Car problems

[Headhunter]

Hey folks,

I have a 2000 Olds Intrege that is having some fairly difficult problems. Here's what we have been dealing with.

Most of the time the car starts, probably 95% of the time. However, some times and it has actually only happened when my wife has it, it simply won't. What I mean by that is she will put the key into the ignition and nothing. Does not turn over, no dash lights nothing. Wait 1/2 hour and try again, it starts! Rolls over and everything is fine.

I thought maybe a bad started so I had it replaced. No, a couple of days later, same problem. I took it to my local mechanic who thought it it was an ignition problem, specifically to do with the security system. As he is not an expert, he suggested I take it to a dealership. I did. They could not replicate the problem. The "expert" at the dealership said he could not diagnose the problem, unless it was doing it while he had it.

He suggested we try a new key, his feeling being that the ignition system was not recognizing the key and the security system was locking down the car.

Well, the new key worked for about two weeks. I just got a call from my wife, it's dead again.

I am about to go flippin postal!!!!!!

Anyone out there have any ideas or suggestions? I have inquired about having the security system disabled, but apparently that is not something that can be done.

Appreciate your thoughts folks!

HH

Edited July 6, 2009 by Headhunter

[Roy]

A shot in the dark here Joe but if it only happens when your wife uses the car then I suspect that she is doing something different. Two first things I'd check would be that the shift be completely in Park. The second thing I'd check would be that the steering is unlocked by turning it slightly.

 

It just sounds like too much of a coincidence that it would only happen to her.

[alphaalpha]

i've had a bad battery do some weird things on me, might just need a new one.

[Bernie]

Joe, I suspect it's the ignition switch assembly. Have done about a dozen with the same symptom.

[Headhunter]

I agree Roy, but she is the main driver of the car. I only drive it on weekends, I drive the Jimmy every day.

I'm pretty sure that the problem is the car's secruity system, but no one has been able to replicate the problem in a shop situation. I have already taught my wife about making sure the car is in park.

When it fails to start, everything that could allow the vehicle to start and run is disabled. The radio works, the lights, but nothing that allows the car to start will work.

Thanks for trying though!

HH

Edited July 6, 2009 by Headhunter

[Headhunter]

alpha alpha... I've had the battery and charging system tested, nothing wrong.

Bernie, the tech at the dealership felt the same way, but also suggested that the security module might be flawed. Replacing either is a very expensive solution. Problem being, if I replace the ignition system and the security module is the culprit and vice versa... well you get the point.

Bernie, is this a common problem for these cars? You know that I hold your opinions in the highest esteem... any other thoughts or should I simply get a new ignition system.

Thanks all!

HH

[Raf]

does the car come with a neutral/park safety switch? have her try starting the car in neutral (with foot on brake)

Edited July 6, 2009 by Raf

[Headhunter]

Raf, I tried the neutral start and the same result... the car is completely disabled.

HH

[fisher]

Did you check the terminals for the battery? If they are corroded they could be not making good contact.

[ketchenany]

Joe, I had mine shut down (jeep) nothing, the alarm would go off and fade, It turned out to be dirty battery post! The alarm wasn't getting enough juice and would shut the system down. It may not help but it's worth a look!

 

Let us know what it was when you find out.

[Headhunter]

Thanks to all so far.... I've had the entire battery and charging system tested, the battery is 6 months old and the terminals are clean.

The car is now sitting at the dealership and I have updated the C.S. rep as to the history and problems. They are going to have it for atleast a couple of days.

Bernie, I'm pretty sure your correct... but again, I'm trying to only change out one expensive part, rather than two.

The ignition system assembly or and god forbid, the security module.

I'll update ya when I learn more.

Thanks,

HH

[cranks bait]

Not sure if this is related or not? My buddy has an old Caddie. When it rained it would not start. It turned out that the little tab on the side of the key was worn just enough that it couldn't make contact with the hummidity. It drove hom crazy for years. I do not know if your heys have this tab, but if it did I would suspect that. Especially if your wife and you have different keys and hers is worn more? Just a thought.

[SlowPoke]

Hey Joe,

This happens quite often at work and it's usually the ignition wiring harness corroded; different makes and models. On some of the trucks adjusting the tilt steering will get you going; on others, a good slam with your forearms on the steering wheel will jar it into submission. I know it's not a fix but it could help you in a bind.

-Brian

[dannyboy]

Probably the first thing you checked but:

Is there a starter relay in the system, separate from the starter?

