Bojangles Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 (edited) I will not edit my pictures as I think pictures of mothers natures beauty are just as deserving of praise... perhaps we should start editing the backgrounds of Owl pictures too.... just so NOONE else can photograph them... understand what I am trying to convey? Not really, I don't understand what you are trying to convey. I really wanted to come up with a post like this so I can get this whole 'photoshop' thing off my back. I have alot to say for a 17 year old.. but I'll 'try' to keep it short. First off, who would photoshop pictures of owls? Do they count as fish? Do people hunt for owls? What do owls have to do with fishing? Owls are just birds that fly around and we do no harm for them, unless you are awfully stupid by slingshotting a few in the wild.. Who the HECK would photoshop pictures of owls? Honestly? Like.. whats the point? The only pics that are photoshopped are ones that regard to Steelheading. Take a look back over the past few years and see how Steelhead numbers have been dramatically dropping, I wonder why? It all has to do with pressure these days on fish, especially with Steelhead where most of our rivers along the shore of Lake Ontario are close to urban settings and spots are very easily accessable by all kinds of people, many which do fish for tablefare (not saying its wrong, as long as you are within your legal limits keep as you wish, but please release for the future, especially for a fragile fishery for fish such as Steelhead). Ever since the age of the internet, with a click of a button you can access information to rivers, lakes, and what species they hold. Along with that, you get to see the real deal, such as SPECIFIC spots and backgrounds which are very recognizable, and also, HOT BAITS?!? The internet had a big impact on why fish numbers in some bodies of water are dying off, and the increased numbers of anglers on certain bodies of water. You think only those who are registered as 'members' to this site can see the reports? I guess not, think again. I bet there are 100's of 'lurkers' who just type in ontariofishing.net into their browser and see whats biting and where so they can go and have their share of the action leaving with a few fish in the white bucket. Ever wonder why your spot is crowded the next day around Salmon season after posting a report up here or somewhere else where it is easily accessable by those who aren't members? Take a look at the Ganaraska River in Port Hope, one which many of you know of. The returns of Steelhead are dramatically dropping, not because of natural die off, or because they all bunched up and spawned in other rivers, or maybe because they took a swim to the United States, it's because of anglers and angling pressure and all the fish that are being thrown up on the banks and tied to stringers. I'm not saying its wrong to keep fish, but if this keeps happening.. what are we gonna have in the future? This is from the MNR. Take note that 2003's run had 4,345 Steelhead shoot up the ladder.. not very many compared to the years before. Look at the decline in all the years from 1988. See what internet has done? Of course many experienced anglers could get into facts such as poor habitats, poor spawning grounds, increase in water temperatures, etc, but this is half the story. Mankind has and still will be destroying our fishery. This IS the reason why many steelheaders today photoshop their photos because most spots are easily recongizable and they recieve alot of pressure. Out east, tribs are close and a short drive away from eachother. One doesn't produce, you move onto the next one. It works like that until you hit fish. This is why CC takes pictures of his steelhead on the mudbanks, in the water, on grass, or of him holding them with very little background at all. WHAT REALLY TICKS me off is when I run into a 30 year old person and older persons on the river and they begin to talk and brag about how 'good this river was years ago' and how they used to 'pound the snot out of them'.. and I love their closing statement which goes along the lines of.. 'whats happening to these rivers these days'.. a few drifts later if they manage to hook one it goes home. I'm cool with that. I wonder why fishing is not so good these days? Seriously. Don't get me wrong, do not think that this 'photoshop' rule only applies to Steelhead, look at heavily fished Walleye and Bass places aross Southern Ontario, they recieve ENORMOUS pressure from all over the place. Urban settings like SNAG's Pike reports can recieve pressure with the snap of my fingers on a given day, its just not right. Leave your photos as you wish, it is up to the POSTER to decide how he wants his or her pictures up in public. If you don't enjoy viewing photoshopped pictures, don't look at them and click the 'back' button on your browser, unless you have something nice to say. When the fishery dies in heavily fished areas locally in Southern Ontario.. don't come to me and ask me why there are no more fish anymore.. Keep your limit.. go ahead.. I honestly don't care. I feel more sorry for those who put their money, time, and backs into helping our fishery today. Thanks for those who help out. Remember, a true sportfish's enemy after 16'' of growth is mankind. Limit your catch! Thank you for taking the time to read and understand this post, Bojangles.. and that was my RANT of the midnight.. goodnight.. gotta get up for school in the morning.. Edited January 22, 2007 by Bojangles
bigfish1965 Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 I understand your point, sir. But don't blame angling pressure on the lack of returns. You will notice your return drop offs are in direct correlation to the stocking reductions. All the introduced salmonids are in the same boat. I personally don't have an issue with people masking the backgrounds. I think some people just think a simple blur would be more appealing to them.
