Silo Buster Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I find it interesting, that in the midst of all this chaos, Toyota is opening another mfg plant in Woodstock Ontario.[/color][/size][/font] I live about 15 miles north of the new plant.I wondered if something was going on.They've excavated waaaaay more land than what was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAzing Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 If the North Americans would stop building junk vehicles that last like the imports, get fuel mileage like the imports, were as nice to drive as the imports, Maybe, just maybe they would sell more vehicles. I have owned Chevy's, Ford's and Chryslers as well as Honda's and my Honda's have all been much better vehicles than the American's. And guess what They are built in Canada by Canadians!!!!!! Let's just say I've owend dozens of North American cars and trucks and the only lemon I got was a corean car with a bowtie on it. I was so desapointed in the salesman that he's never getting another sale from me. We lost our shirt on that car as it was leased and we had to pay the balance owed to get rid of it after a year in and out of the shop. Now my wife drives a Cobalt while she's paying for a loaded Impala. As well with all the used cars I've owned the worse one was a Toyota tercel that I had 1 year left to pay after the engine blew. So that was my first and last import. Sure some on the imports are now built here but that's because to many over here are buying them. But where do you think the money is going? As for fuel economie you need to check the GM line as it has dozens of fuel efficient vehicles that compare or beat the imports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Hoo boy. Dozens eh? Not a lemon huh? ya......Well OK. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Ford plant in Brazil. Here is a small video that will open a lot of eyes to what is going on, this will never happen in either the U.S or Canada, UAW nor the CAW would not allow it. I must agree with a lot of the post's in this forum to allow the Big Three to go Bankrupt, and i also agree that to allow this will have major consequenses on an already recession bound Province. $30 to $35 dollar per hour jobs for unskilled workforce, note i did not say uneducated, 95% of wages when layed off, pensions most would die for and Benifits that are outrageous i believe that they pay .35 cents per perscription at the drug store....would this happen to be in anway related to the problems that these Companies find themselves in right now. Here is a bit of a break down of costs at the Big Three from a study done last year, Labour costs, wages and benifits at Ford amounted to $70.51 an hour, or roughly $141,000 a year with overtime. GM was $73.26 per hour--$146,000 per year. Chrysler, $75.86, amounting to $151,000 annual salary per worker. I worker at General Electric in Peterborough for 38 years were a skilled trade in most jobs was needed, Machinist, Millwright, Toolmaker, Armature Winder, Industrial Electrician, etc, when i retired in 1998 i ended my carrier in Quality Control another shilled trade, and my wage or pension at that time was no were what is being paid at the Big Three. And i also believe that we are seeing Descrimination of uncontrolable magnatude against all the 77,000 worker who have lost there jobs in Ontario and who will never see a penny from the Provincial or Federal Govt. If this situation was put to a referendum we all know what the outcome would be. God Bless Canada, come on spring, come on Carp Fishing. Link to video http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189 Cheers for now Rodpody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammercarp Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I have listened to this stuff about autoworkers having it too good. I wonder how you would feel if somebody from outside your work enviroment told you that you make too much money, that your pension was too generous or that your benifits package was too good for you. Do you know that the big 3's sales force outnumbers their labour force. That's right more people make a living selling cars than making them. I don't hear any complaints about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pguzik Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I would just like to say that Ford is the number 1 North American made vehicle as far as parts manufactured. Also I wanted to say that Toyota is #2. So I will kindly say that your 3 GM vehicles should be replaced with something other than imported vehicles. Buy North American made If only the majority of North Americans got their heads out of their butts years ago and stop buying the imports we would not be in this kind of trouble. 700 more layoffs coming up in January. It was easy to see that this was coming no mater what the general economie is doing, if you don't support the major industry of your country you're selling out. Now I'm going to get stuck trying to figure out what import I'll be stuck buying when I'll want to replace my 3 GM vehicules. To all you import supporters, thank you very much on my part ( to me it's just a vehicle choice ) but think of all those you've left jobless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pguzik Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Just thought that I would ad to this quote by saying that North America is the #1 buyer of the motors that Japan is taking off the roads. They only allow about 40,000 kms per engine. By the way, it strikes me that not so long ago Japan introduced legislation requiring cars to be OFF the road after a period of time (think it was 3 years) - a planned obsolescence - and built in engine for the marketplace - I am pretty sure it was introduced as part of a emissions control measure ...not sure this is the answer but it is important to understand that the producers are only one side of the equation ... the consumers (and the parameters around their consumption) are at least as important in it. Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Just watching some of the experts talking about the quoted wages for the auto company employees on TV yesterday, there is a certain amount of agreement they are misleading. The retirement pay and medical costs of all the retired Auto workers are included in those figures. There was a bit of a discussion of the pension cost now hitting them, because congress here didn`t require them to properly fund their pension plans. Also the fact that we don`t have them same type of medical coverage as Canada. The minimum wage in Brazil is around 250 bucks a month. The auto workers there make between 500-900 dollars a month and get around 900 hours training from the company, so some education is needed. Could you live on 500-900 a month? You know where the profits wind up. Just gets to the question if you will be happy seeing your jobs out sourced by your politicians until your wages reach the level of some of the 3rd world nations? Their governments seemed to have failed them. Congress here is fond of passing legislation and not properly funding said measures, eg. social security, medicare, other pet projects move to the front of the line over time. Never owned a foreign car and never a lemon, only 2 new cars, pretty good with a wrench at one time so my cars were what I expected and fairly priced for what I got out of them. Politicians spin things, the root cause in their opinion is the housing crisis and loans made to people that couldn`t afford them, you have to consider, if you lose your job and can`t find another, can you keep your home? Like 2 million jobs will be lost here this year alone, and figures aren`t entirely accurate, actual number is higher, and the replacement jobs found by many pay much less, with less benefits, a downward spiral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I have listened to this stuff about autoworkers having it too good. I wonder how you would feel if somebody from outside your work enviroment told you that you make too much money, that your pension was too generous or that your benifits package was too good for you. You're right - it wouldn't feel very good, and most of us don't really know what we're talking about.....BUT, they're asking us to pay for them, so its fair. At end of day this is a few hundred bucks out of my pocket....likely more if there are subsequent payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singingdog Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 It's fairly obvious that the big 3 just don't know how to do business in a modern economy - an economy that is not going to go away no matter how much hand-wringing folks do. Is that where we should be putting our money? Do we really want to nurture companies like this? I certainly don't. Do I want to take care of workers that, through no fault of their own, have ended up in a dire situation? Yes. I see these 2 things - bailing out incompetent businesses, and taking care of workers - as 2 completly seperate issues. If we are going to invest billions of dollars into something, lets invest it in the people and in industries that have proven they are going to do business in a sustainable way. Do another kind of math. Take the bailout $ that the big 3 are requesting, and divide it by the number of workers that the big 3 have. With that kind of per capita investment, incredible packages could be developed to transition, retrain, workers and develop innovative industries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clampet Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 ...We need to become personally accountable for the value the free market will pay for our products & services. Each of us need to develop skills & intellectual property that are not easily off-shored .. We are a fortunate to have one of the brightest & healthiest populations in the world. .. Therein lies the key to success! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoz Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Over the past 40 years I've owned over 2 dozen new cars, about 2/3 of them domestics. The 2 VERY worst lemons being an '84 Sunbird (in late '83 you literally had to BID on an import) which I had 9 months before it threatened to bankrupt me, and I traded it (gave it away?) for an '84 Corolla. (My first clue I had a 'Monday car,' I hit some bumps while driving it off the lot . . . . BOTH FRONT WINDOWS FELL DOWN INSIDE THE DOORS!) Even worse was a '78 Dodge Aspen, which I paid about $3200.00 to buy, and $3900.00 to fix in the year I had it! My 2004 Grand Caravan started to 'self-destruct' last summer, it was either start piling major money into it, or start over? I now have a new Montana, which at 3000+ kilometres needed new wiper blades . . . . the original ones were leaving streaks . . . I was told this was MY fault, as I'd admitted using some vinegar/water mix to try to clean the blades . . . it 'ate' them? After nearly a half hour of heated discussion, with an 'advisor,' service manager, then sales manager, I was given a new set, but only as a 'goodwill gesture!?' It was MY fault for NOT scraping dead bugs & flies off the glass, that had dried on? THIS was what had chewed up the rubber? Just one more SMALL reason I'll NEVER buy domestic again. I bought this van for well under $20,000.00, instead of a Toyota, Nissan, or Volkswagen, for several thou more. (Support your local auto manufacturer?) Like somebody else suggested . . . I should rush out and buy ANOTHER Pontiac, so I'll have spare parts to scavenge once the 'BIG 3' go bankrupt, and leave me and that great warranty high & dry! Should my tax dollars be used to fund the 'BIG 3' bigshots executives as they jet around the country . . . . NOT A CHANCE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAzing Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I would just like to say that Ford is the number 1 North American made vehicle as far as parts manufactured. Also I wanted to say that Toyota is #2. So I will kindly say that your 3 GM vehicles should be replaced with something other than imported vehicles. Buy North American made I guess you just didn't get what I was saying, because of all the North Americans buying imports we're going to lose the Big 3 and will have no choice but to buy imports. I mean I'd have no problem buying a dodge or even a Ford before buying an import. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 You're right - it wouldn't feel very good, and most of us don't really know what we're talking about.....BUT, they're asking us to pay for them, so its fair. At end of day this is a few hundred bucks out of my pocket....likely more if there are subsequent payments. Well Cram, since you seem so generous, you can hold your pocket upside down and shake a little harder and pay my couple hundred bucks out of YOUR pocket, and ya, I believe you fall with the bounds of your first sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clampet Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 ...The 2 VERY worst lemons being an '84 Sunbird ..and I traded it (gave it away?) for an '84 Corolla... If you look up the reviews on the Toyota Corolla's, it is amazing how the owner's have nothing but praise for these cars. The earlier models looked like thin cheap cars, but it goes to show you cannot judge these cars on appearances. Many of the earlier models are still on the road today. Many smaller communities, have no idea what they are talking about when they refer to these vehicles as "Jap Scrap". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clampet Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Can you get these type of car owner reviews from a NA vehicle? http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/toyota/corolla/1992/ Corolla DX 1.6L 4AFE 3spd North America 879 words Excellent No-Bark Underdog In Search Of More Bite!!! Corolla GLXi 1.6 Ecuador 547 words A bullet proof car that feels solid when driving and is built to last Corolla GTi 16v 1.6 UK and Ireland 358 words A brilliant sports/family compromise car Corolla LSX Select 1.6 4 Gasoline North America 350 words Outstanding reliability and high fuel economy = a very happy owner Corolla GTi 1.8 4A-GE 4 cylinder Multi-valve Australia and New Zealand 290 words A perfect choice for a first car enthusiast looking to modify the vehicle to the maximum Corolla GTi 1.6 UK and Ireland 248 words This car is cheap. reliable and a lot of fun 1 comment Corolla DX 1.6 North America 225 words Reliable and cost efficient =) 2 comments Corolla Super Windy 1.3 16v twin cam Zimbabwe 203 words Well she's called Super Windy by her maker for a reason..1992 never looked better either Corolla DX FWD 4-cylinder 5-speed North America 179 words We call our car Emerson, and we love it! Corolla LSX 1.6 EFI North America 173 words Reliable, inexpensive, and a bit of fun Corolla XL 2.0 diesel Netherlands 159 words 425.000 kilometres trouble free transport 3 comments Corolla SE-G 1.6 DOHC Indonesia 149 words Reliable and durable Corolla Base 4Dr Sedan 1.6L 16v North America 141 words Seems like a solid little tank, just what I seek Corolla LXi Estate 1.3 UK and Ireland 141 words Very good small estate Corolla 1.6 SE-G 1.6 DOHC 4A-FE Indonesia 138 words Long lasting 2 comments Corolla DX 4 cylinder 1.6 4AFE North America 137 words I will die before the car will! 1 comment Corolla FX GT 1.6 Australia and New Zealand 133 words A great, reliable little performer that is surprisingly well appointed Corolla LE North America 132 words Corolla LSX 1.6 4A-FE North America 119 words Superb, would recommend it without body damage Corolla DX 1.6L 4 cylinder North America 109 words Reliable small car 1 comment Corolla glxi UK and Ireland 109 words Very well built car Corolla GLi 1.3 petrol UK and Ireland 107 words Excellent build quality and reliability Corolla GTi 16V 1.6 petrol UK and Ireland 86 words 1 comment Corolla DX 1.8 North America 84 words I love it! 1 comment Corolla Wagon North America 72 words Amazing car Corolla Gli 1.3 16v Twin Cam injection pet UK and Ireland 71 words Corolla LX 1.3E Romania 70 words A real friend on four wheels!!! Corolla North America 64 words I give it an A- 1 comment Corolla DX V4 North America 62 words The corolla will not last 3 comments Corolla xli 1.3 petrol Iceland 55 words Ugly and rusted 2 comments Corolla North America 53 words Very reliable daily driver 1 comment Corolla DX 1.6 EFI North America 48 words Corolla XL 1.3 UK and Ireland 40 words Fun, reliable, cheap! Corolla DX North America 39 words Greatest car I ever owned!!! Corolla LE 1.6 4A-FE North America 37 words Great car for a tight bugdet. Corolla GLi 1.3 UK and Ireland 18 words Good value for money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoz Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I had to pay about $250.00 OVER FULL LIST for that Corolla, and almost give them the Sunbird . . . it was still a bargain . . . used it as a courier vehicle 3 years . . . . 