGG]

The star had an article on climate change and the part that caught my eye was that we don't know what causes the ice to melt so it must be greenhouse gas.

 

A guy had what I think is a simpler explanation.

 

Every rain drop and snow flake has to condense on a particle, this particle can be pollen dust or whatever is floating around in the air. In the last couple centuries there has been a lot of suit from burning coal going into the air and with the natural air flow finds its way to the arctic. with snow forming on coal dust we end up with darker snow cover not the blazing white that makes you go blind from reflected sunlight. Not reflecting sunlight creates heat and at some point we reach a threshold point where the snow melts, the melting snow leaves behind all the dust and crap that was in it and this absorbs more sunlight causing the melt to speed up.

 

If you want to know the sea level after the icecap melts just dig up that old map of Antarctica without the ice on it or better still checkout where the tree line was on Ellesmere I.

 

Thousands of people die every year from air pollution but nobody cared so maybe they jacked up the threat of climate change in an effort to save lives, unfortunately in the debate on climate change the people dieing every year have been forgotten.