carll2 Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 first off everybody has to remember these rainbows and salmon were stocked they arent even native to the great lakes, dont get me wrong yes it sucks theres a decline but blame less steelhead or salmon number on the government not stocking as many fish nowadays.
Bob Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 (edited) At risk of sounding like an old dude, I'll tell you I fished the Ganny and Wilmot etc. 40 years ago and believe me when I tell you that when the fish were in and biting, word got around in a flash. Picture guys shoulder to shoulder and timing their drifts together so they didn't get tangled. The Sydenham at Owen Sound was an absolute madhouse when the trout came in back in the 60s. There were no salmon back then and internet wasn't even a dream yet. I have to agree with Rick, the lack of numbers is due to decrease in stocking numbers. MNR is getting out of stocking and leaving it to citizen groups who have fewer resources as far as money and manpower that the ministry used to have. I should add that there was no fish ladder on the Ganny then and the few fish that got upstream were netted below and lifted over the dam. Edited January 22, 2007 by Bob
dheitzner Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 I understand your point, sir. But don't blame angling pressure on the lack of returns. You will notice your return drop offs are in direct correlation to the stocking reductions. All the introduced salmonids are in the same boat. I personally don't have an issue with people masking the backgrounds. I think some people just think a simple blur would be more appealing to them. well put rick, there are many factors that are contributing to the decline of salmonid stocks
Gerritt Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 (edited) Bojangles, thank you for your reply concerning the PhotoShop thread, for a 17 year old you certainly have a great command of the written word. Rick is correct here however, the sharp declinnes you are seeing are a result of the MNR reducing their stocking program, Lack of Money, Manpower, or Lack of Interest??? Want to change your fishery? Lobby the Provincial Government to reintroduce stocking as a priority. As for my owl comment? believe it or not some of the amazing pictures shot and posted here have been hunted down albeit with a camara instead of a rod... Sounds foolish to photoshop a background to a picture of an owl doesnt it? That is my feeling towards some of the pictures here as of late.. Please dont take this post as a personal attack it is not meant to be such, Just stating my opinion. I should add there are less anglers in terms of License sales now then there was a decade ago. Gerritt. Edited January 22, 2007 by Gerritt
Clampet Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 Good point. The web has to have some impact.
Gerritt Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 HAHAHAHAHAHH!!!! now thats some funny stuff!!! LOL! Gerritt.
Rich Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 People should have the freedom to do whatever they like with the pictures they choose to share with the community. At least they are posting pictures, they could easily choose to not post reports at all.