Had a similar problem in a Tempo, give the starter relay a whack and it would work a couple times, replaced the relay and no more problems.

 

Dan

[Headhunter]

Thanks guys....

Slowpoke... the key cylinder is in the dash, so moving the steering wheel, although an excellent thought, won't help! Trust me, I have given the area a few "love taps", to no avail.

Dannyboy... I'll try and explain a little better, my bad btw, ... when the car won't start, virtually every aspect of the car's electrical system is dis-engaged. I believe that the car thinks it's being stolen (I wish!!!) and disables all systems associated with the engine and driving. As I mentioned, I had the started replaced and the entire starting system checked out perfect.

Cranksbait... I had a new key made and programmed for this ignition system, so I don't think the key is the issue.

Thanks again to all and please, feel free to throw stuff out there...

HH

[Bernie]

There is a list several pages long on the auto tech network I belong to on this problem.

Most all agree the switch is the issue.

The switch is $200 bucks and about an hour to replace.

[Flyboy]

I concur with Raf's suggestion on a possibly defective or sticking Shift Lock switch. My car behaves the same way occasionally. The symptom can be replicated by having the car on a very slight uphill incline likes 5 degrees or so. The incline is small enough for the car not to roll forward to engage the contacts of the Shift Lock switch, and not enough momentum for the car to roll backward "down hill". The perfect example is a wheel rut/indentation on a level parking lot or driveway.

 

My remedy is usually leave the car in Park, release the parking brakes, and put the shoulder to the 'A' (windshield) pillar and push so the car rolls forward slightly. You might hear a click when the contacts on the Shift Lock engage. The car should starts like normal. If this doesn't solves your problem, you have bigger issues

[DanD]

There is a fairly easy way of confirming whether the hall effect generator in the passlock ignition switch is a fault. Passlock is the trade name for this years anti theft system in GM’s.

Have the techs install a bypass resistor to the wiring harness’s white and yellow wires of the hall effect generator that is in the ignition switch. This is the same resistor that they have to install for auto start systems. Nobody will tell people that’s what they have to do to fool the module; allowing the vehicle to run without the ignition key being turned in the lock assembly. The anti theft module is looking for a specific voltage drop coming out of the ignition switch as its being turned; if it (the module) doesn’t see this voltage drop; it may shut down the starter but usually it just shuts down fuel; so I'm not sure this is your problem?

All they have to do is measure the resistance value with an ohmmeter across the white and yellow wire during a good start. The anti theft portion of the lock assembly has its own three wire wiring harness coming out of the ignition switch; white, yellow and black wires.

Then go to almost any electronic store and buy a resistor that has the same resistance value; connect it to the white and yellow wires at the ignition switch or the module; this will by pass the switch’s portion of the anti theft. If the problem disappears you know the lock if at fault; if so leave the 50cent resistor connected and forget the anti theft.

 

Now no body give me any crap by posting this; because any thieves worth a grain of salt already knows this. LOL

I have a lot of customers that have these older vehicles and when given the choice of a 2 or 3 hundred dollar switch or a 50 cent resistor; guess which one they want.

 

Dan.

[Bernie]

The switches on these vehicles were poorly made. I suspect they were made by the same people that made power window switches for Montana and Venture vans and the emergency/signal flasher switches for several GM products.

The ignition switch for these models is kept in stock by my local AC Delco supplier as they are a fast mover.

What I have discovered in the past is the contacts inside the switch can go open circuit. It could be one of several which can create different symptoms.

So bypassing the antitheft system likely isn't going to help in this case.

[Headhunter]

Firstly, many thanks to all who replied to this thread! You folks are shining examples of this fine community.

The work has been done and little surprise to those who know, but Bernie was once again correct.

Thanks Bernie! Armed with the information you provided here and through PM's, the dealer dropped their price on the part by about 40%!

So, with a little luck, we should be good to go, until the next thing, that is! LOL

HH

[aplumma]

You have always been my hero Bernie. I am very happy that you are just a PM away to answer all of my auto questions. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with all of us.

 

 

Art

[Roy]

Yeah! What Art said.

[sonny]

Should work for ya,,like bernie said,,,i have changed many of them in the past for the same problem,,,only once did i ever get it to act up in the shop,,

[Bernie]

Glad it worked out OK Joe.

Good guess eh?

[Headhunter]

BERNIE for PRIME MINISTER!!!!!!!!

Actually, I like Bernie far too much to wish that on him!

HH