300K+ on it . . . . just oil changes, brakes, tires and a few other normal wear & tear items. I'da loved to have picked up a new Sienna this year . . . but the equivalent to my Montana . . . about $7,000.00 more . . . . as it's looking now . . . . it may have been the better deal? If the 'BIG 3' do go under . . .. I wonder what happens to all those great warranties we bargained for . . . your G. M. / Chrysler / Ford quits . . . . ya just put 'er up on blocks & let the ol' hound dawg use it for a house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clampet Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 My last new NA vehicle was a 2000 Ford taurus. The tranny went at 18 thousand kilometers, fortunately it was covered by warantee, but I got rid of it before the year was up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carp-starter Posted December 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Since people are comparing cars, I will inform you all about my old Honda clunker. Date bought – May 1996. This makes it – 12 years and 7 months. Exterior appearance – it looks like brand new and there is NO RUST anywhere. Mileage – 178,500 km or 110,918 miles. What I have done to the car? I have done the standard and normal maintenance like oil changes and etc. Muffler replacement This was replaced in the spring of 2006 – more or less 10 years. Went to Mr. Muffler and I got a figure of $500.00 plus tax. I bet you that the cost would have been higher by the time all was completed. Then I called 3 Honda dealers (Burlington, Oakville and Mississauga) and I got 3 different costs. Since I was not getting anywhere with the dealers on the phone, I went to the one in Oakville. I do not know why but they suggested I go to this small (tiny) place at Dorval and Speers and I was informed they do a good job. So, I did. Their estimated and guaranteed cost was $250.00 plus tax. The funny thing is that the small place did not replace what Mr. Muffler was going to replace. I got 2 small pipes replaced. When done, I asked as to how long the pipes would last because in the past, the pipes did not last many years. I was told that they would last because they are stainless steel pipes. My muffler nor the big tail pipe were not replaced because they both were stainless steel. New battery replacement It was replaced in January 2006 – close to 10 years. It probably would have lasted a bit more but I did not fel like going outside on a very cold night to run the car - at 2:00am. Brakes I had to replace the pads on the front brakes once – I do not know the date. It was done around 100,000 km. My EX used the brakes often because she liked to speed. She would accelerate even though the light at the next intersection was already RED. After having my regular maintenance done, I was informed that I have to replace the pads on the front brakes. The back brakes are still the originals and they are still OK. This is at 178,500 km or 110,918 miles. I would say – “not bad”. New tires I put on new set of tires in April 2008. I would say that this is good. So, I have no reason to get rid of the Honda. I bet you that most American cars would not be able to match my Honda in quality. Or am I wrong – I did say “most American cars?” I am guessing but I believe my Honda will be with me 10 years from today. carp-starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Well Cram, since you seem so generous, you can hold your pocket upside down and shake a little harder and pay my couple hundred bucks out of YOUR pocket, and ya, I believe you fall with the bounds of your first sentence. huh?? not following you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azanier Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I bet you that most American cars would not be able to match my Honda in quality. Or am I wrong – I did say “most American cars?” carp-starter I remember back in '95 when my parents were looking to buy a Ford Windstar minivan. I can also remember people who supposedly knew about cars telling them that Ford's were pieces of garbage. That minivan ran with no problems up until last year when it finally started to rust. At the same time though I knew someone who bought the exact same car (make/model/ year) and had nothing but problems with it so sometimes it all depends on the luck of the draw. Also, I found this photo essay on the "ruins" of Detroit....interesting stuff http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29...1810098,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I wouldn't waste time comparing who had the best running car.. EVERY company produces lemons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoz Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Hm m m m m . . . interesting photo array . . . . Toronto 2015? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomcat Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 1. The credit crisis wasn't the cause of the problems with the Big Three - it just highlighted the blight that's been there for years. 2. I don't support bailing out the Big Three and I've written my MPP to let him know my opinion. Everyone here should write their MPP, regardless which side of the fence you're on. 3. Sales staff in dealer showrooms make no where near the amount of money assembly line workers make nor do they have anything near the same benefit package. That's why we're not discussing auto sales staff. 4. There's a good possibility that one or more of the Big Three could declare bankruptcy even after US and Canadian handout loans - and then we the taxpayer really get screwed. 5. The CAW website indicates in their membership profile that 13% of its 250,000 members (or 32,500 workers) work in the major auto industry in Canada. A $6 billion bailout in Canada equates to approx $185,000 per auto worker. Obviously, there's other options than bailing out the Big Three. 6. The video on the Ford Camacarie plant in Brazil was excellent and a sign of things to come. Canadian auto workers should be getting ready for new careers as should others associated the Canadian auto industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Also thought the pictures were interesting. A reminder that there are places in most cities the visitor and convention bureaus would rather you didn`t see? Monuments to excess that went up faster than they will ever come down? The rise and fall of the Auto empire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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