aniceguy Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 (edited) interesting read, Well as one of the leaders of just such a non governmental organization and the largest one on Lake O pertaining to salmoinids maybe I can chime in on this. Stocking numbers have decreased, those numbers we see of the ganny are indicative of an overstocked fishery, not dependant on any natural reproduction. These days thats not the case. The MNR has developed the policy of sustainable fisheries, that are dependant on natural reproduction, not stocking. That being said what was in the 80's certainly doesnt apply today at all but yes they got very busy very fast those days. The rivers for the most part that do support natural reporoduction are at saturation level, by that I mean they are at the maximum production for fish. Bottom line man is the true problem of the fishery these days, for a fishery to be sustainable a 15% exploitation rate is required Lake Ontario is at 35% couple that with natural mortality of 35% also, hence a declining fishery, and if you think the 2 fish limit slated to come in will do anything, nope at best a 3% reduction in harvest and riperian restoration, forrest buffer reconnect, storm water managment , dam mitigation and the plethoria of other work cant get over the exploitation hurdle. In many respects Bojan is very correct and that anglers who do understand the gavity of posting on the www without paying due respect to the fishery do more harm then good. The fishery is in trouble still doubt me come by the craa booth at the fishing show and I ll gladly talk more about it with you. Now I look at the photoshop pics and I get a good laugh as the first thing I say is why even bother, a fish pic is about the fish the scenery etc... and if the need to photoshop it is required, for fear that the background shows then why bother as its done for no reason other then to show boat on the internet chat boards. I wrote an article for the getting hooked magazine a short while ago dealing with the internet angler and the concept holds true, the internet and such has shortened the learning curve by years and has introduced a new generation to the not so new but trendy center pin making angling success increase in order of magnitude , if you want to post pics I say great as I love looking at pics but really and honestly take a few moments, read some awsome sites on photo composition and click away every one will enjoy the pictures a lot more then some amateur photoshop rendition Edited January 22, 2007 by aniceguy
Harrison Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 (edited) Bojangles - I respect you passion for the sport. I was the same when I was 17 and during the peak runs. You wrote - "The internet had a big impact on why fish numbers in some bodies of water are dying off, and the increased numbers of anglers on certain bodies of water." I guess if you truly believe in the above statement there is a difference between a pic with your mug, a fish and the natural background. And one with your mug, a fish, and the arctic background? One being it might show locations crowding your areas? The later showing anglers that don't steelhead that they should be, but in all other areas only possibly yours? Seems like it is more effort to come on here and explain yourself and why you photoshop pics then it is worth, but then again, I don't know you. God love steelheaders... worse the muskie fishermen. lol Edited January 22, 2007 by Harrison
misfish Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 People should have the freedom to do whatever they like with the pictures they choose to share with the community. At least they are posting pictures, they could easily choose to not post reports at all. Interesting WHAT REALLY TICKS me off is when I run into a 30 year old person and older persons on the river and they begin to talk and brag about how 'good this river was years ago' and how they used to 'pound the snot out of them'.. and I love their closing statement which goes along the lines of.. 'whats happening to these rivers these days'.. a few drifts later if they manage to hook one it goes home. I'm cool with that. I wonder why fishing is not so good these days? Seriously. Wow that was a comment and a half. I think it,s just about covered that the system down there is a catch and take.Restocking has been a main issue for the Lake Ontario Tribes. Yes I will tell you back in the late 70,s earlly 80,s the brown trout fishing was AWESOME in the humber.The koho runs in the Credit were next to none back then as well.Saddly the biggest problem I seen on both rivers was the raping of the eggs and leaving the fish behind.Now theres something you might want to address. Photo cropping,well it has come down to that .
Pinch Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 Ever wonder why your spot is crowded the next day around Salmon season after posting a report up here or somewhere else where it is easily accessable by those who aren't members? In order for someone to identify a fishing hole by a picture that someone has posted, that person would have to have been to that spot a number of times. Ever been to a spot and its been empty? Is that because no one posted? Or maybe because people just didn’t get to go fishing that day. I think it’s a bit ridiculous to assume that a spot is busy because someone posts a couple of pictures on a website. This is from the MNR. Take note that 2003's run had 4,345 Steelhead shoot up the ladder.. Not very many compared to the years before. Look at the decline in all the years from 1988. See what internet has done? No I don’t really see what the internet has done, what I see is an increase in urban populations over the years, people wanting to escape the urban grind, MNR, the Ontario Tourism Board, and the government in general promoting the out doors way of life and activities, other organisations like OFHA promoting themselves more effectively and targeting a broader spectrum of people. Did you ever stop to think that maybe there are just more people taking up our fine sport?? When the fishery dies in heavily fished areas locally in Southern Ontario.. Don’t come to me and ask me why there are no more fish anymore.. Keep your limit.. go ahead.. I honestly don't care. Perhaps I may have missed the point of your ‘Rant’ because I was under the impression that you did care and that was the whole reason for your post. I also thought that the entire point of this Forum was for like minded people to have a place to meet and share each others wealth of information and knowledge.
bucktail Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 One reason that no one has suggested for the bad returns over the last 10 years is the water levels. If you go back and overlay annual precipitation with returns you will see a direct correlation. The 90's and early 2000"s were much drier then the 80"s and resulted in lower natural recruitment. The last 2 years have seen precipitation levels go back above normal so hopefully we will see an increase in recruitment! Still C/R is needed of course.
Beans Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 A couple of years ago I was talked into getting up at 03:00 AM to go salmon fishing in the Ganaraska river in Port Hope (my first and last time)...We set up in the dark down below the factories near the mouth of the river...as the morning light got bright enough I noticed some bubbles coming up from the bottom and then followed by a pile of crud...Cripes! we were fishing in a sewer...no wonder the poor fish weren't making it up to the fish ladder if they had to swim through that...and Lord knows what that would do to the taste of them...Yuck! We moved on to another stream later and all three of us hooked and lost three salmon each...kept hitting the quick release button by mistake... So just maybe polution is also to blame for the decline in numbers... Off topic a bit I know but, I have no problem with viewing cropped pictures or photoshopped ones, I've cropped a few myself to not show backgrounds of shared fishing spots...as requested !
Jigatollah Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 (edited) To suggest that the angling pressure is the reason for low river run returns is rediculous. I've fished the major rivers back when they were producing huge runs and each year the rivers change to erosion . The stocking cuts also don't help much and there are even a lot of fish that have been stocked into the lakes rather than the river and won't run up stream. If you don't like showing a picture with a back ground, take a photo looking down onto the water. This way only you standing in a river or a bottom of a boat is visible and keep the good photos for yourself. Moosebunk, I would have never known that was you.Too funny. Edited January 22, 2007 by Jigatollah
Joey Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 Hahahaha, good one Moosebunk, thanks for the laugh Joey
misfish Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 If you don't like showing a picture with a back ground, take a photo looking down onto the water. This way only you standing in a river or a bottom of a boat is visible and keep the good photos for yourself. Just like this one.You know it,s during ice fishing and theres the fish to prove the catch.Just need to attach a story to it. To funny bunk.
aniceguy Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 those 20k runs were a direct result of stocking, the rivers today, are at max capacity, a drop in stocking along side with exploitation rates does in fact equal todays fish population, the fluvial dynamics of rivers inherantly change, and fish adapt to that change with 35% harvest rates and 35% of natural mortality( although I bet a good percentage of that is delayed mortality due to mud shots and such) exploitation is the problem in the current state of affairs.
Jigatollah Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 Hey misfish, I recognize that snow.
dustink Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 Interesting read.... Thank God the cold weather finally came, I thought the Shack Nasties were never gonna happen!! ;-) C'mon Spring! dk
SHAD Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 I, myself, only my opinion here - think that someone holding a nice fish or any fish they caught and the background has been photoshopped is GHEY! I don't blame them for hiding the background due to the thousands of non-contrib info seeking lurkers on this poor site but I just wouldn't post that pic. I don't have photoshop or other programs but even if I did, any pic's posted on this site would look like this: Or this: Now, those fish were not caught in lake ontario and there are no fish in lake ontario so bugger outta my spots
Headhunter Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 Hey Shad, I recognize that botton strucutre on the Brownie shot.... HH
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